Miguel Sano How Soon Is Now?

[Brock Beauchamp]

There is no shuffling around in this scenario. C- Suzuki 1B- Mauer. If he needs a day off in the field, Sano could be an option. 2B- Dozier SS- TBD 3B- Plouffe. If he needs a day off in the field, Sano could be an option. LF- Rosario CF- Buxton RF- Hunter. If Hunter needs a day off in the field and we need a better bat than Hicks, Sano is an option. DH- Sano primary option. Mauer, Plouffe, Hunter whenever they need a day off in the field.

So now you want Sano to learn TWO new positions while figuring out MLB pitchers.

 

Seriously, guys, honest question because I don't understand what's going on here. How do you not see how terrible an idea this is?

 

If you absolutely must shuffle someone around the diamond, shuffle Plouffe. At least he has experience at the positions in question and is established enough that it won't get into his head. You don't do that to an elite prospect. You just don't.

[Kwak]

Another thought about Sano in RF--ball hit to the gap, Buxton running fast, tracking the ball--and here comes the baby elephant at his full speed colliding into Buxton... .  Collisions between Gomez and Span, though all too frequent, were at least mild--this one won't !!

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Putting Sano in the outfield is like a behind-the-back, bank shot off the light pole. Way too complicated. Just try him as DH and keep it simple. Lots of teams have guys who DH full time and DH only.

[drjim]

 

So now you want Sano to learn TWO new positions while figuring out MLB pitchers.

Seriously, guys, honest question because I don't understand what's going on here. How do you not see how terrible an idea this is?

If you absolutely must shuffle someone around the diamond, shuffle Plouffe. At least he has experience at the positions in question and is established enough that it won't get into his head. You don't do that to an elite prospect. You just don't.

 

I mostly agree with this, but think he could play a game or two a week in RF without much problem.

 

Have him DH mostly, play 3B to spell Plouffe or Mauer (with Plouffe at 1B), and some games in RF to spell RF. Really good hitters have to move around the diamond a little to get their bat in the lineup, worked out OK for Miggy Cabrera and Pujols for example.

 

In '03 Cabrera played 55 games in LF and 34 games at 3B, despite never playing LF in the minors.

 

In '01 Pujols played 43 games at 1B, 55 games at 3B, 39 games in LF, 39 games in RF.

 

It is not going to destroy Sano to play a couple of positions.

[drjim]

 

Putting Sano in the outfield is like a behind-the-back, bank shot off the light pole. Way too complicated. Just try him as DH and keep it simple. Lots of teams have guys who DH full time and DH only.

 

Not that complicated.

[TheLeviathan]

 

It is not going to destroy Sano to play a couple of positions.

 

St. Louis didn't have this fancy option called DH.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I mostly agree with this, but think he could play a game or two a week in RF without much problem.

 

Have him DH mostly, play 3B to spell Plouffe or Mauer (with Plouffe at 1B), and some games in RF to spell RF. Really good hitters have to move around the diamond a little to get their bat in the lineup, worked out OK for Miggy Cabrera and Pujols for example.

 

In '03 Cabrera played 55 games in LF and 34 games at 3B, despite never playing LF in the minors.

 

In '01 Pujols played 43 games at 1B, 55 games at 3B, 39 games in LF, 39 games in RF.

 

It is not going to destroy Sano to play a couple of positions.

Or, again, you could just put Trevor in right once a week if you must. It makes waaaaaay more sense than putting Miguel out there. Trevor has played OF in the past and it won't detract from him spending time figuring out how to hit MLB pitching.

 

Everything takes time and there are only so many hours in a day. Sano should be spending his days snagging balls at third and practicing in the cage to become the best MLB player possible, not running around the OF frantically trying to to learn a position he's never played and doing it at the highest level in the sport.

 

Every minute Miguel spends in the outfield is a minute he's not practicing his footwork at third or talking to Bruno about hitting. Consider that and then tell me how this OF business is a good idea again.

[Kwak]

 

I mostly agree with this, but think he could play a game or two a week in RF without much problem.

