Article: Twins Appear To Be All In On Buxton

[nicksaviking]

 

I endorse this decision. Throw him in the pool, let him learn how to swim.

 

Seeing as batters are the reactionary part of the equation to the pitchers causation, I'm generally more in favor of tossing the pitchers into the pool to see if they can swim, but I'm not at all opposed to doing it with talented young hitters either.

 

Buxton has had hiccups at every level before coming on strong. Last year's struggles seemed natural, and I would have put my money on him coming around somewhat last September had the team not put him on the bench for the playoff push.

[Rosterman]

Well, if Santana DOESN'T step up, and Arcia continues to have trouble, he gets the spot out of a process of elimination, unless the Twins wish to fill the outfield spot with guys NOT on the 40-man, which means they have to get rid of some folks (like Santana and Arcia).

 

I'm just hoping Rosario contributes. And Kepler could still be the dark horse candidate in the mix. If a guy is hungry, and produces, you might just take him North and send the other to Rochester!

 

Spring training is more than stats. It's how the prospects react to coaching, work at their skills and show some consistency. And then you hope they keep doing that once the season begins rather than return to old comfortable ways/

[tobi0040]

 

Minors Career; 

 

Gomez: .278/.340/.395

Buxton: .301/.383/.489 

 

Similarities between the 2; Center Fielders, Twins (former/current).  End list

 

Also both right handed (throwing and hitting).  So four total similarities.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The most important line of the entire article in my opinion was:

 

"Buxton's best plan for learning to hit MLB pitching is to face MLB pitching."

 

There is no point in letting him demolish inferior opponents, at some point he will have to play at the ML level and most likely struggle as he learns.  Might as well get it over with as soon as possible.

There's a lot more in common between the players than "centerfield", especially at age 22-ish. Both are lanky speedsters with plus-plus defense and extremely strong arms. Both are baserunning threats with an unrefined approach to stealing. Both have/had power potential but didn't display much of it at a young age. Both were relatively raw batters, though Buxton has the better bat overall (especially when it comes to discipline). Both are prone to swinging and missing the ball a little more often than you'd like to see.

 

Buxton has been the better hitter from day one but the two players share many things in common. And just as it took Gomez some time to figure out MLB, it may take Buxton a full season or more to do the same (but given Byron's MiLB bat, one hopes it won't take 1500+ PAs to get there).

[Thrylos]

The reason that Kepler has been backing him up is that Santana is out with a wrist issue.

 

Rosario played at CF yesterday.   Not sure what the Twins will do, but Buxton has twice as many strikeouts as hits and four times as many as walks this spring, which tells me that his problem is not fixed.  

 

Unless they feel that he is improved because his OBP is .261 this Spring instead of .250 last season, they are blowing hot air

[alarp33]

 

There's a lot more in common between the players than "centerfield", especially at age 22-ish. Both are lanky speedsters with plus-plus defense and extremely strong arms. Both are baserunning threats with an unrefined approach to stealing. Both have/had power potential but didn't display much of it at a young age. Both were relatively raw batters, though Buxton has the better bat overall (especially when it comes to discipline). Both are prone to swinging and missing the ball a little more often than you'd like to see

 

You basically just described 90% of Center Field prospects.  

 

You didn't mention, Buxton has consistently been ranked as the best prospect in all of baseball, while Gomez was never even close to that category of prospect. 

 

PS: If Gomez never played for the Twins, would never ever compare Buxton to him. The minor league track record of each is not even in the same ballpark. 

Edited March 14, 2016 by alarp33

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

You basically just described 90% of Center Field prospects. 

No, I didn't. Do you really think it's that common for centerfield prospects to project to elite range, way above average arm, blinding speed, moderate power, and a slightly unrefined approach?

 

As a prospect, Gomez wasn't in the same league as Buxton offensively but given how Carlos basically hit his ceiling as an offensive player, he's not a bad comp to Byron. Offensive projection was the only truly separating factor between the two as prospects. Everything else about them profiles similarly.

[alarp33]

 

No, I didn't. Do you really think it's that common for centerfield prospects to project to elite range, way above average arm, blinding speed, moderate power, and a slightly unrefined approach?

 

As a prospect, Gomez wasn't in the same league as Buxton offensively but given how Carlos basically hit his ceiling as an offensive player, he's not a bad comp to Byron. Offensive projection was the only truly separating factor between the two as prospects. Everything else about them profiles similarly.

