Article: Alex Meyer's Time Is Almost Here

[Otto von Ballpark]

One Tommy John surgery can screw that up. I still think using options smartly is smart. If he's up this year, they don't send him back down.

 

Agreed, don't use them unnecessarily, although I'm not sure if TJ surgery is any great culprit (actually getting injured in a particular year is likely to prevent you from being optioned that year).

 

Also, like I said, they could send him back down for up to 20 days and not use an option this year. Which means it would be easy to give him a MLB spot start (actually multiple ones) before a spot is permanently opened -- just send him back down just before his AAA start, then recall him just after a later AAA start to minimize the days he spends on "optional assignment".

[Marta Shearing]

When Meyer makes his first home start I might just have to go to my first game in two years.

[Oxtung]

Agreed, don't use them unnecessarily, although I'm not sure if TJ surgery is any great culprit (actually getting injured in a particular year is likely to prevent you from being optioned that year).

 

Also, like I said, they could send him back down for up to 20 days and not use an option this year. Which means it would be easy to give him a MLB spot start (actually multiple ones) before a spot is permanently opened -- just send him back down just before his AAA start, then recall him just after a later AAA start to minimize the days he spends on "optional assignment".

 

The problem isn't if they're hurt in the majors. It's if you send him down to AAA at some point, which if the Twins feel he isn't ready seems like a likely scenario, and he then gets hurt. Let's say he tears his knee up a la Mauer or Kubel. Well now he's used an option in 2014 and a second in 2015 while he's rehabbing and he now has 1 option year remaining and he's thrown all of what, 40 innings at the major league level?

[beyondclarity]

This has been a great read on the comments but one thing that rings true is simply "Does Minnesota really have 5 guys better?" The argument in my mind starts and ends right there. They cannot tell fans they're trying to win yet not have guys here who've clearly proven they're ready for their chance. I have not heard a single argument ever that validates May and Meyer both wasting their innings in a league that they're better than.

[Dantes929]

"And the arguments against the other starters was merely to discredit the alleged evidence used to justify those other starter promotions. The main point remains, those on the promote-Meyer side tend to agree that "what is best" for Meyer is pitching with the big league club, as he has nothing left to prove in the minors, and likely nothing more to gain"

 

Where Pino is concerned in my book there is nothing alleged about it. Your argument was that Pino was promoted on the basis of 60 innings. My response is that not only did Pino outperform Meyer to the tune of 1.5 runs in ERA in that time frame, he also threw 130 innings in 2013 with a better ERA at AAA and AA than Meyer did in 70 innings of AA. Nothing alleged about those stats. You can talk peripherals all you want but 1.5 runs per 9 better is what it is. By the way, I am on the promote Meyer side but there is less chasing in the big leagues so how can he not gain in the minors by working on his walk rate? I am on the promote Meyer side and I believe they will very soon. He is now at the point where is performance compared to the others dictates he should be.

[tobi0040]

"And the arguments against the other starters was merely to discredit the alleged evidence used to justify those other starter promotions. The main point remains, those on the promote-Meyer side tend to agree that "what is best" for Meyer is pitching with the big league club, as he has nothing left to prove in the minors, and likely nothing more to gain"

 

Where Pino is concerned in my book there is nothing alleged about it. Your argument was that Pino was promoted on the basis of 60 innings. My response is that not only did Pino outperform Meyer to the tune of 1.5 runs in ERA in that time frame, he also threw 130 innings in 2013 with a better ERA at AAA and AA than Meyer did in 70 innings of AA. Nothing alleged about those stats. You can talk peripherals all you want but 1.5 runs per 9 better is what it is. By the way, I am on the promote Meyer side but there is less chasing in the big leagues so how can he not gain in the minors by working on his walk rate? I am on the promote Meyer side and I believe they will very soon. He is now at the point where is performance compared to the others dictates he should be.

 

I show Pino's AAA ERA in 2013 at 3.26 and Meyers at AA at 3.21. Of course Meyers K numbers are way better. Big picture, Meyer's career ERA in the minors is 2.97 and Pino's is 3.77.

 

I suspect this promotion had more to do with Super 2 status (money), which Dave has pointed out and less about 50-60 IP of performance.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Agreed, don't use them unnecessarily, although I'm not sure if TJ surgery is any great culprit (actually getting injured in a particular year is likely to prevent you from being optioned that year).

 

Also, like I said, they could send him back down for up to 20 days and not use an option this year. Which means it would be easy to give him a MLB spot start (actually multiple ones) before a spot is permanently opened -- just send him back down just before his AAA start, then recall him just after a later AAA start to minimize the days he spends on "optional assignment".

 

 

I'm pretty sure that 20 days is only for a rehab assignment. If he goes down for anything other than injury, he's optioned.

[naobermiller]

This has been a great read on the comments but one thing that rings true is simply "Does Minnesota really have 5 guys better?" The argument in my mind starts and ends right there. They cannot tell fans they're trying to win yet not have guys here who've clearly proven they're ready for their chance. I have not heard a single argument ever that validates May and Meyer both wasting their innings in a league that they're better than.

