Thielbar Optioned, Bullpen Set

[ashbury]

 

Depends on the role.  On paper, he is better than Swarzak

Hadn't thought to look up how's doing with Cleveland this spring. He's appeared in 9 games. He's pitched 9 innings. He's given up 9 runs; all 9 of them were earned. That's an ERA of 9. I think we may miss his consistency more than we realize.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Hadn't thought to look up how's doing with Cleveland this spring. He's appeared in 9 games. He's pitched 9 innings. He's given up 9 runs; all 9 of them were earned. That's an ERA of 9. I think we may miss his consistency more than we realize.

He'd be great as the 9th man in the bullpen.

[bird]

 

Yes, but the "Plan" for Meyer had been set up before Antony took over, and presumably that had Ryan's imprimatur all over it.  (I wish Ryan would have just picked up the phone to the Cardinals for some consultation on the matter).

 

The Cards would have said, "Terry, do what you've always done, which is the same thing we've always done. Ask the people coaching the guy in AAA for their opinion and trust it."

 

The notion that Ryan is making promotion decisions about any player in a vacuum is close to farcical. Why do we keep ignoring the clearly expressed concerns they had about Meyer's health and readiness?

 

Did he have a combination of an injury, innings limits, and performance problems at the time, or did he not, yes or no? Why do we keep thinking we know everything that went into the decision? I sure wish we could let this one go once and for all. 

[h2oface]

Gotta hope for complete games this year. That is pretty scary, too. This pen worries me. If the pen is gonna fail, I hope they fail badly and quickly, so changes can be made sooner than later. I think Burdi is ready, too. And Reed is right behind him.

[Dr. Evil]

The Cards would have said, "Terry, do what you've always done, which is the same thing we've always done. Ask the people coaching the guy in AAA for their opinion and trust it."

 

The notion that Ryan is making promotion decisions about any player in a vacuum is close to farcical. Why do we keep ignoring the clearly expressed concerns they had about Meyer's health and readiness?

 

Did he have a combination of an injury, innings limits, and performance problems at the time, or did he not, yes or no? Why do we keep thinking we know everything that went into the decision? I sure wish we could let this one go once and for all.

 

I'm giving this post a like for the simple reason that the word "farcical" was used in a sentence. I don't know what it even means yet I feel impressed.

[jorgenswest]

1) Perkins, Fein, Graham, Boyer.

2) Tonkin gets first crack but Burdi and Reed are the two important ones.  Also, Meyer could be a bullpen guy first.

3) Interesting idea but it won't happen with the Twins.

If you search BR play index for all relief pitchers (no starts) and over 100 innings and sort by WAR, you will find Boyer at the bottom of that list with -1.8 WAR. This is not just active relievers. It is any reliever ever. No one has performed worse. We might wait a little while before writing him in next year's roster.

 

Fien was very good when he had a strike out rate of 30% and not very good when he was at 20%. The lower strikeout rate does not mix well with his extreme fly ball rate. It is often written that he wore down last year, but his strike out rate was down all year and written about before his collapse. He needs to be closer to the 30 than the 20 with his fly ball rate or he won't be on a roster in a year.

 

We might also wait a little while on Graham who couldn't get minor league hitters out last year.

 

Perkins is the only one that can reasonably be expected to be in a major league bullpen next year. Let's hope his arm troubles at the end of last year are behind him.

[jokin]

 

 

 

The notion that Ryan is making promotion decisions about any player in a vacuum is close to farcical. Why do we keep ignoring the clearly expressed concerns they had about Meyer's health and readiness?

 

 

 

The notion that Ryan has done successful due diligence on presenting and selling to the fans of Minnesota- over five seasons running and counting- an honest to goodness, top-to-bottom major league pitching staff, coupled with a solid evaluation and development plan to have the best prospects up to to the major league level at a rate commensurate within oh, say a light year of the league's best teams, is well past farcical.

 

Why do we keep ignoring the clearly expressed concerns of the former manager who actually wanted the best arms up to help him in some capacity, not the cast of cast offs and other minor league minions that were provided for him, and instead were fed a litany of excuses vaguely related to health and readiness?

[ashbury]

He'd be great as the 9th man in the bullpen.

Dammit, Brock, where's that Double-Like button?

[USAFChief]

He'd be great as the 9th man in the bullpen.

Be careful what you ask for.

[Squirrel]

I sure wish we could let this one go once and for all.

 

Me, too.

[h2oface]

 

Looking forward to learning more about this Brian Boyer chap.

 

_{^{/ didn't know you went in for April Fools jokes, Seth}}

....and Blaine Boyer, too!

