EGFTShaw

I like Ober, a lot. Like Ryan I feel there is more there. But I would trade him for Woodruff. Just like I like the Perry pick in the draft, but 100% in trading him for Gray. Proven quantity vs potential. I like our pitching options, Gray, Mahle, Maeda, Ryan, Ober at the moment. But you are always one odd injury to a pitcher away from disaster. AND most importantly, none of these have proven that they are the shutdown type of guy you want as your #1. The guy who can stop a losing streak. The guy you want out there in Game 1 of a playoff. Maeda showed some of this, but one shortened season is not proven. I think Ryan may get there as he has the right mentality. Needs a killer pitch like change-up like Johan. AND I really do not buy into this 5-6 inning/twice through order stuff for my Ace. He needs to be able to 7+ when he is rolling in the proper context of pitch counts.

Anything out of Frostbite Falls is a bonus. Hey Rocky, watch me pull an Ace out of my hat. Uh oh, time to get a new hat.

as a former member of your 'Hood, (EGF), I think some of the misconception around an Ace is permeated into this discussions. First pitching was not the only problem for the Twins Hitting took a nosedive after the break as well. I think people feel hitting will come around (overlook the Sano data point please), vs any of the pitchers stepping it up to be an Ace. Personally, I like most of our team and the construction. I agree with about 60-70% AGleeman's post about our needs. SS - even if we lose him, which the Odds and the Force may insure, I would like to see a highly competitive off to C4. After that I would like TT only because he is the coolest slider in baseball today. SP #1. I want someone who when he pitches can shut down the other team. I want them to go for someone here. Given what I seem to see in MLB you need depth which i feel the Twins have. But at the moment there is not one guy who you can call on to Stop the other team whether it is for 5 innings or 8 innings. I think Ryan has the mentality only time will tell. Very nervous about Rodon but I think we have the depth to deal with it assuming we don't hemorrhage injuries like we did last year. Someone mentioned a trade with the BrewCrew but I don't know enough about the guys mentioned. RHRP - we need some more depth. RHOF - it would be nice to mix a RH OF with the all the lefties. Catcher - dear god I wish Jeffers could hit. but yes, it was not only the pitching the sunk after the Break.

But we don't know what Rodon's price will be. The last years he has proved himself worthy of some dollars. But then again so did Strausburg in Wash. He had the incredible run in the post season that year. Since then, it's starting to look like he may be done. Which is very unfortunate for Wash and SS. I'd like to see the Twins do is go for it. Acknowledge the risk, we have depth, and go after a true #1 starter. You want someone that can shut the other team down on a given night vs a guy who can give you 5-7 innings while being average. I liked The Machine and would gladly have a pitcher like that on my team but not as my #1.

C: Ryan Jeffers ($0.70M) 1B: Luis Arraez ($4.50M) 2B: Jorge Polanco ($7.50M) 3B: Gio Urshela ($9.00M) SS: Carlos Correa ($40M) LF: Alex Kirilloff ($0.70M) CF: Byron Buxton ($15.00M) RF: Max Kepler ($8.50M) DH: Jose Miranda ($0.70M) 4th OF: Kyle Garlick ($0.70M) Utility: Nick Gordon ($0.70M) Utility: Gilberto Celestino ($0.70M) SP1: Sonny Gray ($12.00M) SP2: Tyler Mahle ($8.00M) SP3: Kenta Maeda ($9.00M) SP4: Joe Ryan ($0.70M) SP5: Bailey Ober ($0.70M) RP: Jhoan Duran ($0.70M) RP: Jorge Lopez ($3.00M) RP: Griffin Jax ($0.70M) RP: Jorge Alcala ($1.00M) RP: Caleb Thielbar ($2.00M) Payroll is 9.64% under budget

I like this. But I don't see years for the C4/Rodon contracts. Maeda could very well earn his way back into the starting rotation if he pitches like he did in the COVID shortened season. I like Max. I like Jeffers. I understand hitting is NOT easy, but to me this is like shooting in basketball. You will never be a Steph Curry/Ted Williams but you should be able to get to MLB average. I am a firm believer in bringing your prospects in when your options are veterans who are at or below average. I would like to see if Thor kicks i back up, (Verlander did), after this season. But I am tired of retreads that have a history of ceilings that are average. Draft position does not determine if they have a high ceiling after they have been around the block. One last thing. With the injuries, the nagging ones that never went away, it was time to restart the head trainer role.

Thanks, this is what I was trying to understand, if the 3rd BC sent him, why would it be Sano's fault???

And they aren't going to be stealing too many bases either...

>> It kinda feels like Cave sticking around in MLB camp is just some epic-level trolling of Twins fans Exactly...

OK...LOL...you're crazy... You are also Not Wrong...

