EGFTShaw

I am as Old School on the term Ace as you are on the Blue Light Special... Hello K-Mart Shoppers, over in the Sporting Goods department today, we have on sale for the next 60 minutes, a Blue Light Special on MLB FA Starting Pitchers, DeGrom, Verlander, Rodon and much much more. As always, we would like to thank you for shopping at K(ame)Apart and have a wonderful day. ACE to me is reserved for Johan type performance. Absolutely not required to win, but when you talk Ace, this is what it should mean. That one pitcher that on any given day will hit DDigits in Ks while no hitting the opponent while on the mound. I think No Hitters are going to be few and far between given the current MLB philosophy on pitchers going beyond inning number 6. PS - yes I am THAT old to know about Blue Light Specials...LOL/SIGH

Good info with pitchers, you just never know No one, and I mean No One, guessed that Verlander would win the Cy Young this year. people laughed at the Nats contract with Mad Max (what the hell were the Tigers smoking to have these two on staff. Again no one knew how good they would be), but that contract was worth every penny to the Nats. I’m nervous as hell about signing Rodon. He produced this year & is a lefty. I think we have the depth if quality starters (no shut down Ace) to handle blips by Rodon but to be honest I’d rather over pay for DeGrom or JV because the history is just a bit better. id rather spend $160M on DeGrom over less years with player option after 2 and mutual option after 3. Heck I’d bump that to $1M more AAV than Mad Max’s contract because Boras

I thought the same about his runner up for a God Glove. Over! Whats our vector Victor?

So we sort of upgraded by move Miranda off 1st Farmer is a good fielder according to metrics. I want him as the Super Ute not starting SS. I want C4 very badly. ?? Polanco honestly seems to cycle every other year. So look for an uptick this year. if we can’t get C4, then I think we look to the next best SS and if they are close lean to the better defender. when healthy, I think we have hitters and more in the pipeline. Arraez was good enough at first, again according to what I have heard. that leaves Catcher. I hope the coaches improve Jeffers defensive skills. 2nd catcher is a mystery. Murphy will cost too much I think. Toronto has 3 but at what cost?

I read the article and had 2 reactions. First - like most comments so far, he’s a starter until he proves otherwise second - unless you have your head buried in the sand so far it pops in Australia, of course you have contingency plans. NOTE: and yes sone pro sport executives/owners have viewed Australia often from the US. ? NOTE 2: most TJ recovering pitchers are adequate in post year one & back to normal post year two.

Only comment is your ETA dates...2021, 2022.. :)

@DocBauer you asked...I missed my deadline... LOL

Going Paul Bunyon Big (dreaming) bec I don't want to be a AAAA Team C4 8yrs $320M (front load if possible. I still like his odds of aging well when I look back at CPjr. WARs are almost identical; stats are very similar as is the body types.) Rodon 4yrs $120M or 5 yrs $125M (NOTE: The Athletic projects a 5yr, $160M contract) Trade Kepler and Urshela(Done). I'd look to Miami to trade Kepler. We are NOT getting Lopez for Kepler, but we might get one of their pitching prospects and they have done an excellent job identifying pitching talent. Jose "Read me my Rights" Miranda gets 3rd base. Matt "Up Against The" Wallner gets RF Backup C goes to Andrew Bechtold just because I am NOT sold on any options, I can see available, and he can play 3rd base. I don't want to trade for Murphy from Oak. Maybe one of the Cs from Toronto but I heard they are asking for a premium. Remember Farmer played exclusively Catcher for the LAD. Once E. Julien is ready, think about trading Polanco. (Polanco is bi-annual fantasy pick. Up one year, down the next...LOL) Maeda takes the SP and Ober drops to RP. Final 2 RP are Henrique and Winder. Caveats: 1) Does not take into account injuries, but assumes all players listed will be 100% healthy for Spring Training. This is a BIG Caveat and is why it is listed first. Especially when thinking of AK and KM 2) I completely understand the Twins, (and owners), have NEVER even contemplated this before. 3) I realize that the money spent on C4 and Rodon could easily be spread amongst loads of other average players, but I do NOT want and team full of average players. I want players who want to be called on when the team needs them. 4) Assume as well that, the contracts of C4 and Rodon could possibly be traded if things go south. If the Rangers could trade A-Rod (and his PEDs) then Twins can trade C4. Yes, it may mean paying a portion of the salary. WS Champs, '23 or Burst C: Ryan Jeffers ($0.70M) 1B: Luis Arraez ($4.50M) 2B: Jorge Polanco ($7.50M) 3B: Jose Miranda ($0.7M) SS: Carlos Correa ($40M) LF: Alex Kirilloff ($0.70M) CF: Byron Buxton ($15.00M) RF: Matt Wallner ($0.7M) DH: Jose Miranda ($0.70M) 4th OF: Kyle Garlick ($0.70M) Utility: Nick Gordon ($0.70M) Utility: Kyle Farmer ($5M) Backup C: Andrew Bechtold ($0.7M) SP1: Carlos Rodon ($30M) SP2: Sonny Gray ($12M) SP3: Tyler Mahle ($8M) SP4: Joe Ryan ($0.70M) SP5: Kenta Maeda ($9M) RP: Jhoan Duran ($0.70M) RP: Jorge Lopez ($3.00M) RP: Griffin Jax ($0.70M) RP: Jorge Alcala ($1.0M) RP: Caleb Thielbar ($2.00M) RP: Bailey Ober ($0.7M) RP: Josh Winder ($0.70M) RP: Ronnie Henriquez ($0.70M) Payroll is 4.63% over budget

Keith's reports are usually pretty good. Although I do remember him questioning the Jose Berrios drafting. But this was based on his size primarily. He developed very nicely even though he had a rough year with the Jays this past year.