 

Have him DH mostly, play 3B to spell Plouffe or Mauer (with Plouffe at 1B), and some games in RF to spell RF. Really good hitters have to move around the diamond a little to get their bat in the lineup, worked out OK for Miggy Cabrera and Pujols for example.

 

In '03 Cabrera played 55 games in LF and 34 games at 3B, despite never playing LF in the minors.

 

In '01 Pujols played 43 games at 1B, 55 games at 3B, 39 games in LF, 39 games in RF.

 

It is not going to destroy Sano to play a couple of positions.

He hasn't even "learned" one yet.

[Vanimal46]

So now you want Sano to learn TWO new positions while figuring out MLB pitchers.

Brock, we've had a good discussion tonight and you bring up a persuasive point on Sano learning 2 new positions. I'll admit I got lost in the moment defending his ability to play in the OF regardless of having any games played at the position before.

 

My original post before this thread exploded was I want Sano to earn his way into the lineup and not be handed a starting job in the field on a silver platter. No question that Plouffe has the better glove and think he's earned his spot on the team in 2016. DH is there for the taking, and he'll play 3B when Plouffe needs the day off. However there's going to be opportunities to find playing time at 1B next year... And the transition from the corner IF to the OF can certainly happen in the MLB.

If it happens to be Plouffe filling in the gaps at 1B/OF, and Sano plays well enough plus sees more time at 3B, I'm sold.

[TheLeviathan]

 

He hasn't even "learned" one yet.

 

Not to mention Pujols actually played those positions in the minors before he was called up.

[Brock Beauchamp]

And that's fair. I don't want to see Plouffe lose his job to an untested prospect but thankfully, that's not an issue because every DH the Twins tried out in 2015 has loudly declared that they do not want the job. At least that's how it looks from here. The DH job is basically Miguel's for the taking.

[drjim]

 

Not to mention Pujols actually played those positions in the minors before he was called up.

 

That is not accurate and a little misleading. He played almost all 3B and two games total in LF. No time in RF or 1B. Darn near what Sano is right now.

[TheLeviathan]

 

That is not accurate and a little misleading. He played almost all 3B and two games total in LF. No time in RF or 1B. Darn near what Sano is right now.

 

You're right, I misread that on B-ref.  My apologies.

[drjim]

 

He hasn't even "learned" one yet.

 

In my mind that is part of the reason why you have him play a couple of spots. And playing mostly DH would really set back his defensive development.

[jokin]

Why does something have to be the end of the world to be a dumb thing to do?  Why mess with the progression of one of your best prospects when you don't have to?

When did I say something relating to end times? I'm not necessarily for or against this. But the Twins have now publicly indicated that putting Sano out in RF, perhaps either through the end of the season,and/or as long as Plouffe is here, is now a possibility. If Sano can be an answer with the bat, I'll go along with their assessment of the situation. Sano won't be too derailed in the field if he misses 3 months at 3rd (and do remedial reps at the position in winter ball).

 

Let's see if he gets some reps in the OF in the next couple weeks in Chattanooga, as further indication of their intent.

[TheLeviathan]

 

When did I say something relating to end times? I

 

Um, here:

 

"AND he has Buxton giving him a lot of cover by flanking him in CF, is it really the End of The World?"

[jokin]

I mostly agree with this, but think he could play a game or two a week in RF without much problem.

 

Have him DH mostly, play 3B to spell Plouffe or Mauer (with Plouffe at 1B), and some games in RF to spell RF. Really good hitters have to move around the diamond a little to get their bat in the lineup, worked out OK for Miggy Cabrera and Pujols for example.

 

In '03 Cabrera played 55 games in LF and 34 games at 3B, despite never playing LF in the minors.

 

In '01 Pujols played 43 games at 1B, 55 games at 3B, 39 games in LF, 39 games in RF.

 

It is not going to destroy Sano to play a couple of positions.

There you went and did it... (breaking the unwritten TD rule against comping HOF players with Twins prospects)...

[jokin]

Um, here:

 

"AND he has Buxton giving him a lot of cover by flanking him in CF, is it really the End of The World?"

