I Believe in Stephen Vogt

[jun]

 

Twins trade: Trevor Plouffe, Max Kepler, Jorge Polanco, Chi Wei Hu, Alex Meyer, Stephen Gonsalves
Rockies trade: Wilin Rosario, Troy Tulowitzki

Rosario and Mauer alternate catching and playing 1B. Sano full time 3B. Arcia up to DH/RF with Torii.
Tulowitzki dominates at SS.

CF Buxton
2B Dozier
SS Tulowitzki
3B Sano
1B Mauer
RF Hunter
DH Arcia
C W Rosario
LF E Rosario
Bench Hicks
Bench Escobar
Bench Suzuki
Bench Nunez

A guy can dream right?

Good dream.

I would use Vargas as DH. Look into next season, I see Kepler would take over Hunter's position.

[GACbaseball]

I would keep Kepler, Gonsalves, Polanco and Hu, might give up Plouffe, Levi Michaels, Danny Santana and ABW (or Arcia) and Meyer. Try the best to keep pitching.

I tried to be fair for the Rockies atleast, no chance they're going to trade a top 3 shortstop and a very good player without getting back atleast one or two top prospects... Plus the Rockies desperately need pitching. I was happy to just be able to keep Berrios, Gordon, Jay and Stewart and still have a respectable trade proposal

[TheLeviathan]

 

Why are the Padres trading one of their best players, who isn't old and expensive?

 

They might not be - but the Padres are a dumpster fire with a young catcher that may be ready to step in soon.   It's one of the first places I'd call about a catcher.

[drjim]

 

They might not be - but the Padres are a dumpster fire with a young catcher that may be ready to step in soon.   It's one of the first places I'd call about a catcher.

 

And it's not like you make this up - lots of speculation on potential availability of Norris.

 

They would want mlb pieces back though, not sure if the Twins have the ammo.

[jun]

 

I tried to be fair for the Rockies atleast, no chance they're going to trade a top 3 shortstop and a very good player without getting back atleast one or two top prospects... Plus the Rockies desperately need pitching. I was happy to just be able to keep Berrios, Gordon, Jay and Stewart and still have a respectable trade proposal

Fair enough, I would give up Stewart and Hu and then try to keep Arcia or ABW for future trade.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Twins trade: Trevor Plouffe, Max Kepler, Jorge Polanco, Chi Wei Hu, Alex Meyer, Stephen Gonsalves
Rockies trade: Wilin Rosario, Troy Tulowitzki

Rosario and Mauer alternate catching and playing 1B. Sano full time 3B. Arcia up to DH/RF with Torii.
Tulowitzki dominates at SS.

CF Buxton
2B Dozier
SS Tulowitzki
3B Sano
1B Mauer
RF Hunter
DH Arcia
C W Rosario
LF E Rosario
Bench Hicks
Bench Escobar
Bench Suzuki
Bench Nunez

A guy can dream right?

 

Sorry no.  Way too much to give up.  Glad we are in the hunt, but this isn't a WS team and giving up that much is going to have a bad impact on the rest of the decade.

[nicksaviking]

 

Twins trade: Trevor Plouffe, Max Kepler, Jorge Polanco, Chi Wei Hu, Alex Meyer, Stephen Gonsalves
Rockies trade: Wilin Rosario, Troy Tulowitzki

 

Rosario and Mauer alternate catching and playing 1B. Sano full time 3B. Arcia up to DH/RF with Torii.
Tulowitzki dominates at SS.
 

 

So if the Twins have rapidly aging an sharply declining vets in Mauer anTulowitzki under large 100M+ contracts, you think they'll be likely to give more big contracts to Sano, Buxton, Berrios or whomever else may require one?

 

Also, Tulowitzki's days at SS are numbered considering how injury prone he is.  And are we really still talking about Mauer playing Catcher?

[bluechipper]

 

Sorry no.  Way too much to give up.  Glad we are in the hunt, but this isn't a WS team and giving up that much is going to have a bad impact on the rest of the decade.

I don't understand the "this isn't a WS team" thing. The Twins have a 4 game lead in the Wild Card standings. Once you get into the playoffs, anything can happen.

