Herrmann in: Tonkin out

[jokin]

How exactly is Vargas young (almost 24)?

 

Why is it a bad thing to call someone up for a week or two to sit on the bench? This isn't disrupting his development.

 

Right. There are bats dangerously regressing all over the place on the Twins roster- Hermann basically offers nothing to pick those failing hitters up.

 

What does it hurt to have a switch-hitting, free-swinging prospect get his feet wet with big league pitching for 5 games? The downside of the move is nearly negligible, whatever value he offers to team going forward is going to be at the plate- and either Vargas accelerates his inevitable move towards the big club with those Plate Appearances, or he chalks up some valuable experience to build upon for the future. Either case, as you said, he's soon 24, he's not some teenager wet behind the ears- stop babying the best prospects already.

[jokin]

The Vargas idea is creative and interesting. He appears poised to demonstrate that he's mastered AA. However, it has sounded in the past like his future position is DH. Going into a national league park, the team needs position flexibility more than it needs a pure pinch hitter. Herrmann provides the best position flexibility for this short-term need.

 

Vargas should be considered for promotion to AAA in the near future, because Rochester's first baseman, Brad Nelson, appears to be the weakest hitter in the Rochester line-up, with the exception of a recently-demoted glove specialist, and promotion would give Vargas the opportunity to show his stuff against higher-level pitching. If Vargas demonstrates the same mastery of AAA that he is showing in AA, a September call-up to TF would be more than reasonable.

 

As far as position flexibility goes, Hermann has shown that he's very shaky as an OF, and shown in the past that his catching abilities are suspect. What the Twins need against the NL teams for 5 games is good pinch hitters, first, positional flexibility, second. Hermann offers very little in either regard.

[jokin]

Ah relax everyone. Herrmann gets a gwrbi while up and it was worth it.

 

Yeah, and I heard a rumor that Hell was scheduled for a freeze-over atmospheric event scheduled for just before Memorial Day, not holding my breath on either happening.

[kab21]

The Vargas idea is creative and interesting. He appears poised to demonstrate that he's mastered AA. However, it has sounded in the past like his future position is DH. Going into a national league park, the team needs position flexibility more than it needs a pure pinch hitter. Herrmann provides the best position flexibility for this short-term need.

 

The Twins have Nunez and Santana (and one of kubel/Cola) on the bench giving them enough flexibility. What the Twins need is a pinch hitter since it's almost a guarantee that the pitcher will be PH for 1-2 times/game. I can almost guarantee that we will see Herrmann/Nunez getting some PH's during those 2 series.

[cmathewson]

As far as position flexibility goes, Hermann has shown that he's very shaky as an OF, and shown in the past that his catching abilities are suspect. What the Twins need against the NL teams for 5 games is good pinch hitters, first, positional flexibility, second. Hermann offers very little in either regard.

 

Yeah. To me, flexibility implies being good at more than one position. Bartlett was flexible too, and he was an awful choice for the outfield.

[stringer bell]

I would have liked to see Vargas. I understand not promoting him and rewarding Herrmann for his fine run at Rochester. However, Herrmann is a suspect and it will be a surprise if he does anything good with the bat. Having Pinto pinch hit will probably happen now without any more grey hairs for the manager.

[Guest USAFChief]

Kind of like sitting Santana for multiple days on end, and playing him out of position when he does play?

I don't think calling up another youngster to sit on the bench is going to resolve that issue.

 

As for DL'ing someone to get Arcia up...you can't just make up injuries. And in any case, DL'ing a starter to call up a position player would work this week with two off days, but after that the Twins are scheduled 20 days in a row. So forget that plan.

 

Of the available options, Hermann is the only choice. I'm sure Willingham will be up soon as they're sure he's healthy.

[howeda7]

Tonkin vs Gurrier to big deal, but when are they going to call Arcia up? He would provide as much off the bench as a PHer as Arcia or Suzuki and will actually start now and then. At the least, I hope Arcia is up for Hermann as soon as the they leave SF.

[jokin]

 

1) I don't think calling up another youngster to sit on the bench is going to resolve that issue.

 

2) As for DL'ing someone to get Arcia up...you can't just make up injuries.

 

3) And in any case, DL'ing a starter to call up a position player would work this week with two off days, but after that the Twins are scheduled 20 days in a row. So forget that plan.

 

4) Of the available options, Hermann is the only choice. I'm sure Willingham will be up soon as they're sure he's healthy.

 

1) Santana sitting or playing unfamiliar positions are 2 really, really bad ideas. If he is going to be the future SS, it's clear based on his present state of readiness, he needs to play the position daily. Vargas is a future DH, conveniently, the Twins need a pinch hitter for this trip, he can PH for 5 days and benefit from the experience, Santana is in a polar opposite situation to Vargas.