Umm, that's right, it's sarcasm. Was I supposed to tag something so obvious? It's the other side of this discussion that is going off the deep end here. Again, Twins management appears to at least being willing to publicly consider this as a legitimate option.

[drjim]

 

There you went and did it... (breaking the unwritten TD rule against comping HOF players with Twins prospects)...

 

I know you're joking but I hope this wasn't taken as a comp or expectation, Sano is not the same type of hitter. But an interesting comparison of really good hitting 3B prospects that had a bat ready before their gloves and how they were handled as they broke into the majors. Lesser bats would probably remain in the minors until the glove was ready.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Umm, that's right, it's sarcasm. Was I supposed to tag something so obvious? It's the other side of this discussion that is going off the deep end here. Again, Twins management appears to at least being willing to publicly consider this as a legitimate option.

 

Well, you said something relating to the end of times, then took me literally when I used your same reference?  Um....ok, back to Sano I guess.

[jokin]

And that's fair. I don't want to see Plouffe lose his job to an untested prospect but thankfully, that's not an issue because every DH the Twins tried out in 2015 has loudly declared that they do not want the job. At least that's how it looks from here. The DH job is basically Miguel's for the taking.

This is exactly right. But the Twins have to decide if they are willing to give him the chance to take it.... or find one of several imperfect and probably unsatisfactory solutions at keeping him in the field, at least on a part time basis.

 

I prefer the full-time DH route for now, with an occasional assignment at 3rd.

[jokin]

I know you're joking but I hope this wasn't taken as a comp or expectation, Sano is not the same type of hitter. But an interesting comparison of really good hitting 3B prospects that had a bat ready before their gloves and how they were handled as they broke into the majors. Lesser bats would probably remain in the minors until the glove was ready.

It's all good. I just threw that in there to try to lighten the mood. Your comp was perfectly legit. And the important thing is, the Twins appear to be willing to make every effort at creatively finding a solution here, without messing too much with the long-term development of a top prospect.

[jokin]

Well, you said something relating to the end of times, then took me literally when I used your same reference?  Um....ok, back to Sano I guess.

Why do you think it's only about you? Other folks are expressing some pretty extreme positions about completely crippling some current delicate defensive balancing act, the timing for a bit of sarcasm seemed well-placed. Especially on a team where Arcia may still get some OF time before all is said and done, and of course the soon-to-be 40 year old RF (of whom the UZR and DRS Gods loathe already).

[jimbo92107]

To be fair to Kennys Vargas, I'd give him two more weeks to start showing some power. After that, I'd send him back down to AAA and replace him at DH with Miguel Sano. Work out Sano with Gene Glynn just like Glynn worked with Danny Santana, then gradually get him time at 3rd, with Plouffe either DH or spelling Mauer at 1B.

 

The book isn't written on any of this stuff. Sano might completely flop. Vargas might catch fire. Baseball is all about producing on the field, with a big crowd yelling and against the world's best opponents. Similarly, the book isn't written on Joe Mauer's attempts to become a power hitter, or on Danny Santana's comeback, or on Jorge Polanco's attempt to take over the SS job. This is what makes it fun to watch.

[jokin]

Berardino adds more fuel to the Sano fire, bewailing the Twins' lineup 5-hole woes, and confirming signals that a change appears to be in the works ("Twins Need Another Bopper Badly"):

 

"One of the reasons the Twins could wind up promoting Miguel Sano sooner than expected is the trouble they’re having in the middle of the order...

 

No wonder Twins’ No. 5 hitters entered the day ranked in the MLB bottom six in isolated power (25th), slugging (26th), combined on-base/slugging (28th), weighted runs created (29th), home runs (tied for last) and hard-contact rate (30th).

 

And no wonder Molitor is growing more intrigued by the day when it comes to the idea of calling up Sano from Double-A Chattanooga."

 

I knew it was bad, and many on this forum have been pointing out the absurdity of some of the players assigned to the #5 spot in the order, but it's difficult to believe that this team has a winning record with that type of production from the very heart of the order.

