Article: What To Do With Chris Parmelee?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

How many homers could Bautistasie hit at Target Field?

 

Could he break Maris's single-season record?

That would require Twins pitching to him, not on the same team

[ashbury]

could he break Ned Williamson's single-season record?

 

ftfy

[Boom Boom]

ftfy

 

Laudanum abuse was rampant among baseball players in 1884. Maybe with an asterisk.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Poor number in 600 some plate appearance scattered over 3 years is not proof. Countless valuable players have had poor numbers at the start of their careers.

 

Talented coaches and staff who watch Parmelee every day should be able to make that assessment outside of the data. Their assessment spoke in the spring when he was designated and echoed by the lack of claim.

 

Yet there are still many players who have been waived and gone on to have valuable careers.

 

The Twins called him up and they need to give him a long stay in a regular role. That role could be a platoon role. It would eventually be at the expense of at bats for Kubel.

 

I would guess that the number of valuable players who started their career with ~600 PA of poor numbers through age 25, or the number of valuable players who were waived at age 26, is not as great as you suggest. Particularly 1B/corner OF types and especially not given the breakdown of Parm's MLB production to date (90 great PA's in a September call-up, followed by 550 PAs of 84 OPS+ mediocrity at ages 24-25). Any valuable players with that background would sort of be the exceptions that prove the rule.

 

That said, I am still all for giving Parm another chance this season, especially with our other corner OF/DH options scuffling.

[Lonestar]

Parmelee made his debut at 23.194 years (that's 194 days). So far in his career he has put up a .246/.322/.395/.717 line in 620 plate appearance.

 

Kubel made his debut at 23.314 years and in his first 603 plate appearance put up a .253/.305/.406/.711 line (not counting HBP's).

 

Kubel had 42 BB and 107 K

Parmelee had 58 BB and 146 K.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Parmelee made his debut at 23.194 years (that's 194 days). So far in his career he has put up a .246/.322/.395/.717 line in 620 plate appearance.

 

Kubel made his debut at 23.314 years and in his first 603 plate appearance put up a .253/.305/.406/.711 line (not counting HBP's).

 

Kubel had 42 BB and 107 K

Parmelee had 58 BB and 146 K.

 

I think you counted years wrong and shortchanged Kubel by a year. Kubel was 22 when debuted, a full year-plus younger than Parmelee at the time of his debut. Kubel was also ranked #17 on Baseball America's top 100 prospect list the following winter. (Parm hasn't ranked on that list since hitting #94 when he was in rookie ball)

 

Kubel also suffered a catastrophic knee injury shortly after that debut, which completely erased his age 23 season and rendered his age-24 season largely rehab (just 72 OPS+). The next year, his season OPS was about 93 at the time your sample ends, and he went on a tear the following two months to bring it up to 110 (his current career mark too). Parm has been a pretty consistent 84 OPS+ since his September debut, with no major injuries to report.

 

I guess Parm didn't stay in MLB last July to have a similar opportunity to go on a tear, although he was striking out more than Kubel through July 2007, and had a lower ISO to boot.

[Reider]

Parmelee is definitely better defensively than Colabuckner. Parmelee is slow in the outfield, but he can track a ball and has a strong accurate arm. As for hitting, Parmelee rakes in AAA, but can't seem to do so with the Twins. I hope he gets it together this time around.

[cmathewson]

All I know is Parmelee is a huge upgrade over Hermann. He's about as good as Kubel at this stage. That's not a bad thing on this team at this stage.

[Reider]

I didn't mean to imply that he's terrible at the positions he plays, I actually agree that he's a little underrated, but at the end of the day he's a slow-footed corner OF and first baseman. That's pretty much all the way at the left end of the defensive spectrum.

He's slow footed, but he reads the ball good and has a strong accurate arm. He's a lot better defensively than some of the duds Gardy has been trotting out there this year.

[Lonestar]

I think you counted years wrong and shortchanged Kubel by a year. Kubel was 22 when debuted, a full year-plus younger than Parmelee at the time of his debut. Kubel was also ranked #17 on Baseball America's top 100 prospect list the following winter. (Parm hasn't ranked on that list since hitting #94 when he was in rookie ball)

 

Kubel also suffered a catastrophic knee injury shortly after that debut, which completely erased his age 23 season and rendered his age-24 season largely rehab (just 72 OPS+). The next year, his season OPS was about 93 at the time your sample ends, and he went on a tear the following two months to bring it up to 110 (his current career mark too). Parm has been a pretty consistent 84 OPS+ since his September debut, with no major injuries to report.

 

I guess Parm didn't stay in MLB last July to have a similar opportunity to go on a tear, although he was striking out more than Kubel through July 2007, and had a lower ISO to boot.

