Chris Herrmann Promoted

[Mike Sixel]

so, bascially, the message is that they are not that good a team.....no real surprise there. Lots of bad players, playing at a level or position they should not be. I'm not sure how three years in, they can't even find guys to field a position, let alone hit at a AAA level.....

[LaBombo]

so, basically, the message is that they are not that good a team.....no real surprise there. Lots of bad players, playing at a level or position they should not be. I'm not sure how three years in, they can't even find guys to field a position, let alone hit at a AAA level.....

 

Yup. The fact that a catcher's outfield defense is drawing raves ("terrific"!) and is deemed worthy of center speaks volumes about the lowering of the bar for what is surely one of the worst defensive outfields in baseball.

 

And it's interesting that there's already been an almost angry defense of the Herrmann promotion even though nobody was particularly down on it.

[tobi0040]

Herrmann's career AAA line: .227/.297/.312

 

Herrmann's career MLB line: .189/.268/.297

 

And he was only moderately above average in AA, and if you consider his age it really wasn't noteworthy at all. The guy can't hit... he will continue to prove this over and over as called upon.

 

You are missing the point. It is a rational fear to lose the DH spot. Could you imagine if your catcher gets hurt, then your backup catcher gets hurt, and Mauer comes in and he gets hurt? If anything we should call up Eric Fryer, just to be safe.

[TheLeviathan]

BBRef says Herrmann played 21 games right, three in left. No games in center field.

 

We're also talking about a team that is throwing a mid-30s career shortstop into the outfield for the first time. I think we can throw career positional starts out the window at this point.

[cmathewson]

so, bascially, the message is that they are not that good a team.....no real surprise there. Lots of bad players, playing at a level or position they should not be. I'm not sure how three years in, they can't even find guys to field a position, let alone hit at a AAA level.....

 

How does one temporary injury-related promotion prove that the whole team sucks? Talk about jumping to conclusions. Sheesh!

[Mike Sixel]

Bartlett, Floriman, Willingham help prove that......it isn't one move, it is three years of odd moves, imo.

[cmathewson]

Bartlett, Floriman, Willingham help prove that......it isn't one move, it is three years of odd moves, imo.

 

So one temporary injury-related move is part of a larger system of odd moves? I think you need to read your signature line and take a deep breath.

[Mike Sixel]

I'm not mad about it......I'm just continuing to believe they aren't good. You don't think all these moves are related? I do. Every move is related to the other options available. They decided not to have any reserve OF on the roster, and not much in AAA either. So, yes, this is about the decisions they made, not just about this decision. YMMV. And, no, I'm not mad at all. It's just sports, no actual impact on my life at all.

[Otto von Ballpark]

How does one temporary injury-related promotion prove that the whole team sucks? Talk about jumping to conclusions. Sheesh!

 

I guess I won't go as far as mike, but it is a strange situation. Relative to other spots on the roster, backup corner OF might be the absolute easiest spot to fill with a player who possesses both acceptable hitting and defense (if not average to above average skill at one or the other).

 

All the Twins currently have available to them (on the 40-man) aside from their platoon (perhaps primary?) DH is a 34 year old SS who's been out of baseball for 1.5 years, and a poor hitting AAA catcher who's had spot starts in the corner OF.

 

This is rendered all the more bizarre given their two STARTING corner OF (Willingham and Arcia) are already considered poor defenders, their lone CF on the 40-man is a young player who struggled mightily last season, and they have two wide open spots on the 40 man roster. Add to it their supposed organizational emphasis on defense, and their apparent construction of a flyball staff, and this is weird stuff.

[Ncgo4]

Boy oh boy, you people must be on downers. The Twins are leading the majors in scoring. Haven't you heard we've turned the corner in 2014?

[LaBombo]

So one temporary injury-related move is part of a larger system of odd moves?.

'Odd' is the most charitable of the range of applicable words, but yes.