It goes to show what your scouting and development teams can produce if you have good people.

This weekend ???

I am on record for saying C4 above all other FA SSs. I am also on record for saying TT after C4 if only for the chance to somehow market his slides. ? After that, I think I would like to look at the options Doc Gast came up via trades. I am not sure that XB or DS move the needle enough to warrant the deal.

There are very FEW true ACE pitchers in MLB. Long gone are Johan, Pedro, etc.. Rodon would be our "Ace" but he shows he can do this game after game, win a CY or two I am not sure. Right now, I would put Mad Max, Darth Verlander and a Healthy "Hans Gruber" DeGrom in that category. There are other very good pitchers who may obtain this designation, Otani, Brewer1&Brewer2, Cole. So, although I want this shutdown pitcher, I am not sure he is gettable. Initially I was cool to Rodon, but I have been warming up to him for 2 reasons. 1) He's a lefty #1 pitcher. (I differentiate between Ace and #1). 2) There is a dearth of options out there. I am not trading Brooks Lee to the Brew Crew or anyone else unless it gets me Otani. (In what universe would THAT happen) So, sign Carlos*2, trade Max (someone will fix his swing and get a big gain out of it), to get a RH OF. I am not opposed to bringing in Jansen and having Duron, Lopez and Jansen in my BP.

This fact, that we know what Correa brings to the team and what he is like as a teammate, put him far and away at the top of the SS FA list. I am not sure the other SS bring enough to warrant the deal, although somehow marketing TT's slide for extra revenue is an idea... ;)

I am not sure on the track record. We here about the bad contracts always and the REALLY great contracts. But the contracts that are mutually good fly under the radar as they aren't newsworthy. My instinct is that the mutual options are a relatively, (less than a decade) new thing. I only recall player or club options.

I am JUST TIRED of retreads and reclamation projects. I get the point that this has been the Twins MO for decades if not forever. Griffin would squeeze the players so much they bled before going to another team that at least appreciated them. Pohlads have been better, but marginally so until last year. I also know you need role players that can produce and everyone is not going to be an All Star. With such a clean slate right now, I want to see them go big, Paul Bunyon Big, or fuhgeddaboudit and go home. This King Kong Bundy experiments for either pitchers or positional players need to stop.

Meh... Although the price may be right, he seems to duplicate Garlick.

I think the intent here is, what can the Twins provide as value or incentive to lure Big Time FAs that may otherwise not want to come here. Opts Outs are one idea. Smart Agents will look at long term earnings potential vs security and try to maximize both. The downside is exactly that if you make the contract one-sided to the player. If the player gets hurt or declines rapidly or walks off the Flat Edge of the Earth (Hi Kyrie) the team is on the hook. But what if as the contract ages that it becomes a mutual options vs a player only option. So, unless both want to continue the contract ends with whatever agreement is place for said ending. I've been in favor of the Twins thinking outside of the box when it comes to signing FAs that Move the Playoff Needle in our favor. Not the bargains basement stuff. I would rather work with our young players than waste money on bargain basement FAs, (some exceptions of course), or reclamation projects. Although sometimes your farm system does not allow you to take this stance. Check the data, C4 is very similar to Cal Ripken, Jr when it comes to pre-age 28 WAR, body type, smarts and clubhouse impact. Check CRJr's WAR after year 28 to however long you want the contract to be. Then using what I hear is the industry standard of $8M/War and make a case for a good contract.

Well Damn… you have sort of stolen my thunder, but I’m going to ahead with my idea as it is more audacious than yours when we get down to the bottom line ?? ?? financial muscle will be flexed muhahahaha

Sooooo....... If every Twins fan pledged $10 to go to C4 which he and his wife could donate to their favorite charity, I think we may tempt him. Make it happen.

That "I Demand A Trade" BS in the NBA is crap. You signed the contract, suck it up buttercup. Unless there is some item in their CBA that the teams received as compensation for having to try and trade someone. Send him to the G-League.

Thinking outside the box as I have never been inside a box. LOL Could this contract work, not asking if the Twins or anyone would do it but continuing with the theme is this legal. C4: 8yrs/$265M with a $1M bonus for every WAR accumulate during the year. C4 is good for about 4-5 WAR per year. Average year his compensation would be $33.125M + $4-5M in bonuses. If he does a HUGE year, then more power to him as team and C4 benefit. I initially thought of it as 8yrs/$250M with bonuses. Regardless the concept is the same.

Thanks! NBA version I never understood, was the Nets allowing the Warriors to get value back for Durant. I mean the Warriors have been at the top of the heap. Great explanation tho.

I am of the opinion, even if it's Diaz, not going beyond 2 years with a RP when talking Big Bucks.

Maybe I am Old School, I am Old so... It should be a case-by-case plan, I can't help but feel you need 1 (minimum) and probably 2 pitchers who have quality starts of 6+ innings. We also need that one pitcher who can shut down the opposition and give the team a chance to get back on the winning streak. The last part of the season, it looked like Ryan did better when Rocco let him go more than 4.7 innings. Speaking of pitching coaches, how can a college team out bid a professional team for a pitching coach???