Article: Twins Minor League Report (7/23): Shut out of Majors, Meyer Impresses

[Seth Stohs]

Is there a downside to Meyer spending the rest of the year in the Twins bullpen? I would like to see him as a starter, but I don't know how many more starts he could make and he has been on a pitch limit what seems like all season.

 

Chris Sale spent a year and a half in the White Sox bullpen before becoming a starter 2 years ago.

[Seth Stohs]

9-1 with a sub 2 ERA probably did involve some luck but still 9-1 with sub 2 ERA. Meyer with some dominating performances and great peripherals still had a run and a half higher ERA and a .500 record. Debatable means defendable. If Meyer had a 9-1 record with a 1.9 ERA we would not be having this discussion. Logan over Meyer is not as defendable.

 

Except the reason that it would be Darnell on Saturday would be because Gibson can't go again. If they could have planned for it, there's no doubt Meyer would have been the choice (and still could be, just not for Saturday).

 

Pino - He deserved the opportunity. May - would have been up if not hurt.

 

Meyer - has put together 4-5 straight pretty good starts... before that, for about 5-6 weeks, he wasn't pitching well. So, yeah, I think it's OK to let him perform for a handful of starts before calling him up...

 

Now he's done that... Now is the time. I suspect he'll make a start next week sometime.

[Seth Stohs]

I guess that depends on how much weight you put on ERA and W/L. Many feel that W/L are a worthless stat for pitchers. It really doesn't tell you much about their performance. ERA is better but it still doesn't tell the whole story when you're looking at small samples. The other issue is that Pino is not a prospect anymore. By the time players are 30 the book has pretty much been written. Guys don't really "break out" after 30, so why waste MLB innings on him when there are prospects that need those innings for development.

 

W/L is meaningless. ERA isn't perfect, but it's solid. I just think K/9 is what too many people look at. Sometimes things like Pitchability, savvy, control, etc are much more important.

 

As for Pino, he was pitching well. I HATE when people say "he's not a prospect so he shouldn't get a chance." I 100% disagree with that thought.

[Taildragger8791]

Chris Sale spent a year and a half in the White Sox bullpen before becoming a starter 2 years ago.

 

Wasn't that because they had concerns about Sale's durability as a starter due to his build and his funky delivery?

[Badsmerf]

 

As for Pino, he was pitching well. I HATE when people say "he's not a prospect so he shouldn't get a chance." I 100% disagree with that thought.

 

You're missing the point. I would be fine with him getting a chance if Meyer and or May weren't knocking on the door. You really think a month of AAA for guys that have been in the minors for years is going to matter that much? I don't. I wanted them promoted after Pelfrey went down.

 

The issue is that in order to compete in the near future the Twins need someone like Meyer or May to become a good MLB pitcher. Not a back end starter which I'm sure Pino would be capable of. There is an adjustment period for that. Every start in AAA makes that adjustment happen latter and latter.

 

You've already said in other threads that the age prospects make it to the MLB doesn't matter to you. The age thing isn't as important as wasting innings in AAA; which is what Gibson did in 2013, and both May and Meyer are doing now. I just don't get why someone like Arcia is given the opportunity to fail and learn while May, Gibson, Meyer are not.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Except the reason that it would be Darnell on Saturday would be because Gibson can't go again. If they could have planned for it, there's no doubt Meyer would have been the choice (and still could be, just not for Saturday).

 

Pino - He deserved the opportunity. May - would have been up if not hurt.

 

Meyer - has put together 4-5 straight pretty good starts... before that, for about 5-6 weeks, he wasn't pitching well. So, yeah, I think it's OK to let him perform for a handful of starts before calling him up...

 

Now he's done that... Now is the time. I suspect he'll make a start next week sometime.

 

You really have "no doubt" Meyer would have been the choice? The Twins have had a variety of starting rotation openings since the beginning of May and Meyer has yet to receive the call for any of them. I remember a month ago, when all sorts of posters claimed they had no doubt Pino was starting once before May got the permanent call; almost immediately, May was committed to AAA for another month by his Futures Game assignment.

 

I agree Pino deserved "an" opportunity; it's not at all clear he deserved "the" first permanent starting opportunity. What's so bad about letting Pino take Guerrier's spot, and May taking the rotation spot? There's basically nothing Pino can do this season that can give us confidence in a 30 year old rookie holding down a rotation spot next year -- very much the contrast of May or Meyer. What's the rush to give Pino the first permanent starting opportunity this year? Wouldn't we be better off seeing how May and Meyer adjust, so we know if we need to add starting pitching reinforcements in the offseason (or how much to add)?