 

And it's an assessment pretty strongly corroborated by the nearly 300 losses in three seasons...

[oldguy10]

I heartily disagree that one week's play constitutes "turning the corner", let's wait a bit before we rush to judgment, please.

[Shane Wahl]

Boy oh boy, you people must be on downers. The Twins are leading the majors in scoring. Haven't you heard we've turned the corner in 2014?

 

I agree with you. It's weird. The vilified offense (irrationally vilified) has produced like crazy and the complaining can't end.

 

Anyway, one would think that those who dislike Florimon so much for his bat would like Herrmann being on the roster (and ultimately instead of Bartlett) because it can free up Pinto to pinch hit.

[TKGuy]

I understand people are frustrated by the last three years, but I continue to believe that this team is better and will win about 75 games this year. The only move I still don't get is having Bartlett on the roster. All the bitching about Kubel being there also has been silenced for the moment. The two people who really earned a spot in ST, Colabello and Gibson are off to decent starts. Florimon cannot hit, I agree, but he can field and is not as much of a liability as when the team is not hitting. Have you seen the error numbers of our SS at the minor league levels, atrocious.

 

Having fun so far this season, exciting Twins games (not very well played, but exciting) and following all of the supposed stud pitchers on the farm.

[cmathewson]

I guess I won't go as far as mike, but it is a strange situation. Relative to other spots on the roster, backup corner OF might be the absolute easiest spot to fill with a player who possesses both acceptable hitting and defense (if not average to above average skill at one or the other).

 

All the Twins currently have available to them (on the 40-man) aside from their platoon (perhaps primary?) DH is a 34 year old SS who's been out of baseball for 1.5 years, and a poor hitting AAA catcher who's had spot starts in the corner OF.

 

This is rendered all the more bizarre given their two STARTING corner OF (Willingham and Arcia) are already considered poor defenders, their lone CF on the 40-man is a young player who struggled mightily last season, and they have two wide open spots on the 40 man roster. Add to it their supposed organizational emphasis on defense, and their apparent construction of a flyball staff, and this is weird stuff.

 

I am on record as saying I thought the Presley move was a mistake, or an odd move, to use Mike's term. I would have preferred to tell Bartlett that he had to earn his way up than just give him a job out of spring training. If he walks, oh well. And I hope they end the experiment sooner rather than later, unless he improves miraculously.

 

I just want to avoid sweeping conclusions from injury replacements. Hermann wasn't part of some grand plan. He was just the best available guy for the bench at this time, all things considered. Yeah every move is related in some way to every other move. But many of them are not planned. You have likely outcomes and contingencies. The complexity of possibilities turns to chaos in a month or so, given all the options. This qualifies as a contingency. To make it seem like it's part of a three-year plan is giving it way too much credit.

 

And I don't think you are quite fair to Arcia by calling him a poor defender. Maybe he was last year, but it is a bit early in his career to stick that label on him. He was a 21-year-old rookie who had hardly any time adjusting to second decks prior to being thrown into the outfield in the majors. He has show noticeable improvement in just one offseason. I have every reason to believe he will be an above average defender in his career. He certainly has the tools to do it.

 

Willingham is a different story, but just one offseason ago everyone here was lauding that move as a "steal". When he hits, his defense is not nearly as important as it seemed last year, when he wasn't hitting. Which, by the way, was almost entirely related to an injury.

[TheDean]

Well, it's official. Everyone's favorite super utility veteran to the DL for Herrmann. Now we can pretend Bartlett wasn't here in the first place, and Pinto can PH/DH while Zukes continues with that red hot production. Nothing to see here.

[Mike Sixel]

Fair enough, CMAT, but if they don't have a grand plan, of which the first injury call up is a part, then they have an issue, imo. They should have a grand plan. It should take into account possible injuries. I'm not asking for a legit MLB to be in AAA, but how about one actual OFer?

 

And, yes, the Bartlett thing is maddening.

