Miguel Sano How Soon Is Now?

[tobi0040]

 

The line-up?  It's not that Molitor has a "salad bowl" line-up--the problem is that those expected to be middle-of-the-line-up hitters are batting early (1,2, or 3) or are such liabilities in the field that playing them is actually a negative.  The "earlies" are the guys producing the runs. Sadly, they are there because those at the bottom of the line-up "can't hit, get on-base enough" to justify batting first or second.  So the RF and 1B (on most teams in the middle) aren't because the rest of the team is so bad.  Dovetail that with guys like Arcia (Vargas and some already departed) and the #5 hole is manned by somebody who doesn't belong there.  One added point to whose batting 5th--the Escobar/Santana deal.  Molitor wanted Santana to be his SS and Ryan wanted Escobar--so they compromised and played Escobar in LF.  LF is a position often associated with a middle-of-the-line-up post, but it was manned by Escobar and the bench players.  Leaving [who] to bat 5th?

 

List of guys with better than Vargas’s .601 OPS, min 50 AB’s

 

Dozier  .878
Nunez  .841
Plouffe  .757
Hunter .740
Arcia   .718
Rosario .704
Mauer .664
Escobar  .624
Robinson  .622

 

For guys hitting better than Suzuki’s .587, you can add :

 

Hicks .594
Hermann .592

 

 

 

[USAFChief]

List of guys with better than Vargas’s .601 OPS, min 50 AB’s

 

Dozier  .878

Nunez  .841

Plouffe  .757

Hunter .740

Arcia   .718

Rosario .704

Mauer .664

Escobar  .624

Robinson  .622

 

For guys hitting better than Suzuki’s .587, you can add :

 

Hicks .594

Hermann .592

Dozier, Plouffe, Mauer, and Hunter are only candidates for the 5 hole if you move them from spots above the 5 hole.

 

Someday, maybe Rosario is a candidate, ideally that isn't now.

 

The rest of your list? Are you seriously suggesting the problem can be solved by putting Shane Robinson in the lineup regularly? Hermann?

 

They are missing middle of the order bats. They don't have ANY (given what Mauer has become), much less multiple options plus whoever is occupying those spots now.

[tobi0040]

 

Dozier, Plouffe, Mauer, and Hunter are only candidates for the 5 hole if you move them from spots above the 5 hole.

Someday, maybe Rosario is a candidate, ideally that isn't now.

The rest of your list? Are you seriously suggesting the problem can be solved by putting Shane Robinson in the lineup regularly? Hermann?

They are missing middle of the order bats. They don't have ANY (given what Mauer has become), much less multiple options plus whoever is occupying those spots now.

 

 

I agreed with the notion that we need more bats (and support Sano to be that bat).  But Dozier, Mauer, Hunter, and Plouffe have been starters all year.  At the beginning of the year, Arcia was also a starter. Escobar has played a ton. Nunez and Robinson have played a fair amount. 

 

Suzuki has hit 2, 3, or 5 in 46% of the games and he has an OPS of .580.  Have our options been so bad that this makes sense, or should he have been hitting lower in the order?

 

I am not advocating for Robinson or Hermann to be a regular, but they have played a bit and in any one game, we have one or more of these guys who would should be hitting in front of Suzuki. I am of the belief that we have had better options night in and night out to hit 2, 3, or 5.

[SwainZag]

 

So I guess Molitor's losing his "damned mind" for his public musing on just this distinct possibility of just such a move to RF for Sano, is the HOF manager "ridiculous", too? The Twins probably prefer to put someone else there, but today's article indicates they haven't ruled it out by any means.

 

In the interview Molitor said he thinks Sano is athletic enough and playing the OF is not out of the realm of possibilities.  It's such a general statement.  Does it mean now? In the future?  I highly doubt they would have Miguel learn RF on the fly in the big leagues.

 

Molitor is a HOF player and a 1st year manager.  Calling him a HOF manager might be worded a little wrong.

[SwainZag]

 

Sano's value is his bat. Plouffe is the 2nd or 3rd best player on the roster right now. Tossing him aside makes no sense. He's a top 10 3B. It boggles my mind that people think Sano should play 3B while Plouffe is on this roster. Stick Sano at 1B and get us the inevitable future now.

 

IMO, Sano should DH and play 1B and 3B, with Plouffe at1B when Sano is at 3B. Mauer can't even make easy choices in the field at this point.

 

I haven't gotten to see that many games lately, but is Joe really doing that badly in the field?