[bird]

 

The notion that Ryan has done successful due diligence on presenting and selling to the fans of Minnesota- over five seasons running and counting- an honest to goodness, top-to-bottom major league pitching staff, coupled with a solid evaluation and development plan to have the best prospects up to to the major league level at a rate commensurate within oh, say a light year of the league's best teams, is well past farcical.

 

Why do we keep ignoring the clearly expressed concerns of the former manager who actually wanted the best arms up to help him in some capacity, not the cast of cast offs and other minor league minions that were provided for him, and instead were fed a litany of excuses vaguely related to health and readiness?

 

I'm sorry, I'm not looking for a squabble with you, jokin. But you wrote two paragraphs in response to my comments and didn't address any of it. You're an intelligent guy, and we get it that you have a wonderful command of the language. But is it really persuasive to throw out a few rather incendiary rhetorical statements while ignoring the comment to which you're responding?

 

You make some great points on here, and I for one look forward to and often respect your contributions to discussions on here, so all I respectfully ask of you is that when you reply to one of my comments, please address the topic in specific terms instead of generalizing in such a highly opinionated fashion. So let's try again.

 

The questions were these: 1. Weren't we all made aware of the fact that, during the period of time last year when we were all hoping to see Meyer, he was recovering from an injury, was close to his innings limit, and was struggling with his mechanics? 2. Does anyone believe that Ryan makes promotion decisions without consulting and relying on the opinions of the coaches and trainers in closest contact with the player?

 

Dear moderators: the Meyer thing is off-topic, but serves as a good example of how the GM might make a promotion decision. And we'll be seeing a few of them!!

[Platoon]

I agree with everything, but fear after Tonkin gets the first crack, the Twins will go through the litany of AAA 40-man roster suspects before Burdi and Reed get a shot. Without roster space clearing from this very cluttered roster, I have trepidations that Burdi and Reed won't even get a chance for a September debut/trout.  Gardy didn't have enough influence to get Meyer up last year, perhaps if Molitor and Allen double-team Ryan, they can wash the pitching prospect myopia out of his old scouting eyes.

. Which begs me to ask, just exactly how much influence does the manager get on the 25 man roster? I thought it was time for Gardy to change teams, but I am pretty sure that the last few years of this fiasco was not all his fault. I hope Molitor has enough influence to push for rapid replacements in the event they are needed.

[Platoon]

Hadn't thought to look up how's doing with Cleveland this spring. He's appeared in 9 games. He's pitched 9 innings. He's given up 9 runs; all 9 of them were earned. That's an ERA of 9. I think we may miss his consistency more than we realize.

I like ERA's in even numbers, decimal points frighten me. A thought just occurred to me! If you moved him from Cleveland to Toronto, would his ERA go up or down? I think in Toronto the stats are metric!

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

We might also wait a little while on Graham who couldn't get minor league hitters out last year.

I'll second this. I knew Graham was having a decent spring, but 12.2 IP, 6 BB, and 7 Ks (against what B-Ref says was an average of AAA competition) doesn't inspire much confidence.

 

For comparison, Ryan Pressly had similar rate stats (and was better at limiting hits/runs) in spring training 2013, and it turned into a decent season at the back of our bullpen, but I'm glad nobody penciled him into future season bullpen plans based on it.

 

Graham is almost certainly a back-end bullpen guy this year too, which complicates matters when folks try to minimize the significance of the Stauffer/Pelfrey/Boyer moves by claiming they are simply in the back end spot.  After this season, Graham is probably just as likely to become yet another AAA reliever who inexplicably stays on the 40-man roster for multiple seasons without passing (or barely receiving) an MLB audition.

 

(I say this as a full endorser of using the Rule 5 draft in this manner.  I just wish that maybe we'd see fit to use another bullpen spot or two in a similar fashion.)

[gunnarthor]

 

. Which begs me to ask, just exactly how much influence does the manager get on the 25 man roster? I thought it was time for Gardy to change teams, but I am pretty sure that the last few years of this fiasco was not all his fault. I hope Molitor has enough influence to push for rapid replacements in the event they are needed.

At the end of the day, the GM can overrule the manager.  Gardy and Ryan, at least on their first run, were pretty in sync on most matters.  I remember a Reusse article that Gardy and Smith didn't always see eye-to-eye on roster make up and Smith put certain players over his objections.  (Brenden Harris, IIRC, was one of the guys Smith wanted more playing time for).  

 

Obviously, you want a good relationship and my guess is that Ryan will try and make Molitor happy but would overrule him if he needs to. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I'll second this. I knew Graham was having a decent spring, but 12.2 IP, 6 BB, and 7 Ks (against what B-Ref says was an average of AAA competition) doesn't inspire much confidence.

Sorry for jinxing Graham yesterday. : (

 

At least since he only recorded one out, his BB/9 and K/9 rates didn't change much.