I am not sure how much value I put in Baseball Trade Simulator from Baseball Trade Values but it works in their vacuum. I agree with you though, in that M&M for A&M isn't good enough in the A's mind. TS

I think next year is an unknown at this point. Unless something dramatic happens I think it is safe to assume that CC will opt out. But I wouldn't rule out the Twins keeping him. It really depends on a couple of things. 1) the chemistry between the Twins (players and FO) and CC 2) what the Twins are doing to put together a WS Winning team. 3) how CC and his family like the TC area. TS

This is not really a disagreement perse... Yesterday I went to Baseball Trade Values(https://www.baseballtradevalues.com) and sorted through a list of possible MLB pitchers the Twins could go after. I know we are hung up on the M&M boys from the As, but there are others. Just not a lot. Criteria: Value had to be above 20 (FM:39.6 and SM:14.1[yes this misses the 20 value but everyone talks about SM) Also had to be a listed as at least a Medium in the opportunity to acquire them. So beyond the M&M brothers. Framber Valdez(Astros) 83.3 Logan Webb(Giants) 71.5 Luis Castillo(Reds) 66.0 German Marquez(Rockies) 58.7 Tristan McKenzie(Guardians) 58.7 Pablo Lopez(Marlins) 57.1 Luis Garcia(Blue Jays) 54.8 Julio Urias(Dodgers) 48.2 Tyler Mahle(Reds) 44.4 John Means (Os) 41.8 I only used BTVs because it had a way to search and compare. The right thing to have done, (but an IT career and starting a film career leaves little time to play GM), would be to download the lists from BTV and then add additional sorting criteria AFV, availability, Trade Value. I have no idea on the true availability to the Twins, (e.g. Guardians trade in their division, Giants/Dodgers trading away anything, etc...) So there are options, but if we don't get any of these or the M&M Boys then lets go with our pitchers instead of adding additional retreads. Fingers Crossed the FO can pull a second miracle out of the hat that doesn't strip our farms system. BTW Fun Fact: Only one pitcher was listed with an availability of NONE. Garret Cole, NYY. Pax, y'all

Great article. New perspectives always enhance and expand our thinking.

It can't be $130M after signing CC. At this point if they need 2 quality pitchers. I am not really counting on much from Dylan. There is no sense in paying CC $35.1M just to squander the season away. I could see the payroll going to $150+ which is unheard of for the Twins but they will pack them in AND if they get the right pitchers make a good run. I like to offense and now the defense of this team. Not perfect but it is very well set. Plus you have some pieces to work with if you want to make moves. it is really hard to be patient now that we have been given a 5 Star entree LOL

Holy crap, we are dissecting grammar and idioms now... I agree with starting him in the bullpen if it can help the Twins. Johann did it, I think he turned out OK. Not sure if its Duran or someone else, but lets do what it takes to win and still build a strong foundation for winning. One way to entice Carlos to stay beyond one year is to show the commitment, in actions not words, to building a World Series Champion. I think the Twins have some excellent components in place.

Anyone who plays hard and won't back down is fine by me... Also JD always seems to have his teammates' backs. The front office gives us a BangBangBang weekend and then quiet for TWO days... Cruel... TS

Only with a multiyear offer and incentives...

I afraid of this happening too. First I like Big Mike, but he CANNOT be your move. I'd over pay for some guys on a 1 year prove it deal...I've heard, (and I think is is BS though), that Rodon(need to remember to drop the N) and Story could accept these. I honestly think it might be better trading if they miss on Rodon. Go after one or two of the pitchers in Oakland or Tampa. Sign Jansen as a reliever to pair with Tyler (righty/lefty) and let the kids play to see who is any good.

Bring out the Memes....LOL...

First LOVE C&H. Have the complete set. Two I would like to a new Story at shortstop, but I think he waits on CC to sign. Hence I voted for Rendon.

Could this bias comment be biased??? LOL

I agree. In fact you could trade one starting positional player for Manea. According to the Trade Simulator, you could swap Jeffers for Manea. But you would need a good sense if you could sign him.

I love the The Machined, durable, solid #2 stuck in a role of being a #1. If he definitely said he wanted to test FA then I would flip him as well. 7 years is a long time for an Arm. I tend to favor higher value shorter term contracts for established #1 pitchers. For the Twins to ever be viewed as a good destination then need to do what the Nats did with Jason Werth(sp?), pay extra either in years or in annual salary to bring a BIG, (not 2nd tier), FA to Target Field. Out of the guys out there, I would go after Mad Max, serious. 2 years $90M, this gives him possibly one more contract with some team if he stays healthy. 1 year isn't going to do it. I would like to see up to 3 of the young Twins pitchers this year in any combinations. Growing for the future while they are still affordable. Get some Frankie Viola years before they leave if possible, Learning from Mad Max. Part of my sales pitch would be to talk to Mad Max about who he thinks would be a good #2 and possibly #3 we could realistically get. Rodon if his medicals are good? Trade with Oakland? Trade with Tampa? Yes this would push our budget past the 10% increase, but it would sell tickets and then hire away the 2nd in command from the marketing teams at Barcelona, Man United, Bayern or Man City. The US pro teams, except the NBA, are behind the soccer world when it comes to marketing merchandise. Yeah I am dreaming... But we can't simply do what we have always done and expect different results. If not Mad Max, then a SS. But the SS will cost you more years and more money long term. Displaced Tom but lifelong Twins fan...(Killer, TonyO, Ceasar Tovar, Jim Kaat, Jim Perry, Rod Carew and the infamous Billy Martin...)

Good stuff. I am a BIG fan of promoting our talent to find out if they are going to succeed as well as a big fan of trading excess talent to bring back what we need. I've been playing around with TD Build Your Own and swung big, (but albeit not accurately from what I believe will be a true $$ perspective on 2 pitchers, low $3M on a catcher (but happy to go internal) and resigning Buxton. So 2 FA pitchers, Ober, Ryan and....well I went to the Twins minors again with Balazovic. But I'd be happy to adjust if we could swing a deal withe Marlins for Jeffers or Garver and get some more high potential pitching. Displace Northern MN Twins Fan residing where the best hitter in baseball is located. DC - I love watching Soto bat.