 

For the month of June:

 

Top 10 3B: .148/.190/.296

Mauer:  .173/.271/.250

Hunter: .208/.296/.271

 

If your name isn't Dozier, no one is hitting since the calendar turned over to May....it's not just Joe.

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I haven't gotten to see that many games lately, but is Joe really doing that badly in the field?

 

For the month of June:

 

Top 10 3B: .148/.190/.296

Mauer:  .173/.271/.250

Hunter: .208/.296/.271

 

If your name isn't Dozier, no one is hitting since the calendar turned over to May....it's not just Joe.

True, if you only look at June, and every player is prone to slumps sometime.  But it's not just June for Joe.

 

For the month of May:

Top 10 3B: .312/.381/.570, .951 OPS
Mauer:  .240/.278/.340, .618 OPS
Hunter: .333/.391/.566, .957 OPS

 

April was much better for Joe, but even that was only an .804 OPS.  When that's your "peak" month, you might be closer to .700 OPS "true talent" level, which isn't good out of a lineup fixture at 1B.

 

Also, Joe has just looked lost at the plate lately.  Taking pitches he shouldn't, etc.

[Otto von Ballpark]

In regards to Schwarber, if we had lost just one more game in 2013, we could have had the opportunity to draft him instead of Nick Gordon.  (Not trying to pick on Gordon, just noting that.)

[drjim]

 

In regards to Schwarber, if we had lost just one more game in 2013, we could have had the opportunity to draft him instead of Nick Gordon.  (Not trying to pick on Gordon, just noting that.)

 

Doubtful they would have, Schwarber was considered an overdraft at the time.

 

And way, way too early to conclude this is the wrong move anyways. If Schwarber ends up as a corner OF (which most analysts assume) it certainly won't be that obvious.

[tobi0040]

 

Doubtful they would have, Schwarber was considered an overdraft at the time.

 

And way, way too early to conclude this is the wrong move anyways. If Schwarber ends up as a corner OF (which most analysts assume) it certainly won't be that obvious.

 

It is too early. But I have to say that when one of the first things cited about a guy is "bloodlines", my typical response is cringing.

[jokin]

In the interview Molitor said he thinks Sano is athletic enough and playing the OF is not out of the realm of possibilities.  It's such a general statement.  Does it mean now? In the future?  I highly doubt they would have Miguel learn RF on the fly in the big leagues.

 

Molitor is a HOF player and a 1st year manager.  Calling him a HOF manager might be worded a little wrong.

Worded a little wrong, perhaps. But's he's in the HOF, and he's a manager, so there's that. And despite previous statements from the braintrust, the HOF manager, has willingly staked his reputation to a What If? query... and has now willingly opened a window into the brainturst's current musings on a possible 2015 MLB role for Sano.

[Sam Morley]

 

Trevor Plouffe played exactly 1 game in LF in his minor league career prior to the Twins shifting him to RF when he was initially struggling at 3rd. I see no issue with having Sano play in either corner OF spot or 1B as he learns on the job in his rookie year.

 

EDIT: Should he be training now at AA with tracking fly balls? Absolutely. Maybe he already is. But he's actively learning one of the toughest positions on the diamond right now, and I value gaining all of that experience at 3B in the minors. They desperately want him to stick at 3B. In a pinch, it shouldn't be considered "insanity" to think he's not able to survive in the OF when that's the most natural transition for most failed or over the hill corner IF's.

To be clear, I don't think it's crazy for him to make a controlled transition to playing OF. I think it's crazy to call him up and stick him in right. Your example of Plouffe definitely takes some strength out of my assertion, but I think the circumstances with Plouffe were different. The team was struggling, and I think they were desperately trying to find a place for him to play. He was already in the big leagues, and he was failing miserably at his current position. 2012 was the season he hit 24 dingers, so he was having too much success at the plate to take him out of the lineup and send him down to learn OF. I don't remember how all that played out- if he moved to third because he played poorly in right, or what, but he didn't last long out there- and those teams had some pretty lousy outfielders. 

[Sam Morley]

 

Based on your comment, I'm assuming then that you feel that the HOF manager is 99.9% insane? And has absolutely no appreciation for or understanding of the challenges in RF? Really?

I don't know what Molitor said about it. Haven't read it yet. link it for me, if you have it, please. Obviously, I don't think Molitor is insane. Neither do I think he would put someone in RF who has not had any preparation for playing RF. If Molitor puts Sano in right, then Sano has been preparing, at least in practice or something, but it would still take some authority away from my comment for sure. If we were talking about left, I'd be much less insistent, but RF is really hard. From my experience, I'd much rather play center than right. The ball just does really weird things over there. 

