Nunez Activated, Vargas Optioned

[Craig Arko]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fabric_of_Reality, just to help me and others  I think lol lol

Yes, I think Popper is particularly appropriate here. Or The Onion, just because.

[Willihammer]

https://twitter.com/MillerStrib/status/600091807809015808

[bird]

 

    It seems possible that there's something we don't know about that precipitated this move.

 

Probable even.

[Otto von Ballpark]

And the argument that Vargas isn't going to get enough PAs up here is circular reasoning -- the only reason he isn't getting enough PAs up here is because Molitor already decided he needed Escobar in the lineup every day, in addition to Mauer becoming an iron man (seriously, Mauer is on pace for 158 games started this year).

 

It's similar to the argument against Pinto -- of course Pinto can't get many reps up here if we insist on starting Suzuki behind the plate 130 times this season, and rotating Hunter, Mauer, Escobar, etc. in the DH spot.

 

Molitor basically started benching Vargas a week ago, after Vargas played 7 consecutive games and was 10-26 with 2 HR, 2 BB, and only 4 K's.  Vargas isn't a perfect hitter by any means but evidence strongly suggests that this was based on factors other than Vargas' development as a hitter or an objective analysis of hitting skill -- namely, positional flexibility (Escobar, Nunez) and defense/seniority (Mauer, Hunter, others).

[Squirrel]

Regarding the Bernier angst, is it possible that the team will trade out Pinto for Bernier after Josmil plays today? How far is it from Rochester NY to Pittsburgh (I'm guessing it is a car ride)? Adding Pinto would "free up" Herrmann to play other positions if needed (especially in an NL park) while giving the Twins a home run-capable bat on the bench. At this point, I believe Pinto is a better hitter than Vargas and Vargas can be helped more by regular ABs in Rochester.

 

Long term, this doesn't help the too many bat-first corner guys problem, but for the next week, it would make the roster more suited to win games in both Chicago and Pittsburgh.

I hope you're right, and that the Nunez move was just the first. I'll be checking the news up until game time tomorrow.

[nicksaviking]

 

That's because we're not done discussing the mess caused by the Boyer decision.

 

Or the mess caused by the first Stauffer decision.

[bird]

 

Or the mess caused by the first Stauffer decision.

 

 

And what about that Thompson mess?

 

[jokin]

 

And what about that Thompson mess?

 

Do you mean yesterday?

 

0.3 IP  4 H 3 ER ERA 81.00  FIP -2.85

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Regarding the Bernier angst, is it possible that the team will trade out Pinto for Bernier after Josmil plays today?

They did wait until after the Monday night Rochester game last week to officially call up Hicks, but I think that was more due to uncertainty around Robinson & Schafer.  There is no such uncertainty around Bernier right now, that I am aware of.  So why risk that Pinto gets dinged tonight in Rochester, or a flight gets delayed, etc.?

 

Plus, Rochester has a doubleheader beginning at 11 AM Tuesday, and Pinto and Fryer are the only two catches on their roster, I think.  (EDIT: Just noticed Allan de San Miguel is on their roster but on the DL and he hasn't played all year.  I guess if he was ready to be activated, this could be a possibility, but I am not sure why they'd wait in this case.)

[jokin]

 

They did wait until after the Monday night Rochester game last week to officially call up Hicks, but I think that was more due to uncertainty around Robinson & Schafer.  There is no such uncertainty around Bernier right now, that I am aware of.  So why risk that Pinto gets dinged tonight in Rochester, or a flight gets delayed, etc.?

 

Plus, Rochester has a doubleheader beginning at 11 AM Tuesday, and Pinto and Fryer are the only two catches on their roster, I think.

 

I would assume that the taxi squad catcher, Allan de San Miguel is ready to be activated the moment that Pinto would get the call-up, so I don't think the Twins can use that as an excuse.

