Cherington a possibility?

[bird]

 

How about, I don't agree or like whatever his plan is.  And if he has a good one in my opinion his execution has been sub-par.

 

How about, you've ignored the reality that they've been working a plan, that it's been a pretty transparent and forthright undertaking, imperfect for sure. And yet, you reject out of hand the entire plan you claim to not know about and in a broad stroke deride his execution of it.

 

This is the epitome of an unbalanced and extreme level of criticism, my friend. How are we to take such criticism seriously?

[howeda7]

Anybody? I see someone here has David Kahn as their avatar. Maybe baseball is his sport. It would explain a lot...

Yes, please. Ryan is a god-awful GM. Anybody is an upgrade at this point. Except maybe Arizona's GM.

 

[USAFChief]

How about, you've ignored the reality that they've been working a plan, that it's been a pretty transparent and forthright undertaking, imperfect for sure. And yet, you reject out of hand the entire plan you claim to not know about and in a broad stroke deride his execution of it.

 

This is the epitome of an unbalanced and extreme level of criticism, my friend. How are we to take such criticism seriously?

Lets turn this around.

 

This team lost almost 400 games over the course of 4 seasons. When presented with an opportunity to stay relevant in year five, there was little evidence the team knew how to take advantage.

 

Shouldn't the default position be "plan? I need evidence."

[jimmer]

Sporting News did a MLB GM ranking.  They put Ryan at 17.  The year before he was 21st.  Certainly one could argue a few ahead of him may not deserve it and also a few behind him should be ranked ahead of him.  But it's been a long time since I saw a ranking that had him in the top half. And these aren't done by Twins fans.

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/list/4646251-baseball-general-manager-rankings-2015-best-worst-beane-sabean-cherington-cashman/slide/328815

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Sporting News did a MLB GM ranking.  They put Ryan at 17.  The year before he was 21st.  I can't even remember the last time I saw a ranking that had him in the top half. And these aren't done by Twins fans.

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/list/4646251-baseball-general-manager-rankings-2015-best-worst-beane-sabean-cherington-cashman/slide/328815

Oy, that list hurts my brain.

 

#14: AJ Preller: media darling, LOL results.

 

#4: Dave Dombrowski: wait, what?

 

#1: Billy Beane: are you trolling us, Sporting News? I love Beane as much as the next guy but best GM in baseball? No, man. NO. That goes to a guy who wins it all.

[jimmer]

 

Oy, that list hurts my brain.

 

#14: AJ Preller: media darling, LOL results.

 

#4: Dave Dombrowski: wait, what?

 

#1: Billy Beane: are you trolling us, Sporting News?

My point was, it's not just us wacky impatient unknowing blogger Twins fans who don't see him as a top 5 GM or one of the better GMs.  

 

BTW, Dombrowski is considered a fantastic GM by practically every supposed expert I listen to (and I listened/read a lot after the Tigers released him from his contract). Heard things like HOF GM. Look at his body of work. It's probably why it took him a whole minute to land the Boston President job.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

My point was, it's not just us wacky impatient unknowing blogger Twins fans who don't see him as a top 5 GM or one of the better GMs.  

 

BTW, Dombrowski is considered a fantastic GM by practically every supposed expert I listen to. Look at his body of work. It's probably why it took him a whole minute to land the Boston President job.

I think Dombrowski was a pretty good GM and while he built a perennial contender in Detroit for a half decade, he also let the organization rot from the ground up and now Detroit is in a very unfortunate place, probably for a long time.

 

But #4 in MLB as of June 4th, 2015? No, man. Come on.

 

How is Mozeliak not #1 on this list? He took over the Cardinals position in 2007. After stumbling a bit in that inaugural season, the Cardinals have not won fewer than 86 games in a season and have crossed 90 wins in five of eight seasons (including this one, the Cards are a shoe-in for 90 again).

 

I know this is a popular line on the internet, but... That list is terrible. I expect better from Spector.

[jimmer]

 

I think Dombrowski was a pretty good GM and while he built a perennial contender in Detroit for a half decade, he also let the organization rot from the ground up and now Detroit is in a very unfortunate place, probably for a long time.

 

But #4 in MLB as of June 4th, 2015? No, man. Come on.

 

How is Mozeliak not #1 on this list? He took over the Cardinals position in 2007. After stumbling a bit in that inaugural season, the Cardinals have not won fewer than 86 games in a season and have crossed 90 wins in five of eight seasons (including this one, the Cards are a shoe-in for 90 again).

