Fun rant against baseball replay

[gunnarthor]

http://deadspin.com/replay-is-turning-baseball-into-football-and-i-hate-it-1736111661

 

Kind of a fun rant. KC runner was called out after his momentum slightly carried him off the bag for a brief second.  

 

"This isn’t really the kind of mistake instant replay was meant to rectify. There are certainly moments in which replay is a very good thing to have—determining if a home run really cleared the top of the fence or whether a ball is fair or foul come to mind—but the game is not served well when it’s used as a tool to reverse plays based on a base runner’s momentum popping his foot off the bag for a fraction of a second. Bases are hard, and I bet that if you looked at every slide in super slo-mo, you’d see a lot of feet popping a few millimeters off the bag for a split second. When a guy who’s functionally safe—and would be called such in most circumstances—gets called out like this, it makes the game more arbitrary, not less."

[HitInAPinch]

Any infielder turning a double-play would be analyzed to death.

[USAFChief]

He's welcome to his opinion that "this isn't the type of mistake replay was meant to rectify," but that sounds rather silly to me.

 

If you're tagged while the ball is live, and you're not on a base, you're out.  Not to mention, Runners have always been called out if they lose contact with a bag and are tagged out.  The only difference now is, replay gives umpires better looks at smaller windows of being off a bag.

 

Once you start deviating from a standard, you end up stretching and contorting to absurd levels...sort of like the "neighborhood" play.  And then you end up with the kind unintended consequences that will need to be...wait for it...rectified.

 

 

[notoriousgod71]

My issue with that play in particular was that it looked like Valbuena was tagging him with his wrist and not his glove? Is his wrist supposedly part of his hand to where that tag still applies?

 

 

[Platoon]

These replays show just how difficult it is to get the plays right in live action. When you have to look at that many replays, from that many angles, and still it's sometimes a struggle to ascertain what did or did not happen, you realize how hard it is to actually get it right the first time. All that said, I still kind of hate the replays, it takes the old school human element out of the game. I understand there's tons of bucks riding on the outcomes, but it still isn't the same.

[Winston Smith]

*Agree. The game is played by  humans, and humans make mistakes. Hitters, pitchers, managers,  coaches, bloggers and umpires all make mistakes. Turning it into a video game so everything is perfect stinks, imo.

If they are going to do it make the time after the play really short, maybe 15 seconds. The manager standing on the top step for several minutes while someone in the back goes over the video screws  the game up. If you aren't sure right away move along.

[Old Twins Cap]

What is at stake is the basic flow and integrity of the game. 

 

I agree with the writer of the article:  if you examined every play, down to the millimeter, there would be calls and reversals that would make no sense to the naked eye or common sense.

 

We can't allow baseball to go the way of football with endless replays and commenters and opinions and rules and still no consensus about right or wrong to any of it.

 

I would bet within a year or two, MLB will clarify rules about having achieved a base and not violating any common sense rules of being out of control.

 

And don't forget, the incentive to push, pull and apply the tag with excessive force is just going to overwhelm the game and make it like soccer.

[drjim]

I know they can change a call every couple of games, but I was never a fan of replay on the bases (home plate an exception) except by umpire discretion. Always unexpected consequences.

 

The goal should never have been perfection but to avoid the glaring mistake.

[blindeke]

 

What is at stake is the basic flow and integrity of the game. 

 

I agree with the writer of the article:  if you examined every play, down to the millimeter, there would be calls and reversals that would make no sense to the naked eye or common sense.

 

We can't allow baseball to go the way of football with endless replays and commenters and opinions and rules and still no consensus about right or wrong to any of it.

 

I would bet within a year or two, MLB will clarify rules about having achieved a base and not violating any common sense rules of being out of control.

 

And don't forget, the incentive to push, pull and apply the tag with excessive force is just going to overwhelm the game and make it like soccer.

 

+1 well written. 

 

there's also a good Cricket analogy at Deadspin in the comments:

 

"Cricket had a similar thing happen. Its version of being on base is having some part of the batter’s body or bat grounded behind a line. With the introduction of replay, people were getting called out because, after having crossed the line, were temporarily in the air while in mid-stride, and being (technically) correctly called out.

 

But it turns out the official rule makers for cricket are actually a fairly sensible bunch, so they changed the law to say that, once you’ve made that initial contact behind the line with your foot, you’re safe.

 

The baseball version of that change would be harder to make, but surely someone could come up with a rule (or a comment on the rule) that allows things like this to go unpunished while still punishing the guy that overruns the base or steps off while the ball is still live."