[spinowner]

 

They did wait until after the Monday night Rochester game last week to officially call up Hicks, but I think that was more due to uncertainty around Robinson & Schafer.  There is no such uncertainty around Bernier right now, that I am aware of.  So why risk that Pinto gets dinged tonight in Rochester, or a flight gets delayed, etc.?

 

Plus, Rochester has a doubleheader beginning at 11 AM Tuesday, and Pinto and Fryer are the only two catches on their roster, I think.

 

 

I would assume that the taxi squad catcher, Allan de San Miguel is ready to be activated the moment that Pinto would get the call-up, so I don't think the Twins can use that as an excuse.

Herrmann could catch for Rochester on Tuesday.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Herrmann could catch for Rochester on Tuesday.

The original poster's suggestion was that Herrmann would stay with the MLB club in addition to Pinto, rather than Bernier.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I would assume that the taxi squad catcher, Allan de San Miguel is ready to be activated the moment that Pinto would get the call-up, so I don't think the Twins can use that as an excuse.

You could be right.  I just noticed Allan de San Miguel and I have no idea about his status -- he's apparently been on the 7-day concussion DL all season...?

 

But I really think Molitor just likes a regular lineup that doesn't include Vargas, it's as simple as that.  Pretty much the same thing that happened to Pinto with Gardy last year too.  Not that these guys don't have things to work on, as every player does, but using those kind of justifications as the primary impetus for these moves assumes a level of accuracy and precision in scouting and development that just isn't there.

 

The performances of Pinto and Vargas generally weren't that great in MLB, and they got passed over by other starting options.  Simple, really.

[Willihammer]

I'm trying to make sense of this move and this is the best I can come up with.

 

The Twins will return to AL play on May 22. Arcia will be available to come off the DL by that point. They could ease Arcia into regular playing time by slotting him at DH while giving Rosario an extended look and continuing to play Escobar everyday in left.

[nicksaviking]

This isn't his first injury, and maybe it's just me, but Arcia has seemed slow to re-adjust.  I'm a believer in him and want him starting, but I wouldn't be opposed to a rehab assignment to help him shake the rust off.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I'm trying to make sense of this move and this is the best I can come up with.

 

The Twins will return to AL play on May 22. Arcia will be available to come off the DL by that point. They could ease Arcia into regular playing time by slotting him at DH while giving Rosario an extended look and continuing to play Escobar everyday in left.

Arcia isn't even ready to take live batting practice yet:

 

http://m.twins.mlb.com/news/article/124938218/injured-twins-pitcher-casey-fien-progressing-toward-returns

 

He's not coming off the DL on Friday.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I see "the benefit of not playing him" as a practical matter...the Twins are once again playing with a 24 man roster instead of 25. Whether that's because they wait around for a week with an injury, or to carry someone who won't play is pretty much the same thing.

If they want to send down Vargas once Arcia returns, wait till then. For now let Rosario play OF, and Escobar be the utility infielder. Vargas will get enough ABs, or he shouldn't have made the team out of spring training.

Somebody needs to be the 25th man (and Bernier actually is a player, and will play, so your 24 man argument is phoey, or it's one you should have been making before Vargas was sent down).  If Molitor is going to send Rosario, Escobar, Nunez or whoever ahead of Vargas to pinch hit, it's not horrible to have the 25th who can offer defensive flexibility, especially when it's probably just for short duration until Arcia comes back.  

 

The plan was probably to send Vargas down, not to keep Bernier up.   Things have clearly changed since Spring Training, and the plan should be to do what's best for both Vargas and the Twins long term.  Not to maximize Vargas value as semi-player until other players get healthy.  The sooner he goes down the sooner he can correct what caused him to go down.  

 

I just think that Vargas' longterm development outweighs whatever minimal production he could give the Twins in the interim.  Bernier is an easy target because he's an old, career minor leaguer, it's not like he traded roster spots with Vargas--if he had, the shade you're throwing the Twins would be a lot more founded.  