 

I know this is a popular line on the internet, but... That list is terrible. I expect better from Spector.

Ok.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Bwahahahahahah, I just ran through the back half of the list.

 

Who's the worst GM in baseball?

 

#30: Alex Anthopoulos, Blue Jays

 

That's hilarious.

[jimmer]

 

Bwahahahahahah, I just ran through the back half of the list.

 

Who's the worst GM in baseball?

 

#30: Alex Anthopoulos, Blue Jays

 

That's hilarious.

you should give us your list.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

you should give us your list.

No way do I have the time to put the amount of thought needed to do that properly.

 

But obviously, Terry Ryan would be first on the list because of course he's the best.

[jimmer]

 

No way do I have the time to put the amount of thought needed to do that properly.

 

But obviously, Terry Ryan would be first on the list because of course he's the best.

Let's see how the fans from Fangraphs ranked team FOs and what Jeff Sullivan had to say about the crowd sourcing results.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/front-office-ratings-by-the-community/

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Let's see how the fans from Fangraphs ranked team FOs and what Jeff Sullivan had to say about the crowd sourcing results.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/front-office-ratings-by-the-community/

After giving that list a cursory glance, it lines up with my own opinions much more closely than Spector's list. I'd shuffle a few teams down (Bal, TB) and a few teams up (KC stands out) but mostly, the teams seems to be within +/- 2-3 spots of where I'd rank them if I didn't put too much thought into it.

[TheLeviathan]

Dombrowski at 4 seems right to me. Most of the cringeworthy moves are believed to be owner mandates and not really a reflection of Dombrowski.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Dombrowski at 4 seems right to me. Most of the cringeworthy moves are believed to be owner mandates and not really a reflection of Dombrowski.

That's a really good point. I forgot about the Fielder fiasco and unfairly pinned that asinine signing on Dombrowski.

 

If anything, he should get positive points for managing to unload that idiotic deal ownership thrust upon him.

 

(the Fielder and Ellsbury deals were my two most LOL-worthy contract moments of the past few years)

[mike8791]

You are all missing the point, IMO.  Yes, Ryan must go.  He has been GM for about 20 years, with one playoff series win to show for it.   Any passionate baseball owner would have tossed him and his crew a long time ago.  But we're talking the Pohlads here!!

 

The moment Dumbrowski was shown the door, bumbling Jim should have been on the phone giving him a blank check to run this franchise.  Cherington is besides the point.  It is DD who was the nugget that was available, but our complacent ownership sat on thei hands, again.  What else is new.

 

until Twins' fans start boycotting Target Field and the Pohlads nothing will change. The Twins will flounder under dumpster diving TR(or one of his inept disciples).  That's what the past 20 years should have taught everyone!

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

You are all missing the point, IMO.  Yes, Ryan must go.  He has been GM for about 20 years, with one playoff series win to show for it.   Any passionate baseball owner would have tossed him and his crew a long time ago.  But we're talking the Pohlads here!!

 

The moment Dumbrowski was shown the door, bumbling Jim should have been on the phone giving him a blank check to run this franchise.  Cherington is besides the point.  It is DD who was the nugget that was available, but our complacent ownership sat on thei hands, again.  What else is new.

 

until Twins' fans start boycotting Target Field and the Pohlads nothing will change. The Twins will flounder under dumpster diving TR(or one of his inept disciples).  That's what the past 20 years should have taught everyone!

The "inept" and "bumbling" Twins personnel have managed to put together a fringe contender, much to our surprise.

 

You may not like the things they've done. Discuss where you think they went wrong. Check the unnecessary personal insults at the door.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I think his plan with the May spot start thing was "I still have a 7 man bullpen, so I should be fine". People are making way too much out of that for the wrong reason. The issue was never that May made a spot start and the Twins did a bullpen game, it's that the Twins have at least 2 guys in the pen that shouldn't be trusted for more than mop-up duty. Blame TR for not having better pitchers in the bullpen, not for "only" having 7 guys besides May in the bullpen.

I think you misread that post. May's spot start took away our best recent relief option by far for nearly a week, for meager benefit (3 IP in a bullpen game, when the other 6 Ip were likely coming from bad relievers). That IS a quality argument, not a quantity one.

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

I think you misread that post. May's spot start took away our best recent relief option by far for nearly a week, for meager benefit (3 IP in a bullpen game, when the other 6 Ip were likely coming from bad relievers). That IS a quality argument, not a quantity one.