[jimbo92107]

Every one of these moves amounts to an experiment, and I have no objection to experiments. However, with the sheer number of promising players in the Twins farm system, it seems foolish to get rid of good young players for one-year rentals, aging veterans or former stars whose production is down or are coming off injuries. I would be especially wary of slick horse traders like Billy Beane.

 

Frankly, Terry Ryan's best move long term may be to stand pat and let Molitor experiment with bringing up more minor leaguers from this system. Maybe Eric Fryer's not that bad. Maybe with enough good coaching Stewart Turner can hit his weight. JO Berrios might be the perfect add for a second half bull pen, along with Taylor Rogers. An outfield of Rosario, Buxon and Hicks RF would look great, with Arcia as the fourth OF/DH to hit behind Sano against righties.

 

These are experiments, too. But they don't cost the system any of its talent.

[TheLeviathan]

 

And it's not like you make this up - lots of speculation on potential availability of Norris.

 

They would want mlb pieces back though, not sure if the Twins have the ammo.

 

Here's a tough one.....

 

What if their price is something like Aaron Hicks (they desperately need a CF) and Jake Reed?  Would you do it?

 

I'd lean yes, due to Buxton and our glaring hole at catcher.

[bluechipper]

 

Every one of these moves amounts to an experiment, and I have no objection to experiments. However, with the sheer number of promising players in the Twins farm system, it seems foolish to get rid of good young players for one-year rentals, aging veterans or former stars whose production is down or are coming off injuries. I would be especially wary of slick horse traders like Billy Beane.

 

Frankly, Terry Ryan's best move long term may be to stand pat and let Molitor experiment with bringing up more minor leaguers from this system. Maybe Eric Fryer's not that bad. Maybe with enough good coaching Stewart Turner can hit his weight. JO Berrios might be the perfect add for a second half bull pen, along with Taylor Rogers. An outfield of Rosario, Buxon and Hicks RF would look great, with Arcia as the fourth OF/DH to hit behind Sano against righties.

 

These are experiments, too. But they don't cost the system any of its talent.

Are you really worried about Ryan getting outsmarted by Billy Beane? Let's remember that he gave up Addison Russell for Jeff Samardzija and Jason Hammel just last year. Russell and Josh Donaldson would be making a pretty good left side of the infield right now.

[Mike Sixel]

Here's a tough one.....

 

What if their price is something like Aaron Hicks (they desperately need a CF) and Jake Reed? Would you do it?

 

I'd lean yes, due to Buxton and our glaring hole at catcher.

Yes, without hesitation.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Yes, without hesitation.

 

I honestly believe we could land Norris with a Hicks-led package of players.  It's one of the positions they have the most need at.

[drjim]

 

Here's a tough one.....

 

What if their price is something like Aaron Hicks (they desperately need a CF) and Jake Reed?  Would you do it?

 

I'd lean yes, due to Buxton and our glaring hole at catcher.

 

I would do it too, but this probably is an offseason type move. Not sure if filling C and creating an immediate hole in CF (before Buxton is ready) does much for this year. And I'm sure San Diego would want more data on Hicks.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I would do it too, but this probably is an offseason type move. Not sure if filling C and creating an immediate hole in CF (before Buxton is ready) does much for this year. And I'm sure San Diego would want more data on Hicks.

 

You may be right (especially about it being an offseason deal), my biggest hesitation is opening up CF.  I would assume we would move Rosario to CF and call up Arcia to play LF in the scenario of doing it before the deadline.

[Mike Sixel]

Norris + Suzuki as backup +Arcia>>>>>>>>>Hicks + Suzuki + Herrman as backup. Not even close. I don't think I can type >>>> enough to make that equation work. And, it's not just for this year.

[drjim]

 

Norris + Suzuki as backup +Arcia>>>>>>>>>Hicks + Suzuki + Herrman as backup. Not even close. I don't think I can type >>>> enough to make that equation work. And, it's not just for this year.

 

I don't know. Twins will likely score more runs, but might give back even more.

[drjim]

I don't know. Twins will likely score more runs, but might give back even more.

 

And I'm not sure more runs is an absolute given - sacrifice OBP for more SLG, but balanced by a huge downgrade in defense and speed.

[Mike Sixel]

I am assuming Buxton is back in September, so maybe 4-6 weeks of less defense. I also think we are understating the delta between Norris and Suzuki in this equation.....but who knows. Maybe not.