 

Yes, it is common for Center fielders to be fast and have good range.  There is something they call Outfielders without Speed + Range.. Its Left or Right fielders.  

 

A 22 year old has a slightly unrefined approach? That must certainly be unique to Buxton and Gomez. One of which had a .383 obp in the minors, by the way.  But yes, very unrefined.. ie: he didn't hit the day he made the major leagues

 

 

PS: I'm curious why Andrew McCutcheon is never used as a comparison for Buxton. Is it because he doesn't play for the Twins, or because it doesn't fit the narrative as well?

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1780212-comparing-top-hitting-prospect-byron-buxton-to-andrew-mccutchen

 

 

Edited March 14, 2016 by alarp33

[d-mac]

HOOOKAYYY. Buxton had one good game and now he's ready? He's hitting .200/.261/.300 with a 36% K rate against a bunch of AAAA players. In light of his spring and September stats, I'd say his bat is not ready for primetime yet. 

 

Just because he's a top prospect in baseball means jacks*** when his weakest tools are contact and pitch recognition. Such a significant portion of this team's success is tied to his success (not to mention all the $ they've spent on them) I'd hate to see the Twins throw it away by tossing him to the wolves before he's ready. 

[Loosey]

 

There's a lot more in common between the players than "centerfield", especially at age 22-ish. Both are lanky speedsters with plus-plus defense and extremely strong arms. Both are baserunning threats with an unrefined approach to stealing. Both have/had power potential but didn't display much of it at a young age. Both were relatively raw batters, though Buxton has the better bat overall (especially when it comes to discipline). Both are prone to swinging and missing the ball a little more often than you'd like to see.

 

Buxton has been the better hitter from day one but the two players share many things in common. And just as it took Gomez some time to figure out MLB, it may take Buxton a full season or more to do the same (but given Byron's MiLB bat, one hopes it won't take 1500+ PAs to get there).

I wasn't comparing Buxton to Gomez, were you meaning to quote someone else?  Although I do agree with your comparisons with Gomez. 

[Loosey]

 

 

Yes, it is common for Center fielders to be fast and have good range.  There is something they call Outfielders without Speed + Range.. Its Left or Right fielders.  

 

A 22 year old has a slightly unrefined approach? That must certainly be unique to Buxton and Gomez. One of which had a .383 obp in the minors, by the way.  But yes, very unrefined.. ie: he didn't hit the day he made the major leagues

 

 

PS: I'm curious why Andrew McCutcheon is never used as a comparison for Buxton. Is it because he doesn't play for the Twins, or because it doesn't fit the narrative as well?

Andrew McCutcheon is used as a comp a lot.  I actually heard Terry Ryan use him as comp at one time.  The Gomez comp is relevant for Twins fans because they both came through the org, and were rushed to the big leagues based on need.  They also have similar tools.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Loosey

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Yes, it is common for Center fielders to be fast and have good range.  There is something they call Outfielders without Speed + Range.. Its Left or Right fielders.  

 

A 22 year old has a slightly unrefined approach? That must certainly be unique to Buxton and Gomez. One of which had a .383 obp in the minors, by the way.  But yes, very unrefined.. ie: he didn't hit the day he made the major leagues

 

 

PS: I'm curious why Andre McCutcheon is never used as a comparison for Buxton. Is it because he doesn't play for the Twins, or because it doesn't fit the narrative as well?

Actually, I think McCutchen is a great comp, one I've used for Buxton's ceiling several times. Will he be as good as Andrew? Hard to say because McCutchen also hit his offensive ceiling as an MLB player.

 

And I'm not going to go in circles with you about this because you just equated "guy who can play center" with "blinding speed and an elite defender out of the gate".

 

You seem to think any kind of Gomez comparison is a knock on Byron; it's not. Both are tall, lanky speedsters who play defense and run the bases similarly, though Buxton has a more projectable bat and discipline (both in pitch selection and bat control), which bodes well for his future. I'm skeptical he'll ever have Gomez' power, though... And that's okay because Gomez' power came at the expense of bat control and average.

[Thrylos]

 

 

 

The minor league track record of each is not even in the same ballpark. 

 

For how much minor league records matter, I would suggest that you have a look at the minor league records of: Scott Stahoviak and Dave McCarty among others'.  Lots of similarities with McCarty.  He was a third overall pick and BA's number 16 overall at some point.   Career .306/.395/.517 in the minors and .242/.305/.371 in the majors.