 

The post I was responding to characterized the decision to have May do a spot start, rather than bring up Berrios, as "not having a plan".  Again, I'm not defending TR's decision to have May go 3 innings (which I thought was stupid), or that it put us in a bad spot (it did).  I'm arguing that the reason this was an issue is that we didn't have the quality arms in the pen to absorb having a guy go out for a few days.  If our pitchers on Tuesday were Papelbon and Chapman, we wouldn't have called May doing the bullpen game an issue, which illustrates its a quality issue, not a quantity one.  Ultimately, I think we're largely saying the same thing, just in different ways.

[Otto von Ballpark]

The post I was responding to characterized the decision to have May do a spot start, rather than bring up Berrios, as "not having a plan". Again, I'm not defending TR's decision to have May go 3 innings (which I thought was stupid), or that it put us in a bad spot (it did). I'm arguing that the reason this was an issue is that we didn't have the quality arms in the pen to absorb having a guy go out for a few days. If our pitchers on Tuesday were Papelbon and Chapman, we wouldn't have called May doing the bullpen game an issue, which illustrates its a quality issue, not a quantity one. Ultimately, I think we're largely saying the same thing, just in different ways.

Not having a plan (or having a terrible one) to go almost a week without perhaps your only reliable reliever, yeah that sounds like a quality issue.

 

I don't think anyone has complained that the Twins have too few relievers this year, in terms of quantity.

 

In any case, it seems we all agree it was a terrible move. Which is a shame, because it has offset what looks like a solid move with Duffey so far.

[USAFChief]

Not having a plan (or having a terrible one) to go almost a week without perhaps your only reliable reliever, yeah that sounds like a quality issue.

I don't think anyone has complained that the Twins have too few relievers this year, in terms of quantity.

In any case, it seems we all agree it was a terrible move. Which is a shame, because it has offset what looks like a solid move with Duffey so far.

And when you're on the fringe of contention, a move that clearly weakens your team for at least a week is indefensible.

[HitInAPinch]

 

The "inept" and "bumbling" Twins personnel have managed to put together a fringe contender, much to our surprise.

 

You may not like the things they've done. Discuss where you think they went wrong. Check the unnecessary personal insults at the door.

Yeah, that's really it.  4 consecutive 90 loss seasons.  People demanded changes.  You got changes [some they didn't like] and here the Twins sit today at 61 wins, 61 losses].  The farm system is producing [sano, Rosario, Hicks, etc.] and there's still more potential in prospects Buxton, Berrios, Polanco, Gordon and a host of others.  It's ample enough that with only a few years of development time the Twins could field a competent+ team made up of former Twins farmhands. 

 

I'm not seeing what the big beef is with Ryan.  The problem some have is Ryan has a steady hand and won't mortgage the future for very limited, short-term success.

 

Not that I'd mind seeing him flip some MLB players and prospects for a Chris Sale........

[Twins7]

Yeah, that's really it.  4 consecutive 90 loss seasons.  People demanded changes.  You got changes [some they didn't like] and here the Twins sit today at 61 wins, 61 losses].  The farm system is producing [sano, Rosario, Hicks, etc.] and there's still more potential in prospects Buxton, Berrios, Polanco, Gordon and a host of others.  It's ample enough that with only a few years of development time the Twins could field a competent+ team made up of former Twins farmhands. 

 

I'm not seeing what the big beef is with Ryan.  The problem some have is Ryan has a steady hand and won't mortgage the future for very limited, short-term success.

 

Not that I'd mind seeing him flip some MLB players and prospects for a Chris Sale........

 

Yeah, that's what makes me so hesitant to deride TR, despite how bad we've been in the last few years. We, as fans, understandably expect TR to put together a winning team every year. But, players are controlled and developed over much longer time scales, upwards of 5 years. If you can't spend 200- 300mil a year buying the best players, you've got to try to acquire and develop premium young talent, and it seems that TR and co. has done a pretty good job of that in the last few years. That 2012 draft has the makings of a legendary draft...

 

And, the big organizational weakness has clearly been pitching - from philosophy (PTC), to talent, to managing injury. It seems that the FO has recognized this weakness and has made strides in trying to get better, from drafting more velocity, guys with less mileage on their arms, Duffey with his curve, and going outside the organization to the rays, a team with historically good pitcher development, for a new top pitching coach. Plus, they've shown a willingness to take on more expensive FA starters, although they haven't all worked out and they haven't acquired any premium talent. Our pitching staff has been markedly better this year, as opposed to the worst in the league over the last few years.