[blindeke]

Also, can we talk about this too then?

 

[spinowner]

 

Also, can we talk about this too then?

 

Look at 0:44 to 0:45 of this video and see what I thought I saw back when I looked at the tape my wife made while she and I were at the game. Gant touches the base with his left foot, then his right. Hrbek's glove then comes in contact with Gant's ankle just before Gant shifts the position of his right foot. I thought that Gant's right foot came just slightly off the base as he did that, which would mean he was out at that point. I also think Gant was losing his balance enough that he came off the base after that due to his own momentum, BEFORE Hrbek "continued maintaining contact with his tag". Part of the reason Gant lost his balance was because Hrbek's right leg was impeding Gant's ability to stay upright, but Hrbek had the right to maintain his position. So I think Gant was legally tagged out twice, although Drew Coble called him out after the second tag.

[biggentleben]

 

Also, can we talk about this too then?

 

 

No, no we can not.

 

Hrbek can extinguish in a tire fire.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

Look at 0:44 to 0:45 of this video and see what I thought I saw back when I looked at the tape my wife made while she and I were at the game. Gant touches the base with his left foot, then his right. Hrbek's glove then comes in contact with Gant's ankle just before Gant shifts the position of his right foot. I thought that Gant's right foot came just slightly off the base as he did that, which would mean he was out at that point. I also think Gant was losing his balance enough that he came off the base after that due to his own momentum, BEFORE Hrbek "continued maintaining contact with his tag". Part of the reason Gant lost his balance was because Hrbek's right leg was impeding Gant's ability to stay upright, but Hrbek had the right to maintain his position. So I think Gant was legally tagged out twice, although Drew Coble called him out after the second tag.

Gant made funny steps but there was no tag in between steps and if Hrbek didn't get low and lift him, Gant would have easily kept his foot on the base. 

[ScrapTheNickname]

Molitor challenged only 41 or 42 times this year (I can't find the exact figure right now). Incidentally, he won 25 of them which was the 4th highest success rate in MLB.

 

That he challenged once in ever 4 games surprised me (and this about the league average). This means when two teams play each other (and that's usually how it's done!) there is one challenge every other baseball game.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Minniman]

So how many ankles will get turned by base clipping with spikes if replay checks base contact?

[spinowner]

 

Gant made funny steps but there was no tag in between steps and if Hrbek didn't get low and lift him, Gant would have easily kept his foot on the base. 

Looks like another agree to disagree situation. I doubt Gant would have wound up with both hands and both feet on the ground without Hrbek's assistance but I do think Gant's foot would have come off the bag a little. My view after looking at this many times is that Hrbek didn't start to lift until Gant's foot had already come off.

[biggentleben]

 

Looks like another agree to disagree situation. I doubt Gant would have wound up with both hands and both feet on the ground without Hrbek's assistance but I do think Gant's foot would have come off the bag a little. My view after looking at this many times is that Hrbek didn't start to lift until Gant's foot had already come off.

 

I think you need these to fully buy into that view:

 

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0876/5690/products/1_e3c3e0d7-1f65-4943-9bb9-151956fbbe46_large.jpeg?v=1432583776

[USAFChief]

I think you need these to fully buy into that view:

 

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0876/5690/products/1_e3c3e0d7-1f65-4943-9bb9-151956fbbe46_large.jpeg?v=1432583776

Look at that still frame. It's clear Gant is deliberately and violently kneeing poor Hrbek in the midsection, and should have been ejected! Perhaps even had his children taken away.

 

But Hrbek, and most Twins fans have put the past behind, and have come to forgive and forget.

 

I hope someday you can do the same.

[biggentleben]

 

Look at that still frame. It's clear Gant is deliberately and violently kneeing poor Hrbek in the midsection, and should have been ejected! Perhaps even had his children taken away.

But Hrbek, and most Twins fans have put the past behind, and have come to forgive and forget.

I hope someday you can do the same.

 

Forgiveness for Lonnie Smith and even Jack Morris, perhaps. Never Kent, and not because of that play.

[gunnarthor]

It always amazes me that the Braves fans think Hrbek did anything wrong on that play.  He merely kept the glove on Gant who lost balance, all by himself.  They even memorilized Gant's misplay in a statue.  

http://stmedia.startribune.com/images/640*480/hrbekGant.jpg

[biggentleben]

This thread reminds me that there is no "dislike" button. Sad.