 

And, I'm looking at next year too....not just this year.

[Willihammer]

I think I'd get behind a Vogt trade, depending on the price. I like that he's LH and he has kind of a reverse Coors effect going on (better split on the road). Plus it would be funny when Gladden calls him Stephen Voigt again and again.

[TheLeviathan]

The more I think about this the more I'm on board and hoping it could happen:

 

Dozier

Hunter

Mauer

Sano

Plouffe

Arcia

Norris

Rosario

Santana

 

Sign me up.

[drjim]

The more I think about this the more I'm on board and hoping it could happen:

 

Dozier

Hunter

Mauer

Sano

Plouffe

Arcia

Norris

Rosario

Santana

 

Sign me up.

That's a worse team.

[TheLeviathan]

 

That's a worse team.

 

I disagree and that's coming from someone that isn't a fan of having Arcia in the field.  But it definitely sets this team up beautifully when Hunter is gone and Buxton is in at CF.  It's the kind of move you make for the future.

[drjim]

I disagree and that's coming from someone that isn't a fan of having Arcia in the field. But it definitely sets this team up beautifully when Hunter is gone and Buxton is in at CF. It's the kind of move you make for the future.

Defense aside, I'm not all that confident Arcia can hit all that much either.

 

I'd consider it in the offseason if Buxton is ready. And I'd like to see how both Hicks and Norris finish the year. Not completely sold Norris is a great stick.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Defense aside, I'm not all that confident Arcia can hit all that much either.

I'd consider it in the offseason if Buxton is ready. And I'd like to see how both Hicks and Norris finish the year. Not completely sold Norris is a great stick.

 

I still have a lot of confidence in Arcia, he's only 24.  He just seems way older.

 

As for Norris' greatness, relative to the catching situation in MLB I'm not sure how there can be much question he's upper echelon.  

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

What if their price is something like Aaron Hicks (they desperately need a CF) and Jake Reed?  Would you do it?

This is incredibly in favor of the Twins.  Norris was just traded this past offseason for Jesse Hahn and RJ Alvarez, who were the rough equivalent of Trevor May right now if his ERA more closely matched his FIP and Nick Burdi if he had dominated AA and debuted in MLB this year like we all hoped.

 

No way San Diego turns around and trades him for a CF who's just now approaching league average in a small sample, and a scuffling AA reliever.  Hicks's season is encouraging but he's still far from a great trade chip (and our "blue chip" AA relievers add very little to any trade right now).

[DaveW]

The Padres aren't going to trade Norris for a Hicks lead package, they clearly never cared about having a "true" CF anyways since they decided to trade for like 30 LF/RF this off-season. Then again, their GM is stupid enough where maybe he would trade Norris for pennies on the dollar.

 

I still think Hicks becomes a very nice OF 20 HR/20 SB type, but I don't see the Twins trading him during the season if they trade him at all. I'd much prefer they hold onto him.

[TheLeviathan]

 

This is incredibly in favor of the Twins.  Norris was just traded this past offseason for Jesse Hahn and RJ Alvarez, who were the rough equivalent of Trevor May right now if his ERA more closely matched his FIP and Nick Burdi if he had dominated AA and debuted in MLB this year like we all hoped.

 

Jesse Hahn had a history of health issues too (SDP sold high) and RJ Alvarez was considered by many to be a blown elbow waiting to happen.  Either way using ill-advised SDP trades from this offseason as a gauge of value is probably a poor methodology.  

 

Is that package in favor of the Twins?  Yeah, probably.  Spitballing trade ideas and hypotheticals is never going to be much of a science.  Way too many variables, so don't miss the forest for the trees.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Then again, their GM is stupid enough where maybe he would trade Norris for pennies on the dollar.

 

 Either way using ill-advised SDP trades from this offseason as a gauge of value is probably a poor methodology.  

I am no fan of the San Diego GM overall, but I wish TR had been so "stupid" and "ill-advised" to snag Norris this past offseason...

[HitInAPinch]

 

I liked the idea until I saw his age.  Not against acquiring him, but this isn't something you give up Berrios for.  If he was 26 and doing this, that would be a much different story.

Well, 30 yrs old, but relatively low mileage over the past 3 years.