 

I remain hopeful that at some point, the minors will product players. The Rosario and Sano things were killers for any hope for this year, outside of Meyer, imo. And, while I don't get mad about the Twins, or depressed, or anything like that, I am dissapointed by many decisions this offseason, and I remain skeptical about their ability to fix things in any short timespan, or even at all, frankly.

 

How a team with this much money passed on Abreu, well, I remain baffled.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I just want to avoid sweeping conclusions from injury replacements. Hermann wasn't part of some grand plan. He was just the best available guy for the bench at this time, all things considered. Yeah every move is related in some way to every other move. But many of them are not planned. You have likely outcomes and contingencies. The complexity of possibilities turns to chaos in a month or so, given all the options. This qualifies as a contingency. To make it seem like it's part of a three-year plan is giving it way too much credit.

 

Hermann was the first guy called up after an injury to an outfielder. That's not exactly an odd "contingency" situation, it happens to virtually every team, probably multiple times per season.

 

The Twins OF depth chart is apparently something like this:

 

Hicks

Willingham

Arcia

Kubel

Bartlett

Colabello

Hermann

???

 

And that's the beginning of the season, with full health, after an offseason of planning, after every team has made their spring cuts and the Twins still have two open 40-man spots.

 

I get that Bartlett is the standout oddity here, but that's one strange "Plan A" OF depth chart all the way through.

[Otto von Ballpark]

And I don't think you are quite fair to Arcia by calling him a poor defender.

 

Not trying to pick on Arcia, but when he's the #2 defensive outfielder on your team, at this point of his career, that's a problem.

[cmathewson]

Well, it's official. Everyone's favorite super utility veteran to the DL for Herrmann. Now we can pretend Bartlett wasn't here in the first place, and Pinto can PH/DH while Zukes continues with that red hot production. Nothing to see here.

 

I was just going to post this. Bartlett got an "ankle sprain" just in time to bring Hermann in while giving the team a couple of more days for Hammer's and Arcia's injuries to provide more clarity. They have two spots open for additions if necessary. Mastro and Parmelee are tops on the list. But Ramirez is a possibility.

[cmathewson]

Fair enough, CMAT, but if they don't have a grand plan, of which the first injury call up is a part, then they have an issue, imo. They should have a grand plan. It should take into account possible injuries. I'm not asking for a legit MLB to be in AAA, but how about one actual OFer?

 

And, yes, the Bartlett thing is maddening.

 

I remain hopeful that at some point, the minors will product players. The Rosario and Sano things were killers for any hope for this year, outside of Meyer, imo. And, while I don't get mad about the Twins, or depressed, or anything like that, I am dissapointed by many decisions this offseason, and I remain skeptical about their ability to fix things in any short timespan, or even at all, frankly.

 

How a team with this much money passed on Abreu, well, I remain baffled.

 

I thought they were going to get one of these waiver-wire outfielders after they DFAd Presley. Still surprised they didn't. I don't think a Presley DFA was part of a grand plan. I think Antony let Gardy talk him into it because Presley had such a Gaud-awful spring (not that Bartlett didn't, but Gardy is all about favorites).

 

I'll say this. They miss Ryan. Ryan would never let Gardy talk him into thinning the outfield ranks for a guy on an improbable comeback. We wouldn't be having this discussion if Presley was still here. BTW, he homered yesterday for the Strohs.

[LaBombo]

I was just going to post this. Bartlett got an "ankle sprain" just in time to bring Hermann in.

Hoping that he will put a pebble in the correct shoe to remind himself to wince occasionally and limp properly according to whichever ankle they told him is sprained...

[Mike Sixel]

So Pressley has outhomered the entire Twins' OF? It was/is/remains a mind boggling decision. If Gardy really made it, well, um, ya.....