 

2) Can't make injuries up? Tell that to Mike Pelfrey.

 

3) I'm not prepared to forget my plan, I've spent too much time thinking about it. 4 starters works perfectly for the road trip. Starting next week, and not until Thursday, May 29th, you then have many options at AAA to plug into that 5th starter spot. Pelfrey, Darnell, Johnson, May, Meyer, (even Correia would be able to come back on May 30).

 

4) Hermann is a bad, bad option, not the "only choice". If it's just 2 days in San Diego, I guess it makes the best sense of a bad option/choice, but I would prefer that Willingham come back absolutely at 100%- if that means a week from Monday back in Minnesota, then I would prefer to give Vargas the full 5 days.

[diehardtwinsfan]

A cup of coffee for Vargas wouldn't have been a bad idea. He could function as a pinch hitter and be an upgrade over Herrmann, but in the end, I'm not sure this is really going to have much of an impact either way.

 

I suspect Colabello is going to get optioned on Saturday for Arcia or sooner for Willingham, and Herrmann will get returned to the minors as soon as the other is ready.

[cmathewson]

A cup of coffee for Vargas wouldn't have been a bad idea. He could function as a pinch hitter and be an upgrade over Herrmann, but in the end, I'm not sure this is really going to have much of an impact either way.

 

I suspect Colabello is going to get optioned on Saturday for Arcia or sooner for Willingham, and Herrmann will get returned to the minors as soon as the other is ready.

 

I'm not a fan of calling guys up from AA for short-term bench assignments. If he's ready to skip a level, he's good enough to start at the DH position. I don't think that's the case. With Willingham and Arcia a week away, it makes sense to use Hermann as filler. He'll be a Red Wing again before the month is out.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

The good news is that the Twins have reduced the pitching staff down to 12!

 

Arcia will probably be taking Herrmann's place soon. Willingham will come back soon as well, and he'll take over for , uh, Colabello? And when Fuld returns, he'll be taking either Santana or Nuñez's spot on the 25. Probably Santana.

 

As others mentioned, there was really only one move available to add a position player since everyone else on the 40-Man is either a prospect (Vargas, Kepler, Polanco), rehabbing (Fuld/Hammer/Arcia), or Eric Fryer.

 

I suppose they could have called up Florimon again, but really, there was little choice in the matter. Herrmann or make no moves and just wait for one of Arcia/Hammer/Fuld to be ready.

[Beezer07]

Can we get some sort of TD "Aricia is eligible to come up" countdown clock?

[big dog]

As long as Hermann is a placeholder for Arcia, this is a no-brainer. If he hits like crazy (which probably wouldn't last, but why not ride it) either Sanata or Nunez could be sent down when Arcia's ready. Santana's played a lot better than I expected, but as many others have said he clearly needs more work, and more instruction.

[jokin]

I'm not a fan of calling guys up from AA for short-term bench assignments. If he's ready to skip a level, he's good enough to start at the DH position. I don't think that's the case. With Willingham and Arcia a week away, it makes sense to use Hermann as filler. He'll be a Red Wing again before the month is out.

 

For 2 games in San Diego, then yes, it makes sense, provided Hammer can join the team in San Francisco. But Hermann's value to the big club is less than filler, if not for Florimon, he was literally the worst hitter in all of baseball while he was up previously, and was pretty bad in the OF, as well. And finally, I don't want him called up because it invites Gardy to consider continuing the 3-catcher boondoggle roster should he keep the 12 pitcher alignment after next Sunday.

 

Vargas might fail spectacularly, but it does nothing to hurt his future development in only 5 games on the roster, and it gives the Twins a better chance to gain something from the PH role, certainly over the likes of Hermann.

[nicksaviking]

There weren't many options. The move is fine I guess but are we certain that Herrmann is a better pinch hitter than Tonkin?

[Blackjack]

There weren't many options. The move is fine I guess but are we certain that Herrmann is a better pinch hitter than Tonkin?

 

Good one!!! It made the time slogging thru this bitching about the 25th spot on the roster worth it!!!

[jokin]

Good one!!! It made the time slogging thru this bitching about the 25th spot on the roster worth it!!!

 

Yeah, because it hasn't already been proven over and over this season that the choice of who the 25th man is actually has consequences attached to it.

[tobi0040]

Phew, almost had a RP from the minors on the roster......but you can't be one of the oldest teams in the games by using your minors. Very important to have 35 year old RP on the roster.......

 

Gardy managing our roster and in game moves reminds me of when I tried teaching my five year old how to play monopoly. Of course things get more interesting in NL games, more ways for him to screw it up.