 

If your argument is: "I don't trust the Twins to handle player development," well then there's no discussion to be had, and let's leave it at that.   

[Willihammer]

 

Arcia isn't even ready to take live batting practice yet:

 

http://m.twins.mlb.com/news/article/124938218/injured-twins-pitcher-casey-fien-progressing-toward-returns

 

He's not coming off the DL on Friday.

Huh, well then I am truly at a loss.

[jokin]

 

That's because we're not done discussing the mess caused by the Boyer decision.

 

Boyer is a great story, but Jeff Gray was a "great story" when he started out with the Twins in 2012.   

 

I like Boyer the human being, but how much is there to like about his numbers just below the surface-

 

Do we like his May BABIP?   .227

Do we like his unsustainable May strand rate of.....  100%?

Do we like his May K%?       7.7%

Do we like his May K/9?        2.70

Do we like his May HR/FB?   0.0%  (unsustainable)

Do we think his RP bottom 20 LD% (26.6%), coupled with a Lo-K% can sustain effectiveness? 

Do we think he more closely resembles the April Blaine Boyer?-  .292/.333/.511/(.845) OPS+ 138

or the May Blaine Boyer?-  .200/.240/.250/ (.490)  OPS + 37

[jokin]

 

Arcia isn't even ready to take live batting practice yet:

 

http://m.twins.mlb.com/news/article/124938218/injured-twins-pitcher-casey-fien-progressing-toward-returns

 

He's not coming off the DL on Friday.

 

Thanks, spycake- and one more pillar of the "magical mystery move" theory crumbles into dust..  Some of us have been saying for some time now that Arcia was likely to require some rehab time in Rochester, and he's still not ready to take BP.

[Squirrel]

 

 

The plan was probably to send Vargas down, not to keep Bernier up.

This. This is why I wish I knew more behind this decision. There is probably a larger plan at play here with more decisions coming as other players come off the DL or need more time in the minors for development. Or maybe they wanted more defensive options? Who knows.

 

While I find this decision in and of itself baffling, I won't begin to speculate and 'wtf' until I see a few more pieces and then I'll be either 'ahaaa' or still 'wtf.'

[Mike Sixel]

Sorry, but again, if Vargas fixes whatever the "issue" is, where does he fit on this roster at all this year?

[Jham]

 

If you really think the 2015 Twins are in a position to win the WS then I can see how you'd want to win as many games as possible this season. As for me, I'll repeat that at this stage of the rebuilding process the W-L record takes a back seat to player development. That doesn't mean the players on the major league roster should not try to win games; of course they should. And PM should manage to win games as long as the prime directive of preparing young players to contend in the next 1-2 years is not compromised. Possibly next year and certainly two years from now I expect the Twins to have a win-it-all-this-year mentality.

 

I think the team learning to win, learning to play in high-pressure games, learning to grind for a full season, and learning to hate losing helps the team this year, next year, and the following year.  People assume that Hunter, Pelfrey, Escobar, etc will not be part of the future of this team.  Many assume that Pinto, Vargas, Arcia, Santana, Meyer, etc. will be.  In fact, some of the former category may stick for a couple more years, and some of the latter may fizzle out.  I get pretty sick of the "at least then we'll know" argument.  Three years later and we're still trying to figure out Hicks.  Is a player no good, or just not ready?  Fielding a team full of prospects probably hurts player development.  I suspect calling players up too soon may well also stunt development.
 

Most teams use their farm system to develop players, not their major league team.  As long as your farm system has that ability, winning at the major league level should not hinder the development of prospects at the minor league level.  

 

Winning drives ticket sales which also fuel free-agent spending when you are at the cusp or need to retain talent.  (insert cheap shot at the Polads here).  This team learning to win and compete is the most important part of "player development" at this point and going forward.  

[Jham]

 

Sorry, but again, if Vargas fixes whatever the "issue" is, where does he fit on this roster at all this year?