[Otto von Ballpark]

I thought they were going to get one of these waiver-wire outfielders after they DFAd Presley. Still surprised they didn't. I don't think a Presley DFA was part of a grand plan. I think Antony let Gardy talk him into it because Presley had such a Gaud-awful spring (not that Bartlett didn't, but Gardy is all about favorites).

 

I'll say this. They miss Ryan. Ryan would never let Gardy talk him into thinning the outfield ranks for a guy on an improbable comeback. We wouldn't be having this discussion if Presley was still here. BTW, he homered yesterday for the Strohs.

 

I get that TR is taking a break and Antony is the acting GM, but I can't imagine TR didn't have final say about a DFA move. It's not like there was any real urgency to it. Same with Parmelee and Diamond -- the whole front office must have known the plan with these guys for awhile (DFA and outright at the end of spring training unless something unexpected happens).

[Halsey Hall]

So Pressley has outhomered the entire Twins' OF? It was/is/remains a mind boggling decision. If Gardy really made it, well, um, ya.....

 

If needed, I'll take credit for the decision. I didn't like getting him last year and certainly didn't want him around this season. His spring made it a very easy decision. Mastro's better than he is.

 

With 2 spots empty on the roster I think they had something in mind but it just didn't get done. But the 2 spots remain, so it ain't ova til it's ova.

[Mike Sixel]

True, HH.....but it isn't like they have been quick to make changes. Who would they add now? They did trade for Pressley, right? They must have thought, less than a year ago, he had some value......so maybe they do make changes quickly, just changes that seem questionable. The problem isn't cutting Pressley, it is not having ANY options on the MLB or AAA roster for any issues with the OF.

[Linus]

I thought they were going to get one of these waiver-wire outfielders after they DFAd Presley. Still surprised they didn't. I don't think a Presley DFA was part of a grand plan. I think Antony let Gardy talk him into it because Presley had such a Gaud-awful spring (not that Bartlett didn't, but Gardy is all about favorites).

 

I'll say this. They miss Ryan. Ryan would never let Gardy talk him into thinning the outfield ranks for a guy on an improbable comeback. We wouldn't be having this discussion if Presley was still here. BTW, he homered yesterday for the Strohs.

 

I was going to create a new thread on this as this very scenario crossed my mind. Reminds me of when Bill Smith was GM and it seemed that Gardy had the ability to influence personnel moves extensively. When the final roster spots were decided this year, it kind of seemed similar, like Gardy was heavily influencing the decisions. I say that because it doesn't seem like TRs style but I also find it hard to believe he was completely out of the loop.

Anyway, it would be an interesting discussion for another thread as it seems like a rebuilding team should not really be listening to the manager who wants to win now. Maybe if that team is on the verge of winning but not rebuilding.

[LaBombo]

True, HH.....but it isn't like they have been quick to make changes. Who would they add now? They did trade for Pressley, right? They must have thought, less than a year ago, he had some value......so maybe they do make changes quickly, just changes that seem questionable. The problem isn't cutting Pressley, it is not having ANY options on the MLB or AAA roster for any issues with the OF.

Should be interesting to how many more Bartlett booboos coincide with an outfielder injury and a Rochester recall of Herrmann/mastro/etc.

[cmathewson]

One thing I failed to mention: How many teams have in their master plans contingencies for both starting corner outfielders getting hurt at the same time? I don't know how likely or unlikely it is, but the way rosters are constructed, very few teams have the ability to absorb two such injuries simultaneously without losing considerable pop.

[cmathewson]

I get that TR is taking a break and Antony is the acting GM, but I can't imagine TR didn't have final say about a DFA move. It's not like there was any real urgency to it. Same with Parmelee and Diamond -- the whole front office must have known the plan with these guys for awhile (DFA and outright at the end of spring training unless something unexpected happens).

 

With Diamond and Parmelee, the writing was on the wall that they would clear. Presley got claimed by the very first team that could claim him. If they thought he would pass through, it was a grave miscalculation.