 

Also, I definitely think Sano has the ability to be a good right fielder. He for sure has the arm, and from everything I've seen, he runs pretty well. 

 

Also, even though I think it's crazy, I would rather see him in RF in a Twins uniform than not see him in a Twins uniform.

[jokin]

Also, even though I think it's crazy, I would rather see him in RF in a Twins uniform than not see him in a Twins uniform.

I'm pretty well convinced that you, me and Molitor are on the same page with this...

[Vanimal46]

 

To be clear, I don't think it's crazy for him to make a controlled transition to playing OF. I think it's crazy to call him up and stick him in right. Your example of Plouffe definitely takes some strength out of my assertion, but I think the circumstances with Plouffe were different. The team was struggling, and I think they were desperately trying to find a place for him to play. He was already in the big leagues, and he was failing miserably at his current position. 2012 was the season he hit 24 dingers, so he was having too much success at the plate to take him out of the lineup and send him down to learn OF. I don't remember how all that played out- if he moved to third because he played poorly in right, or what, but he didn't last long out there- and those teams had some pretty lousy outfielders. 

 

Yeah I can't recall the exact reasoning of Plouffe heading out to RF in 2011-12. That was during my Haight-Ashbury days in college. Like you mentioned that was the year he hit 24 dingers, and he certainly wasn't the fielder like he is today. I'm sure we had Punto or someone like him playing 3rd in those seasons.

 

Sorry for going on a message binge with you and Brock last night. Just felt the need to defend Sano's ability to play in the OF if the Twins choose to go in that direction.

[jokin]

I'm pretty well convinced that you, me and Molitor are on the same page with this...

That was during my Haight-Ashbury days in college.

 

Sorry for going on a message binge with you and Brock last night. Just felt the need to defend Sano's ability to play in the OF if the Twins choose to go in that direction.

And it sounds like we can throw Vanimal in there, as well.

 

Let's see if we can get our own former Haight-Ashbury guy (a wee bit older, I think) on this train, as well...

[Sam Morley]

 

Yeah I can't recall the exact reasoning of Plouffe heading out to RF in 2011-12. That was during my Haight-Ashbury days in college. Like you mentioned that was the year he hit 24 dingers, and he certainly wasn't the fielder like he is today. I'm sure we had Punto or someone like him playing 3rd in those seasons.

 

Sorry for going on a message binge with you and Brock last night. Just felt the need to defend Sano's ability to play in the OF if the Twins choose to go in that direction.

No need for the apology, my friend. I deserved some pointed feedback for dropping "99.9% insane". I agree that he can do it. I'm sure he can judge and track a fly ball. I'm sure he has the quickness and the wheels. I'm sure he has the arm. I'm sure he knows the situational throws. It's the tailing liner from right handed batter that you need a lot of experience to field. It looks like it's coming right to you, and then it just takes off away toward the line. Also, finding the wall and making the catch is hard to learn. Most major league outfielders make those plays look so routine you don't even think about it, but they are really hard. 

[Sam Morley]

 

I'm pretty well convinced that you, me and Molitor are on the same page with this...

It feels pretty good to be on the same page with a hall of famer, doesn't it?

[jokin]

It feels pretty good to be on the same page with a hall of famer, doesn't it?

Got that right. I know and especially appreciate that he's been Rosario's biggest advocate from early on in Spring Training, and stuck with him, even pushing for his promotion when Rosario's numbers were underwhelming in Rochester. His tough love in ST with Hicks at least served to help Hicks look a lot more like a major league ballplayer than in season's past. I liked him sticking with Nunez, even when many were wondering if it was already past time to send him packing. I like how he's handled and stuck with the pitching staff, expecting more from both the starters and relievers- sticking with the guys that started out so shaky, like Boyer and Gibson.

 

And I especially like that he's now publicly dangling the promotion carrot out to Miguel Sano.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Anyone have any data on how long a UCL recovery is for a position player?

[tobi0040]

 

Anyone have any data on how long a UCL recovery is for a position player?

 

If memory serves, it is about 6-9 months.  I believe Sano had it last March-ish and could hve played winter ball. 

[jimmer]

'Based on your comment, I'm assuming then that you feel that the HOF manager is 99.9% insane?'

 

HOF player, rookie manager (never managed anywhere until this year) ;-)

[jokin]

While Sano continues an incredible, but somehow, under-the-radar stretch of hitting over nearly the last 2 months in AA,  CBS Sports Mike Axisa has taken notice via Sano's latest "snub":

 

 

 

June 27 Prospect Watch: Sano among Futures Game omissions
By Mike Axisa |

THREE NOTABLE OMISSIONS

It's unfair to call these players "snubs" because, as we saw with Dodgers infielder Corey Seager, sometimes the player was not given permission to participate by his team. That could be for many reasons, including an imminent call-up. (Though players who are called up are replaced on the roster anyway.) Omissions is a better word than snubs.