You are missing the point. They debuted at essentially the same age -- my math error change is from 120 days younger to 245 days older. They both sucked for the first 600 plate appearances. One clicked at the end. One hasn't been given a chance. Given the alternatives, don't you think he should be given a chance now.

 

What Kubel could have been before the injury is irrelevant. Parmelee likely won't be as good as Kubel was in his prime but there is a chance that he could. He definitely could be better than Kubel now. And next year. Etc.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Interestingly enough, both got the Gardy treatment as rookies as well.

[Otto von Ballpark]

You are missing the point. They debuted at essentially the same age -- my math error change is from 120 days younger to 245 days older. They both sucked for the first 600 plate appearances. One clicked at the end. One hasn't been given a chance. Given the alternatives, don't you think he should be given a chance now.

 

What Kubel could have been before the injury is irrelevant. Parmelee likely won't be as good as Kubel was in his prime but there is a chance that he could. He definitely could be better than Kubel now. And next year. Etc.

 

Not that it's a huge deal, but your math is still wrong. According to B-Ref, Kubel was 22.098 at his debut, Parmelee 23.194. That's one year plus 96 days, or ~460 days. Kubel ascended through the minors much more quickly and thoroughly. (Heck, as good as Parm's debut was, it happened about a year earlier than it would have if the Twins season hadn't been lost in 2011.)

 

And I bring up the injury precisely because it explains WHY Kubel sucked for most of his first 600 PA. He completely wrecked his knee, missing a full season and being limited in the next, and having to become a very different, power-centric player in the process. Parmelee doesn't really have such an excuse ("only playing 5 days a week instead of 6" is fairly weak by comparison).

 

I still agree with your ultimate points, though -- I want to see Parmelee get another chance while we still can, and if Kubel is scuffling, it may as well come at his expense.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Parmellee is up. I am very happy about this, as I think he has earned it. I hope he earns a permanent roster spot barring injury.

 

What do you do when health comes back to Fuld, Arcia and Willingham?

What do you think the Twins do?

 

I like the Parmellee/Kubel Hicks Arcia outfield with Fuld as the 4th and Kubel/Pinto DH the best of the options currently available. This would mean finding a trade partner, or 60 day DL/Release of Willingham and reducing a pitcher (preferably release Guerrier, I don't care how well he pitches) and sending Santana back to AAA.

 

I think Rob Antony with DFA Parms when push comes to shove. I don't think the Twins value Parmellee as much as I do.

[stringer bell]

Parmellee is up. I am very happy about this, as I think he has earned it. I hope he earns a permanent roster spot barring injury.

 

What do you do when health comes back to Fuld, Arcia and Willingham?

What do you think the Twins do?

 

I like the Parmellee/Kubel Hicks Arcia outfield with Fuld as the 4th and Kubel/Pinto DH the best of the options currently available. This would mean finding a trade partner, or 60 day DL/Release of Willingham and reducing a pitcher (preferably release Guerrier, I don't care how well he pitches) and sending Santana back to AAA.

 

I think Rob Antony with DFA Parms when push comes to shove. I don't think the Twins value Parmellee as much as I do.

If you value him so much, could you spell his last name correctly? Sorry, couldn't resist. I wrote about this in the "Roster Sausage" thread. If everybody gets healthy, I think a pitcher (Guerrier?) and Nuñez get demoted, but if Santana shows he's not ready, then he is optioned back and Nuñez stays. Also, at least temporarily, Arcia can stay in Triple A. He missed a game earlier with "soreness" and he isn't tearing the cover off the ball. Today and for the next week, I'd rather have Parmelee on the roster than Oswaldo. Arcia is younger, has more power and upside than Parmelee and youth and potential should be served.

[jokin]

Why use quotation marks around soreness?

 

Because that's the term that was used for holding him out of the game.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Moderator note, let's pretend the last few posts didn't exist and return this thread back on track. I see absolutely no value in implying that injuries are being faked, since those making those implications have no real evidence to prove it.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

If you value him so much, could you spell his last name correctly? Sorry, couldn't resist. I wrote about this in the "Roster Sausage" thread. If everybody gets healthy, I think a pitcher (Guerrier?) and Nuñez get demoted, but if Santana shows he's not ready, then he is optioned back and Nuñez stays. Also, at least temporarily, Arcia can stay in Triple A. He missed a game earlier with "soreness" and he isn't tearing the cover off the ball. Today and for the next week, I'd rather have Parmelee on the roster than Oswaldo. Arcia is younger, has more power and upside than Parmelee and youth and potential should be served.

Oops, one L, at least I didn't get the extra A in there.