 

If Vargas figures things out, I'm pretty sure we'll find room for him as our DH.  Arcia will ideally play left with Escobar playing the super utility role.  This essentially puts players back at their roles coming out of the gates.  I'm fairly certain we just want a little longer look at Rosario, or possibly we're hoping another team takes a look at Rosario or Hicks and likes what they see.  Either way, I do not think Vargas will be down long.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Boyer is a great story, but Jeff Gray was a "great story" when he started out with the Twins in 2012. 

I was about to correct you, but I completely forgot that Gray got off to a decent start with the 2012 Twins.  On this date in 2012, Gray had 17 innings of 2.12 ERA (with zero unearned runs) and 4 of 13 inherited runners had scored, compared to Boyer's current line of 19 innings of 2.37 ERA (plus an earned run) and 4 of 9 inherited runners scored.  Both had limited strikeout abilities, but Boyer has exhibited better control (both in 2014 and this year), and has been in more of the traditional setup man role.

[jokin]

 

If Vargas figures things out, I'm pretty sure we'll find room for him as our DH.  Arcia will ideally play left with Escobar playing the super utility role.  This essentially puts players back at their roles coming out of the gates.  I'm fairly certain we just want a little longer look at Rosario, or possibly we're hoping another team takes a look at Rosario or Hicks and likes what they see.  Either way, I do not think Vargas will be down long.

 

Arcia isn't ready.  Vargas has been mashing since April 29.  There's room for Vargas as the DH now.  Still have one too many utility infielders.

[PseudoSABR]

I'd just like to say that it's fine not to agree with something the Twins do, or to disagree with an explanation a poster gives to explain their behavior.  What I think is problematic is suggesting that the reasoning is beyond comprehension, that it's totally mysterious, that there can be no reasonable explanation.  The exasperation in this thread is honestly skin-curdling. It doesn't create a discussion, it creates a mob, where credible arguments are scoffed at and the exasperated rally continues on.

 

(I'm not sure I even agree with the move, given that I don't really know Vargas' developmental need.  The tone of the thread isn't really allowing a middle ground.)

[jokin]

 

I'd just like to say that it's fine not to agree with something the Twins do, or to disagree with an explanation a poster gives to explain their behavior.  What I think is problematic is suggesting that the reasoning is beyond comprehension, that it's totally mysterious, that there can be no reasonable explanation.  The exasperation in this thread is honestly skin-curdling. It doesn't create a discussion, it creates a mob, where credible arguments are scoffed at and the exasperated rally continues on.

 

Just like in a chess match, this is what happens when a grandmaster makes an obvious blunder- may I suggest, many of us find this move "honestly skin-curdling."  Neither TR, Molly or you, have as of yet provided that "reasonable explanation" or "credible argument" that would quell "the mob."

[jokin]

 

I was about to correct you, but I completely forgot that Gray got off to a decent start with the 2012 Twins.  On this date in 2012, Gray had 17 innings of 2.12 ERA (with zero unearned runs) and 4 of 13 inherited runners had scored, compared to Boyer's current line of 19 innings of 2.37 ERA (plus an earned run) and 4 of 9 inherited runners scored.  Both had limited strikeout abilities, but Boyer has exhibited better control (both in 2014 and this year), and has been in more of the traditional setup man role.

 

The warning signs were there for Gray in 2012, and they are there for Boyer in 2014 (his strikeout abilities are practically non-existent).

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

If Vargas figures things out, I'm pretty sure we'll find room for him as our DH.  Arcia will ideally play left with Escobar playing the super utility role.  This essentially puts players back at their roles coming out of the gates.  I'm fairly certain we just want a little longer look at Rosario, or possibly we're hoping another team takes a look at Rosario or Hicks and likes what they see.  Either way, I do not think Vargas will be down long.

But all of those goals and roles could be accomplished with Vargas staying as the regular DH right now.

 

The difference is that Molitor has not been playing Escobar as a utility player, but rather as an everyday player.