3B Miguel Sano, Twins: I figured Sano, the best power-hitting prospect in the minors, was a lock for the Futures Game, though he was selected during his last healthy season back in 2013. MLB likes to change it up and get as many new faces in the game as possible each year, so perhaps Sano was left off the roster for that reason.

Anyway, the 22-year-old Sano returned from Tommy John this season and is hitting .255/.353/.515 with 14 home runs in 63 Double-A games. I have to think a promotion to Triple-A will come soon. Most of baseball's top power prospects are in the big leagues now -- guys like Kris Bryant and Joey Gallo -- so batting practice at the Futures Game will be short on majestic blasts. Sano is the one guy who could have put on a huge show for fans in attendance.

 

So, one of the main takes here is the possibility that the Twins want to maintain the option of an early call-up.  It's almost impossible to believe that the Futures Game committee wouldn't include Sano without pretty big extenuating circumstances.  

 

Sooo, 3 potential scenarios are in place:

 

1) Axisa (and many TD members) think a bump to AAA will come soon,

 

2) Many others see him making the full jump to the Twins, as in the case of Buxton,

 

3) I suppose there is one more group that urge continued patience in AA, especially without an obvious position to play, while he works some more on his defense and gets his BA above his current .266.

 

As the calendar turns again this Wednesday, and an upcoming critical series in Kansas City is looming,  which camp do you reside in?  And why?

[diehardtwinsfan]

Personally, in camp 1, as I suspect AAA is coming soon.  He's not really being blocked there.  Though I think you've distorted what Axisa said just a bit.  He's not claiming that the Twins didn't give permission, just that it's possible they didn't.  He also mentions the fact that Sano was already there, and as such MLB may not have chosen him.   

[drjim]

The likeliest explanation in my mind is Kepler is having a representative year, the world needed 1B, and they wanted to expand the countries represented in the game.

 

I think a jump to the majors before AAA is the most likely outcome.

[jokin]

 

The likeliest explanation in my mind is Kepler is having a representative year, the world needed 1B, and they wanted to expand the countries represented in the game.

 

I think a jump to the majors before AAA is the most likely outcome.

 

#2.... That's my guess on Sano, too.  Molitor declining to use Vargas today in multiple PH situations indicates he doesn't have much faith in Kennys, Arcia still seems a ways away, Sano is the obvious alternative.  Nothing has changed on the Twins glaring need for another big bat in the middle of the order.  And there's no reason for holding back Sano from the Futures Game with options #1 or #3.

[jokin]

 

The likeliest explanation in my mind is Kepler is having a representative year, the world needed 1B, and they wanted to expand the countries represented in the game.

 

 

 

Still head-scratching that you wouldn't want the best power bat option on the World squad- and a big-time name already familiar with many fans.  Just the pre-game home run hitting exhibition alone would be sure to draw in more fans.

[formerly33]

It's like déjà vu all over again.

[jokin]

 

It's like déjà vu all over again.

 

Or..... it's like a continually evolving story about one of the potential future cornerstones, perhaps even a generational, Twins superstar, and the story is ever-quickening, as other Top 25 prospects have been promoted around the League in June, and as Sano continues to tear up the Southern League at an even more intense pace than since this thread was begun on June 8th.... and along the way,  made all the more interesting when Molitor came out one week after this thread was started and mentioned that Sano was actively being considered for promotion.

[formerly33]

 

Or..... it's like a continually evolving story about one of the potential future cornerstones, perhaps even a generational, Twins superstar, and the story is ever-quickening, as other Top 25 prospects have been promoted around the League in June, and as Sano continues to tear up the Southern League at an even more intense pace than since this thread was begun on June 8th.... and along the way,  made all the more interesting when Molitor came out one week after this thread was started and mentioned that Sano was actively being considered for promotion, immediately resulting the creation of another thread on the same topic.

FIFY.

[jokin]

 

FIFY.

 

So isn't the question of merging of threads up to the discretion of the moderators?  I don't see how it's any of my, or of yours, concern, on this forum anyway?  I'm here to discuss Twins baseball issues that are currently of the most interest to myself.  You've previously discussed the matter of overlapping topics in the area of TD where it belongs, why bring it here?  I'd much rather hear what you have to say about what to do with Sano than to non-topically grafitti-ize a baseball thread.