 

When it comes to Alex Meyer, the Twins aren't, and shouldn't be, concerned about whether he's one of the best 5 options. He wasn't ready to come up until recently (and even this can be debated as to whether he's ready yet), and now that he is, the team is not competing. Part of "trying to win" means looking at the bigger picture, and Meyer is a significant piece of that picture and needs to be handled correctly, not just used as an attempt to sate the fan base in a losing season

[jokin]

When it comes to Alex Meyer, the Twins aren't, and shouldn't be, concerned about whether he's one of the best 5 options. He wasn't ready to come up until recently (and even this can be debated as to whether he's ready yet), and now that he is, the team is not competing. Part of "trying to win" means looking at the bigger picture, and Meyer is a significant piece of that picture and needs to be handled correctly, not just used as an attempt to sate the fan base in a losing season

 

If sating the fanbase would be the basis for his promotion, it would indeed, be foolish. But I don't think that is what anyone on TD has been advocating, quite the opposite, in fact, and is all about the first premise in your closing sentence: "looking at the bigger picture."

[tobi0040]

If sating the fanbase would be the basis for his promotion, it would indeed, be foolish. But I don't think that is what anyone on TD has been advocating, quite the opposite, in fact, and is all about the first premise in your closing premise: "looking at the bigger picture."

 

 

I agree. The primary case, in addition to that he is better than everyone else is that he needs to face MLB hitters to further his development. He has nothing left to prove against minor league hitters. In fact, his K rate and ERA this year are right about where his career minor league numbers are, i.e. he has not tailed off like most pitchers do.

 

We can get the adjustment period and nerves out of the way in meaningless games, versus next year when who knows....we may be .500 or better.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'm pretty sure that 20 days is only for a rehab assignment. If he goes down for anything other than injury, he's optioned.

 

True, he is optioned, but it doesn't necessarily count as an "option year" if the player spends less than 20 days on optional assignment during a given season. Some examples discussed here:

http://www.purplerow.com/2014/3/18/5520036/options-baseball-explanation-mlb

 

For example, Oswaldo Arcia will not burn an option this year since he was optioned on May 14 and recalled May 25 (just 11 days), assuming he's not sent down again.

 

20 days in the minors also seems to be the cutoff for not getting credit a full season's service time (see JJ Hardy optioned by Brewers for 20 days in August 2009, delaying his free agency by an extra year).

[Otto von Ballpark]

The problem isn't if they're hurt in the majors. It's if you send him down to AAA at some point, which if the Twins feel he isn't ready seems like a likely scenario, and he then gets hurt. Let's say he tears his knee up a la Mauer or Kubel. Well now he's used an option in 2014 and a second in 2015 while he's rehabbing and he now has 1 option year remaining and he's thrown all of what, 40 innings at the major league level?

 

True, but even in that case, he'll just have to stick in MLB at age 27 in 2017, which is not unreasonable at all.

 

Although I don't advocate burning his option year this year. Call him up now (or a month ago!) and either keep him up or keep his days on optional assignment in AAA under 20 the rest of the way. Shouldn't be hard now that we're only ~36 days from Sep. 1 roster expansion anyway. Then he won't have to "stick" in MLB until age 28 regardless of injury, which should be plenty of time!

[Shane Wahl]

I don't understand the fascination that so many people in Twins territory (fans and actual "our team" people employed by the Twins) have with pitchers who strike out a lot of guys also having higher walk rates, and with batters who smack bombs having higher strike out rates. It amazes me. Pitching: would you really rather have a lower K/lower BB pitcher than a higher K/higher BB pitcher given the fact that a walk is one base and a hit is 1-4 bases given up? Hitting: homers vs. strikeouts . . . a homer is one run minimum and a strikeout is one out. There are easy calculations to be made here.

 

The Morales for Pryor trade is an absurdity. I was hoping that Meyer would be brought up and called to the bullpen to get big league time while making his limited innings left count (in two ways). He could still get a couple of starts and then move to the bullpen as MR for right now.

[GCTF]

July 31st, as has been the plan for several months now.

Looks like someone needs a non-refundable boom daddy to the chin.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Just saw this on MLB Trade Rumors:

 

Top Prospect Promotions: Foltynewicz, Ranaudo

 

"At this point, even if both players stay on the MLB roster the rest of the way, they will of course not be able to accrue enough service time to set them up for eventual Super Two qualification."

 

The two pitchers called up were both top 100 prospects entering the season, although ranking notably below Meyer.  Both are basically the same age or younger than Meyer, and both have also had similar or worse BB/9 rates this season and throughout their careers (and of course much lower K/9 rates).  The younger one is also coming up for a bullpen role, initially.

 

The MLBTR notes on the two indicate "the big question is whether he can develop his secondary offerings" and "he still was work to do refining his change".  Apparently you are allowed to do that at the MLB level now?