 

We don't know what Buxton will do.   But he has a fatal flaw right now:  pitch recognition.  And it does not look fixed.  And until it is fixed he will not be a good hitter.  Good possibility he might have another subButerean year at the plate in the majors.

 

 

[d-mac]

 

Yes, it is common for Center fielders to be fast and have good range.  There is something they call Outfielders without Speed + Range.. Its Left or Right fielders.  

 

A 22 year old has a slightly unrefined approach? That must certainly be unique to Buxton and Gomez. One of which had a .383 obp in the minors, by the way.  But yes, very unrefined.. ie: he didn't hit the day he made the major leagues

 

 

PS: I'm curious why Andre McCutcheon is never used as a comparison for Buxton. Is it because he doesn't play for the Twins, or because it doesn't fit the narrative as well?

 

Here are Buxton and Gomez's numbers from their AA seasons:

 

.283/.351/.489-19% K rate.

.281/.350/.423- 20% K rate

 

Which one is which? 

 

Gomez's first taste of the majors- 139 PA's .232/.288/.304- 19.4% K rate, 5.8% BB rate; 52 wRC+

For comparison Buxton had 138 PA's, hit .209/.250/.326- 31.4% K rate, 4.3% BB rate; wRC+ of 54

 

The comparison is extremely apt. Maybe the comparison to Gomez is inconvenient to your narrative?

[bluechipper]

Andrew McCutchen is a good comp with the bat, but even then, Buxton has quite a bit more pure speed and athleticism than Cutch, which is why the Gomez comp works better in terms of pure athleticism.

[alarp33]

 

 

And I'm not going to go in circles with you about this because you just equated "guy who can play center" with "blinding speed and an elite defender out of the gate".

 

You seem to think any kind of Gomez comparison is a knock on Byron; it's not. Both are tall, lanky speedsters who play defense and run the bases similarly, though Buxton has a more projectable bat and discipline (both in pitch selection and bat control), which bodes well for his future. I'm skeptical he'll ever have Gomez' power, though... And that's okay because Gomez' power came at the expense of bat control and average.

 

Can you provide me with a list of regular center fielders who don't have plus Speed and range? I'll wait

 

I'm not taking it as a knock on Buxton, I'm taking it as a lazy comparison used to provide a narrative that he shouldn't be the starting CFer.  

[alarp33]

 

Here are Buxton and Gomez's numbers from their AA seasons:

 

.283/.351/.489-19% K rate.

.281/.350/.423- 20% K rate

 

Which one is which? 

 

Gomez's first taste of the majors- 139 PA's .232/.288/.304- 19.4% K rate, 5.8% BB rate; 52 wRC+

For comparison Buxton had 138 PA's, hit .209/.250/.326- 31.4% K rate, 4.3% BB rate; wRC+ of 54

 

The comparison is extremely apt. Maybe the comparison to Gomez is inconvenient to your narrative?

 

Buxton played 59 games at AA after missing practically the entire 2014 season. Gomez had a full season there, which was by far his most productive minor league season.  But yes, keep cherry picking infinitely small sample sizes

Edited March 14, 2016 by alarp33

[alarp33]

 

For how much minor league records matter, I would suggest that you have a look at the minor league records of: Scott Stahoviak and Dave McCarty among others'.  Lots of similarities with McCarty.  He was a third overall pick and BA's number 16 overall at some point.   Career .306/.395/.517 in the minors and .242/.305/.371 in the majors.

 

We don't know what Buxton will do.   But he has a fatal flaw right now:  pitch recognition.  And it does not look fixed.  And until it is fixed he will not be a good hitter.  Good possibility he might have another subButerean year at the plate in the majors.

 

Wait, are you telling me there are players who have hit in the minors and not in the Majors? Learn something new everyday. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Can you provide me with a list of regular center fielders who don't have plus Speed and range? I'll wait

 

I'm not taking it as a knock on Buxton, I'm taking it as a lazy comparison used to provide a narrative that he shouldn't be the starting CFer.  

Actually, I've never committed to saying where Buxton should start the season, I'm only illustrating that Gomez and Buxton share many traits.

 

Baseball is littered with centerfielders without plus range and speed. They're called "average centerfielders". Neither Buxton nor Gomez were/are "average centerfielders". They're much better than that.

[d-mac]

 

Yes, it is common for Center fielders to be fast and have good range.  There is something they call Outfielders without Speed + Range.. Its Left or Right fielders.  

