Reusse: Sano has some growing up to do

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Do you know what linebackers are? C'mon now.

Anthony Barr: 6'4", 255 lbs, 24 years old.

[tobi0040]

From 18 to 31, Fielder has added 30 pounds

 

Sano was 195 as a 16 year old.  230 as a 17 year old (according to BA).  And now is 270 as a 22 year old, while only adding an inch in height from when he was 17. 

 

I don’t think people that are concerned how he will age are crazy.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/prospects/rankings/organization-top-10-prospects/2011/2610961.html

 

http://www.perfectgame.org/players/playerprofile.aspx?ID=117246

[tobi0040]

 

Anthony Barr: 6'4", 255 lbs, 24 years old.

 

These guys are completely cut and in phenomenal shape.  The Twins would not be expressing concern if Sano had the same makeup, we are really kidding ourselves if we think they would.  Or frankly, if Sano was in the DR the entire off-season and showed up in came looking like Anthony Barr, we also would not hear a peep.

[twinsnorth49]

 

Do you know what linebackers are? C'mon now.

Bud Dupree, 6'4" , 269, age 23, LB.

[TheLeviathan]

Yes, Sano is not chiseled. But since when does "not chiseled" = "lazy"?

[tobi0040]

 

Yes, Sano is not chiseled. But since when does "not chiseled" = "lazy"?

 

I never said lazy.  Just that I have concerns about how he ages and I dont think guys known for drive like MJ would be in this position, as big as he is, concerns about his weight from the team or media, etc.

[laloesch]

 

Are you a doctor/expert or nutritionist?

 

First off: 25% is basically obese, which Sano is not.

Second off: I sit between 11% and 13% BF. I can assure you not everyone in the 10-15% range is approaching six pack territory, all people and their bodies are different as well. I too make a terrible OF as well

 

If Ryan said he is 15% why wouldn't you take him at his word on that?

 

 

I don't need to be.  Just look at a BMI chart for a 6'-4" man.  Plus i'm 6'-5" and played three sports in high school and went on to play basketball in college, so yeah i have an idea on the subject.  

 

But no sweat, nothing personal, never was meant to be. And my mistake that you didn't post the 15%.  I'll i was doing was pointing out an OBVIOUS miscommunication that was being perpetuated with each message in this thread and a number i've seen thrown around in these forums.  We should all be saying 25% BMI.  BY the way 25% is not obese, it's upper end normal to slightly overweight.  if he was 30% then he'd be obese.

 

I'd actually be more worried if he was 11-15% BMI as that would be unhealthy for a man his size doing what he's doing.  If your at 11-13% body fat you have to be careful with your nutrition, because you could easily start burning muscle mass.    

[laloesch]

 

From 18 to 31, Fielder has added 30 pounds

 

Sano was 195 as a 16 year old.  230 as a 17 year old (according to BA).  And now is 270 as a 22 year old, while only adding an inch in height from when he was 17. 

 

I don’t think people that are concerned how he will age are crazy.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/prospects/rankings/organization-top-10-prospects/2011/2610961.html

 

http://www.perfectgame.org/players/playerprofile.aspx?ID=117246

 

 

I absolutely agree.  As someone who was similar sized in highschool, I'm 6'-5" now at 35 years and about 220 lbs..  In highschool i fluctuated between 175-225, but i was constantly running around playing football, tennis, soccer and basketball at different points and put on weight mostly in football because i had to.  

 

Now the dopers were able to do it in dramatic fashion, but they were dead giveaways with all the body and facial acne outbreaks, as well as the crazy rate they added muscle.  

 

It's pretty obvious that Sano is a very eager eater, and he probably has self discipline problems at the table.  He has put on A LOT of weight (and most of it is not muscle) in six years.  For him to be 270 lbs. at age 22 is WAY WAY too heavy.  Could be big trouble down the road for him.

[TheLeviathan]

Muscle weighs more than fat, quit getting hung up on the damn number. It's why the Twins are smartly worried about body fat not weight.

[tobi0040]

Muscle weighs more than fat, quit getting hung up on the damn number. It's why the Twins are smartly worried about body fat not weight.

I just want him to play 3B or in the OF until he is close to 30 and play it at least adequetely. That seems like a reasonable expectation but as of right now, I would be surprised if he is not a 1B or DH in 1-2 years. Molitor is already talking about him getting 40 games there this year "on the high end".