 

 

http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2015/06/16/postgame-twinsights-twins-need-another-bopper-badly/

[tobi0040]

 

Berardino adds more fuel to the Sano fire, bewailing the Twins' lineup 5-hole woes, and confirming signals that a change appears to be in the works ("Twins Need Another Bopper Badly"):

"One of the reasons the Twins could wind up promoting Miguel Sano sooner than expected is the trouble they’re having in the middle of the order...

No wonder Twins’ No. 5 hitters entered the day ranked in the MLB bottom six in isolated power (25th), slugging (26th), combined on-base/slugging (28th), weighted runs created (29th), home runs (tied for last) and hard-contact rate (30th).

And no wonder Molitor is growing more intrigued by the day when it comes to the idea of calling up Sano from Double-A Chattanooga."

I knew it was bad, and many on this forum have been pointing out the absurdity of some of the players assigned to the #5 spot in the order, but it's difficult to believe that this team has a winning record with that type of production from the very heart of the order.


http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2015/06/16/postgame-twinsights-twins-need-another-bopper-badly/

 

We absolutely need a better DH to hit in the middle of the order and I would put Sano there.  But this #5 spot in the order thing has a little to do with lineup construction as well.  Suzuki never had any business there, but had 18 games where he has avearged a .200 BA.  13 hits, only 5 XBH in 18 games (no 3B or HR).

 

Vargas has played 35 games with a .601 OPS, yet he hit 5th in over half his games. He has hit 3rd twice and clean up 3 times.

 

I will have to say I have been pleased with most of the things Molitor has done, but it looks like the thought he  has put into the lineup is on par with Gardy.

 

 

[Lefty]

 

FYI, Plouffe is out of options.  He can't be sent down to work on things.

Sorry, I was just throwing out the names of our best players as examples.  You are most likely correct.

[Mike Sixel]

Sano's value is his bat. Plouffe is the 2nd or 3rd best player on the roster right now. Tossing him aside makes no sense. He's a top 10 3B. It boggles my mind that people think Sano should play 3B while Plouffe is on this roster. Stick Sano at 1B and get us the inevitable future now.

 

IMO, Sano should DH and play 1B and 3B, with Plouffe at1B when Sano is at 3B. Mauer can't even make easy choices in the field at this point.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Unfortunately, the team is not going to toss Mauer aside. If there's a nagging injury, I'd have no problem putting him on the 15 day DL and letting Sano man first for 2 weeks, but right now, Sano is blocked. That's just that. I'd imagine Vargas will get to the ASB to figure things out. If he doesn't, I wouldn't be surprised if Sano gets an extended summer trial at DH. If he can demonstrate that he can hit ML pitching, then Plouffe gets traded in the offseason. 

[Kwak]

 

We absolutely need a better DH to hit in the middle of the order and I would put Sano there.  But this #5 spot in the order thing has a little to do with lineup construction as well.  Suzuki never had any business there, but had 18 games where he has avearged a .200 BA.  13 hits, only 5 XBH in 18 games (no 3B or HR).

 

Vargas has played 35 games with a .601 OPS, yet he hit 5th in over half his games. He has hit 3rd twice and clean up 3 times.

 

I will have to say I have been pleased with most of the things Molitor has done, but it looks like the thought he  has put into the lineup is on par with Gardy.

The line-up?  It's not that Molitor has a "salad bowl" line-up--the problem is that those expected to be middle-of-the-line-up hitters are batting early (1,2, or 3) or are such liabilities in the field that playing them is actually a negative.  The "earlies" are the guys producing the runs. Sadly, they are there because those at the bottom of the line-up "can't hit, get on-base enough" to justify batting first or second.  So the RF and 1B (on most teams in the middle) aren't because the rest of the team is so bad.  Dovetail that with guys like Arcia (Vargas and some already departed) and the #5 hole is manned by somebody who doesn't belong there.  One added point to whose batting 5th--the Escobar/Santana deal.  Molitor wanted Santana to be his SS and Ryan wanted Escobar--so they compromised and played Escobar in LF.  LF is a position often associated with a middle-of-the-line-up post, but it was manned by Escobar and the bench players.  Leaving [who] to bat 5th?