Attention Mauer Haters - Part 2

[Twins GFP]

Per a Twitter post from Aaron Gleeman, Fan Graphs has Joe Mauer on pace to be worth $24 million this year. A reminder to everybody that he is making $23 million this year.

 

Where are all of "Mauer is overpaid" comments now?

 

(That sound you hear is the crickets chirping in the background.)

[DPJ]

I love FG, but the money value chart is one of the stupidest things on that site.

[cr9617]

He's still overpaid

[Brock Beauchamp]

I love FG, but the money value chart is one of the stupidest things on that site.

Agreed. It's basically useless.

[BrentMpls]

Is Fan Graphs willing to foot some of the bill?

[Mike Sixel]

Mauer is overpaid given what they are willing to spend on the whole team. Happy now? Are we really going to do this every week? And how does this opinion make anyone a hater?

[IdahoPilgrim]

I also think Mauer is overpaid - and that doesn't make me a "Mauer-hater." I actually think he's done well for the team this year, but it was still a fool's contract, as much as for the length as for the amount. The think the Twins knew it, too, but they were boxed in by circumstances outside their control - just like Drew Brees and New Orleans this year.

[minn55441]

He signed the contract, everyone needs to just get over it. What if this, what if that, it really doesn't matter, he is on our team and is playing well. Let's all just be happy he plays for us and not the Yankees. I don't think anyone can make the arguement that he is worth a quarter of the teams total payroll, but how do we make this a winning organization with his contract, because frankly it isn't going any where.

[Boom Boom]

I'm not convinced that Mauer isn't overpaid.

 

Also... if you're tired of hearing people complain about Mauer's salary, starting threads like this isn't going to stop that. It's just going to start the argument up all over again.

[DaveW]

Do we really need to be having this discussion for the 5th time this month?

[twinswon1991]

The FG dollar values give credit for position scarcity. Mauer is not a full time Catcher anymore so the dollar figure is heavily inflated. I dont fully understand the calculation but I would guess if he was compared to other 1B/DH types he would be at a 10 mil pace.

[DaveW]

The FG dollar values give credit for position scarcity. Mauer is not a full time Catcher anymore so the dollar figure is heavily inflated. I dont fully understand the calculation but I would guess if he was compared to other 1B/DH types he would be at a 10 mil pace.

Much like WAR it's not currently giving him "full credit" as a full time catcher, its give him half credit at C and half at 1st base, so basically its a wash.

[Boom Boom]

Much like WAR it's not currently giving him "full credit" as a full time catcher, its give him half credit at C and half at 1st base, so basically its a wash.

What about all the DH starts?

[DaveW]

What about all the DH starts?

Takes those into account as well.

[DPJ]

It's a pointless number that Dave Cameron and his merry band of jackasses assign to a win. When I first started ready FG I used it all the time, but as I looked more into it, it's just worthless to even use it in any type of debate.

[Guest USAFChief]

It's a pointless number that Dave Cameron and his merry band of jackasses assign to a win. When I first started ready FG I used it all the time, but as I looked more into it, it's just worthless to even use it in any type of debate.

So it's every bit as useful as WAR. Good to know.

[Boom Boom]

So it's every bit as useful as WAR. Good to know.

Less useful, evidently. If you're not a fan of WAR, then you're probably less of a fan of statistics that rely on the accuracy of WAR, like Player Value.

[DaveW]

It's a pointless number that Dave Cameron and his merry band of jackasses assign to a win. When I first started ready FG I used it all the time, but as I looked more into it, it's just worthless to even use it in any type of debate.

It's not worthless, its just not strong enough to be used as a stand alone in an argument, it will show you some relative value of players. For instance Delmon was in negative numbers for a bit, which I think is entirely accurate.

[DPJ]

It's not worthless, its just not strong enough to be used as a stand alone in an argument, it will show you some relative value of players. For instance Delmon was in negative numbers for a bit, which I think is entirely accurate.

WOW...that's such a great analogy Dave, you totally changed my view by using Delmon ****ing Young to show how a worthless player is worth negative value.

[JB_Iowa]

I'm not a Mauer hater. I'm a "Mauer Thread" hater.

 

Enough is enough.

[Scheherezade]

Wait a minute, a statistical formula disagrees with my own personal heuristic? The data must be inherently flawed!

[fetch]

Agreed. It's basically useless.

to be fair a lot of teams use the "~4.5 million per win" formula in evaluating contracts

[Guest USAFChief]

to be fair a lot of teams use the "~4.5 million per win" formula in evaluating contracts

Might it be more accurate to say "a lot of writers and posters at Fangraphs use the ~4.5 million per win" formula in evaluating contracts?

 

Or is there actual evidence "a lot of teams" are using that?

[notoriousgod71]

Yadier Molina must be worth 35 million then according to Fangraphs.

 

What was Mauer worth during his 09 season? 50 million?

[DaveW]

Yadier Molina must be worth 35 million then according to Fangraphs.

 

What was Mauer worth during his 09 season? 50 million?

Mauer had a $35.7 mil worth in 09

Molina has a 17.1 Mil worth vs Mauers 13.3 Mil worth this year.

Molina only has an OPS 20 pts higher then Mauer which suggests that since he is a full time catcher its effecting his worth quite a bit.

[fetch]

Might it be more accurate to say "a lot of writers and posters at Fangraphs use the ~4.5 million per win" formula in evaluating contracts?

 

Or is there actual evidence "a lot of teams" are using that?

there was a post about how CC Sabathia's contract extension broke down almost exactly like that (with projected regression and all that good stuff) . I don't suppose you could get a major league GM to admit how he values contracts though, no.

[Shane Wahl]

Agreed. It's basically useless.

 

What's your evidence for this claim?

[Shane Wahl]

Takes those into account as well.

Yes. But the mindless drones ignore that.

[Shane Wahl]

God. This thread makes me sick. Fangraphs is not the end-all, but people are just absolutely stupid about statistics and damn mathematics sometimes around here.

[Guest USAFChief]

God. This thread makes me sick. Fangraphs is not the end-all, but people are just absolutely stupid about statistics and damn mathematics sometimes around here.

Please educate us.