 

In 17 games in AAA, Arcia is hitting .316, 3 HR, .954 OPS. Sure glad we didn't invite him to join us.

[Beezer07]

Good one!!! It made the time slogging thru this bitching about the 25th spot on the roster worth it!!!

 

Just FYI, there wasn't a requirement that you read this thread.

[Beezer07]

Gardy managing our roster and in game moves reminds me of when I tried teaching my five year old how to play monopoly. Of course things get more interesting in NL games, more ways for him to screw it up.

 

In 17 games in AAA, Arcia is hitting .316, 3 HR, .954 OPS. Sure glad we didn't invite him to join us.

 

Isn't Arcia still not permitted to join the Twins yet?

[Beezer07]

Gardy managing our roster and in game moves reminds me of when I tried teaching my five year old how to play monopoly. Of course things get more interesting in NL games, more ways for him to screw it up.

 

In 17 games in AAA, Arcia is hitting .316, 3 HR, .954 OPS. Sure glad we didn't invite him to join us.

 

To answer my own question, Arcia is not eligible to come up to the Twins until 10 days after he was optioned. That should be this Saturday...so might want to ease up on the sarcastic blasting of roster decisions.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

yeah - earliest he can come back is 10 days after he came off the disabled list and was optioned to AAA.

[ashbury]

Can we get some sort of TD "Aricia is eligible to come up" countdown clock?

 

 

Stolen from snepp's Countdown to Opening Day.

[nicksaviking]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]7493[/ATTACH]

 

Stolen from snepp's Countdown to Opening Day.

 

I could barely look away from the Smalley bedroom eyes to read the number on his jersey.

 

I'm going to assume he thought he was getting his picture taken for Tiger Beat and not for a baseball card, though I don't know that that sultary stare was appropriate for either audience.

[Otto von Ballpark]

To answer my own question, Arcia is not eligible to come up to the Twins until 10 days after he was optioned. That should be this Saturday...so might want to ease up on the sarcastic blasting of roster decisions.

 

To be fair, that 10 day rule is only an issue now because the Twins decided to option Arcia a few days ago, with full knowledge of our upcoming schedule. (Actually, we could have activated and optioned Arcia four days earlier, keeping him in AAA but making him eligible to return tomorrow.)

 

In some ways, shouldn't we be less likely to need a 3rd string catcher in an NL park? One of Suzuki and Pinto will be on the bench for at least the first 5-6 innings of every game, probably longer if the game isn't real close. If we really want to keep them on the field after pinch hitting, putting them into LF or RF probably wouldn't be the worst corner OF defense move we make this season (or even this week).

[Beezer07]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]7493[/ATTACH]

 

Stolen from snepp's Countdown to Opening Day.

 

This'll do just fine, thanks!

[Blackjack]

Just FYI, there wasn't a requirement that you read this thread.

 

It almost gets humorous after awhile, all the angst. I guess I'll trust the people that have been in the business for 25+ years. They want to win too. Herrmann went down, played hard, did well, it’s a good example for other players that get sent down. Plus in the past the Twins have been guilty of bringing players off the DL without enough games in the minors to be ready and they go 1 for 20 when they get back. Better to have Arcia prove he’s healthy AND prove he has his swing back. An extra week or three of rehab/pounding the ball in Rochester may actually help him.

[drivlikejehu]

Hermann doesn't belong anywhere near an MLB roster. But I don't mind if Arcia is down there for a short period to make sure he is 100%.

[cmathewson]

To be fair, that 10 day rule is only an issue now because the Twins decided to option Arcia a few days ago, with full knowledge of our upcoming schedule. (Actually, we could have activated and optioned Arcia four days earlier, keeping him in AAA but making him eligible to return tomorrow.)

 

In some ways, shouldn't we be less likely to need a 3rd string catcher in an NL park? One of Suzuki and Pinto will be on the bench for at least the first 5-6 innings of every game, probably longer if the game isn't real close. If we really want to keep them on the field after pinch hitting, putting them into LF or RF probably wouldn't be the worst corner OF defense move we make this season (or even this week).

 

I agree with this. The logical thing to do was to activate him and option him earlier, if you knew you needed to option him, but you would need his bat in NL parks. They just blew that decision.

 

It reminds me of the Bartlett retirement. We had to DFA Mastro while we waited for the Bartlett retirement papers to be processed. Of course, they could have submitted them as soon as Bartlett announced his retirement. But they gave him a chance to sleep on it and waited two extra days to file the papers. Once they knew they needed a spot for Fuld, they could have DFAd Bartlett prior to retirement rather than risking losing the only center field depth they had above A ball. These basic mistakes never happened until Antony took over.