[h2oface]

I like watching Pino throw those 86-87 MPH fastballs, myself. What's not to like?

[Dantes929]

Ok, I agree that WL record isn't terribly meaningful but it is not meaningless either. It means you held the other team on that day in those conditions to fewer runs than the other team's pitcher did. Its not terribly meaningful but he was 9-1!! Likewise ERA doesn't mean everything except his was 1.9!!! I agree with Seth. Meyer is obviously the better raw talent but then shouldn't all those strikeouts result in a better ERA than the 30 year old non prospect? If not, then he is not the obvious choice. Meyer was my choice for pitcher to click this year so I have been as anxious to see him as anyone but Pino was 9-1 with a 1.9 ERA. How can you give the Twins grief on one hand for the scholarship program and then criticize them for promoting a guy who has had that much success at that level? As far as May is concerned I don't think he was committed to anything by being named to that Futures game. I think he would have made his debut already if he had not gotten hurt.

[Dantes929]

I like watching Pino throw those 86-87 MPH fastballs, myself. What's not to like?

I don't think he has pitched all that bad but I don't think he has a permanent rotation spot either. If his ERA goes up over 5 in his next start and it is quite likely that he will be the guy replaced by Meyer or May.

[Mike Sixel]

I love how people say "there is no doubt May or Meyer would be up next" when they keep being passed by. I wonder how many months would have to go by before it was too long. ....

[Dr. Evil]

Nice report. Thank you

[tobi0040]

I love how people say "there is no doubt May or Meyer would be up next" when they keep being passed by. I wonder how many months would have to go by before it was too long. ....

 

I need to temper my expectations. The first one was that Pino's ERA was lower in 50 IP this year, ignoring the career numbers, who projects better, age, etc.

 

After Johnson and now maybe Darnell, who knows. We still have Gilmartin, we could say he has good control. And Mark Cheeseburger has racked up more participation ribbons over the years.

[Dantes929]

It was 60 innings at the time and while you think WL record is meaningless the meaning to me is that he had the consistency to get at least 5 innings (2 complete games) in his starts and his ERA tells me that all or nearly all his starts were quality starts ( by Bert's definition). You also seem to be hung up on that 60 innings pitched this year. Last year Pino's ERA in AAA and AA was better than Meyers ERA in AA. Difference was that Pino threw 130 innings and Meyer threw 70 innings. Basically over a year and a half Pino has outperformed Meyer. If Meyer's talent is so overwhelming then his ERA should not be a run higher than a guy you think is a washed up journeyman minor league pitcher. This isn't to say I want Pino over Meyer. I am just saying the promotion of Pino was earned and defendable.

[Major League Ready]

It was 60 innings at the time and while you think WL record is meaningless the meaning to me is that he had the consistency to get at least 5 innings (2 complete games) in his starts and his ERA tells me that all or nearly all his starts were quality starts ( by Bert's definition). You also seem to be hung up on that 60 innings pitched this year. Last year Pino's ERA in AAA and AA was better than Meyers ERA in AA. Difference was that Pino threw 130 innings and Meyer threw 70 innings. Basically over a year and a half Pino has outperformed Meyer. If Meyer's talent is so overwhelming then his ERA should not be a run higher than a guy you think is a washed up journeyman minor league pitcher. This isn't to say I want Pino over Meyer. I am just saying the promotion of Pino was earned and defendable.

 

This is a fair assessment IMO. Pino, Darnell, Johnson and May all had a better ERA until a couple weeks ago when Meyer's went down and Darnell's went up. The other starters all have a better ERA and Meyer is still 10th on the team in terms of ERA.

 

He is still the best prospect but this should very clearly tell us has not been ready to this point. He might be there now. We went through the same thing with Gibson. People wanted him up so the FO were all idiots because they could not see he was ready. Same thing here. Most people have not seen him pitch this year. We certainly are not there working with him. We know that he is working on some things but we definitely do not have a close-up perspective on his progress. Yet, in spite of the short starts, inconsistencies, and development of a change-up, some want to insist there is absolutely no reason he is not here. I am excited to see him too but the positions being taken here are a product of being a fan wanting to see some exciting new players.

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