That would be a signed SS to a DH in 7-8 years, 4-5 of which were in the minors.

[DaveW]

 

I just want him to play 3B or in the OF until he is close to 30 and play it at least adequetely. That seems like a reasonable expectation but as of right now, I would be surprised if he is not a 1B or DH in 1-2 years. Molitor is already talking about him getting 40 games there this year "on the high end".

That would be a signed SS to a DH in 7-8 years, 4-5 of which were in the minors.

Well, he should be playing 3rd base as of right now....but of course he isn't.

 

People need to stop with the "Sano was signed as a SS", from the very minute they signed him they knew he would outgrow the position and they never considered him a SS, they said he was a 3B/1B type prospect.
 

The Twins paid for his bat, not some pipe dream that he would be a SS.

 

 

[twinsnorth49]

http://i0.wp.com/paleozonenutrition.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/155-lbs-before-and-after.jpg?resize=300%2C286

 

Sano's weight only matters if he lacks muscle, which I see no indication of. This whole thing is ridiculous and misinformed.

[laloesch]

 

http://i0.wp.com/paleozonenutrition.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/155-lbs-before-and-after.jpg?resize=300%2C286

 

Sano's weight only matters if he lacks muscle, which I see no indication of. This whole thing is ridiculous and misinformed.

 

Why are you posting this?  It's not accurate at all.  She easily weighed 30-40 lbs. more in the initial photo then the second.  She hasn't put on enough muscle mass to weigh 155 in both.  Just look at her waist.

[DaveW]

Sano can hit a baseball further then anyone else in the league, I'd say that a lot of his weight is "muscle"

[tobi0040]

 

http://i0.wp.com/paleozonenutrition.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/155-lbs-before-and-after.jpg?resize=300%2C286

 

Sano's weight only matters if he lacks muscle, which I see no indication of. This whole thing is ridiculous and misinformed.

 

I disagree, his weight matters if he is a DH at a young age and sees his WAR erode, or has injury/inneffective issues that typically go along with being overweight.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Why are you posting this?  It's not accurate at all.  She easily weighed 30-40 lbs. more in the initial photo then the second.  She hasn't put on enough muscle mass to weigh 155 in both.  Just look at her waist.

 

I don't think you understand how this works.  I'm commonly assumed to weigh about 20 pounds less than I do but I carry about 20 pounds of muscle that people don't recognize right away.  Muscle - especially around the shoulders and neck like Sano has - adds a lot.  

 

I sincerely doubt, even if he wanted to, that Sano could get below 250.  Not without cutting muscle.

[twinsnorth49]

 

I disagree, his weight matters if he is a DH at a young age and sees his WAR erode, or has injury/inneffective issues that typically go along with being overweight.

Define overweight.

 

Again, weight only matters if it's fat, muscle and fat weigh exactly the same, difference being density. If Sano has a sub 25% BMI then his weight is a benefit to him in that he is very strong and more resistant to injury due to his muscle mass.

[twinsnorth49]

 

I don't think you understand how this works.  I'm commonly assumed to weigh about 20 pounds less than I do but I carry about 20 pounds of muscle that people don't recognize right away.  Muscle - especially around the shoulders and neck like Sano has - adds a lot.  

 

I sincerely doubt, even if he wanted to, that Sano could get below 250.  Not without cutting muscle.

Bingo!

[tobi0040]

 

Sano can hit a baseball further then anyone else in the league, I'd say that a lot of his weight is "muscle"

 

That is the other thing.  He very well may put up a .900 OPS this year and hit 35 HR.  I would probably actually bet on that happening.  Just that those numbers at 3B are probably worth another win.  Or another 2-3 wins at 3B relative to a DH.   And I hope he has a 15+ year career with the Twins and is as effective as he can be that whole time.

 

And to me keeping yourself in shape should be pretty easy for a guy with access to the programs, advisors he has access to (conditioning, cooks, weight coaches), let alone 6 months off every year.  He would not be the first guy, Eddie Lacy is a recent example but I never understood this phenomenon.

[DaveW]

 

I sincerely doubt, even if he wanted to, that Sano could get below 250.  Not without cutting muscle.

Reusse would present this Counterpoint:

 

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/11-25-2014/m9B2xT.gif

[tobi0040]

 

Bingo!