 

A 22 year old has a slightly unrefined approach? That must certainly be unique to Buxton and Gomez. One of which had a .383 obp in the minors, by the way.  But yes, very unrefined.. ie: he didn't hit the day he made the major leagues

 

 

PS: I'm curious why Andrew McCutcheon is never used as a comparison for Buxton. Is it because he doesn't play for the Twins, or because it doesn't fit the narrative as well?

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1780212-comparing-top-hitting-prospect-byron-buxton-to-andrew-mccutchen

 

You did not just quote bleacherreport. I can't take you seriously. But in case you were wondering, McCutchen seasoned in the minors with over 550 PA's at AA and over 800 PA's at AAA before he made his debut in 2009, where he immediately started hitting in a crappy Pirates' line-up. Buxton has had a grand total of 271 PA's at AA and 59 at AAA. Not to mention McCutchen walked more and struck out less than Buxton in the minors. 

[bluechipper]

 

Can you provide me with a list of regular center fielders who don't have plus Speed and range? I'll wait

 

I'm not taking it as a knock on Buxton, I'm taking it as a lazy comparison used to provide a narrative that he shouldn't be the starting CFer.  

The difference is Buxton and Gomez have elite speed and range.

[alarp33]

 

He played 59 games in AAA in 2015 after he played at AA

 

Ummm... what? 

 

2015 ROC INT AAA 13 55 11 22 30 3 1 1 8 4 0 12 2 1 .400 .441 .545 .986 0.62
2015 CHA SOU AA 59 237 44 67 116 7 12 6 37 26 0 51 20 2 .283 .351 .489 .840 0.58

[alarp33]

 

 

Baseball is littered with centerfielders without plus range and speed. They're called "average centerfielders". Neither Buxton nor Gomez were/are "average centerfielders". They're much better than that.

 

So that's a no to naming any?

[tobi0040]

Buxton gets a lot of comps to McCutchen and I have heard Trout too.  I think those are off base. Those guys are .900 OPS guys with loads of power.  Trout is a 30-30+ candidate each year and Cutch has been in the 25-25 range each year. 

 

I think Buxton’s offensive upside will look more like Carl Crawford in his prime.   10-15 HR and 50-60 SB while being among league leaders in 3B.  That with plus range and arm make him a really great player. 

 

Still needs to figure out the breaking balls before that becomes a reality though.

[d-mac]

 

Wait, are you telling me there are players who have hit in the minors and not in the Majors? Learn something new everyday. 

 

Great, step 2 is realizing the flaw in your logic. Buxton could turn out to be one of those players, it happens to top prospects all the time. Baseball is a hard game. This ain't football, chief. 

[alarp33]

 

The difference is Buxton and Gomez have elite speed and range.

 

And so do Billy Hamilton, Lorenzo Cain, Juan Lagares, Kevin Pillar, Kevin Kiermarer, etc etc.  It's kind of important for Center Fielders.  

 

Buxton should be the best of the best out there in CF, it doesn't make a Gomez comparison any better, since its kind of integral to being a CFer

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

So that's a no to naming any?

Denard Span. Dexter Fowler. Adam Eaton. Those are off the top of my head.

 

And you need to reel it in a notch. You're taking a tone of aggression for no good reason. We're having a discussion and we don't see eye to eye on the subject. That's okay.

[alarp33]

 

Buxton gets a lot of comps to McCutchen and I have heard Trout too.  I think those are off base. Those guys are .900 OPS guys with loads of power.  Trout is a 30-30+ candidate each year and Cutch has been in the 25-25 range each year. 

 

I think Buxton’s offensive upside will look more like Carl Crawford in his prime.   10-15 HR and 50-60 SB while being among league leaders in 3B.  That with plus range and arm make him a really great player. 

 

Still needs to figure out the breaking balls before that becomes a reality though.

 

I don't think he'll ever have the type of power Trout has, but McCutcheon didn't show any sort of power in the minors, he was tall and thin like Buxton before filling out some.  I think 20-25 home runs is a reasonable ceiling for Buxton

[bluechipper]

 

And so do Billy Hamilton, Lorenzo Cain, Juan Lagares, Kevin Pillar, Kevin Kiermarer, etc etc.  It's kind of important for Center Fielders.  

 

Buxton should be the best of the best out there in CF, it doesn't make a Gomez comparison any better, since its kind of integral to being a CFer

I'm talking about elite speed. The only guy you listed who has elite speed is Billy Hamilton.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Next person to step over the line in this thread gets a one day timeout from the site.

 

If you can't refrain from name-calling, think twice before posting another comment.