 

But 250 and 270 are very different things, especially for a guy that is chasing down balls in the OF.

 

I think he has 20 pounds of flab that he could lose.  It would help the team this year and into the future if he kept if off. 

 

And I think the worry is the next 10-20 are likely higher, not lower given the trend.

[TheLeviathan]

 

But 250 and 270 are very different things, especially for a guy that is chasing down balls in the OF.

 

I think he has 20 pounds of flab that he could lose.  It would help the team this year and into the future if he kept if off. 

 

And I think the worry is the next 10-20 are likely higher, not lower given the trend.

 

Maybe, but cutting weight isn't the same for everyone.  I've found that I simply can't go below a certain threshold before I start losing muscle.  You see this from former offensive lineman all the time - yeah, they cult the bulk and got chiseled, but they cut a lot of muscle bulk in the process too.  

 

There is probably some room for Sano and the Twins to refine him to be the best he can be, but that's between the Twins and Sano and the Twins are on the record about not caring about the issue and being comfortable with where he is.

 

So any speculation to the contrary is really just character digs at our best player.  Which I find bafflingly unnecessary.

[DaveW]

http://web.yesnetwork.com/assets/images/5/5/2/138584552/cuts/AP_818487565885_dbx6makb_lqiuzk4v.jpg

 

Here is a picture of two players, one could be one of the best Twins to ever put on a glove, did nothing wrong and was a great teammate.

The other often put himself before the team, made many ill advised comments and punched a teammate.

Oh and one of them apparently is too fat.

[twinsnorth49]

Puck put on about 20 pounds between the 85 and 86 seasons and at the time everyone was concerned about his weight.

 

Turned out ok I think.

[tobi0040]

 

Puck put on about 20 pounds between the 85 and 86 seasons and at the time everyone was concerned about his weight.

 

Turned out ok I think.

 

Well if you take out his first two seasons and start in 1986, he had a negative dWAR of 5.3.  Which was quite the feat given most of his career was in CF (+2.5 WAR positional adjustment every year).

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/puckeki01.shtml

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/misc/war/positional-adjustment/

[twinsnorth49]

 

Well if you take out his first two seasons and start in 1986, he had a negative dWAR of 5.3.  Which was quite the feat given most of his career was in CF (+2.5 WAR positional adjustment every year).

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/puckeki01.shtml

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/misc/war/positional-adjustment/

Well there you have it, Kirby Puckett was too fat and a lousy baseball player.

 

I hope Sano doesn't follow the same path as him, that's for sure......

[tobi0040]

Well there you have it, Kirby Puckett was too fat and a lousy baseball player.

 

I hope Sano doesn't follow the same path as him, that's for sure......

The second time during this thread I have been falsely accused of saying something.

 

My concern with Sano is that his WAR is eroded because he is out of shape and loses value defensively. Seems to me somewhat valid of a 270 pound 22 year old, not the controversial comment some have made it out to be.

 

I think a case could be made that happened to Puckett. Nobody would ever argue he did not have a great career. I think Sano will too. But maybe not as good as it could be.

[DaveW]

Puckett had positive Dwar in 88, 91 and 92 and 94 as well.

Maybe this is a good example on how defensive stats aren't end all be all. Somehow in 93 he was negative 36 defensively, how exactly does that even happen?

 

Was Puckett Willie Mays in CF? No. But that doesn't mean he still didn't hold his own in CF and doesn't diminish from his hall of fame career.

[tobi0040]

Puckett had positive Dwar in 88, 91 and 92 and 94 as well.

 

Maybe this is a good example on how defensive stats aren't end all be all. Somehow in 93 he was negative 36 defensively, how exactly does that even happen?

 

Was Puckett Willie Mays in CF? No. But that doesn't mean he still didn't hold his own in CF and doesn't diminish from his hall of fame career.

Had he kept himself in better shape as he aged, would his defense been more valuable?

 

In the case of Sano, would he be more valuable as a 3b, RF, or DH?

 

Not that we know this or can prove it, but did the Twins lack of faith in Sano's weight factor in not trading Plouffe?

[twinsnorth49]

 

Had he kept himself in better shape as he aged, would his defense been more valuable?

In the case of Sano, would he be more valuable as a 3b, RF, or DH?

Not that we know this or can prove it, but did the Twins lack of faith in Sano's weight factor in not trading Plouffe?

I don't believe so at all.