Nashvilletwin

Couldn’t agree more. It’s Rocco and his staff who bear the responsibility for turning highly ranked prospects (who have performed and developed through our own minor league system) into actual real major leaguers. You can add Wallner and Larnach to that list. At this point Rocco, et al are 0-7 in what arguably is their most important role.

Advice for this young man: be dedicated, listen closely and learn your craft through the Twins’ excellent minor league system. When you reach AA, have your agent start demanding a trade. Only reconsider if Falvey and Rocco are gone. This is your best chance to be a big time major leaguer.

Lots of great comments on the TD today about how the Twins refuse to develop their rising prospects. Instead, the focus is on creating defensively mediocre multi-positional platoon hitters. But let’s all be clear about one thing: this approach will never, ever change as long as Rocco is at the helm. Geez I hope he’s gone before Jenkins, ERod, and Keaschall appear. Time is running short……

The agents for every young prospect or current Twins position player should be begging the FO for a trade. The Twins model is practically always the same: get drafted, succeed through the system, get hyped in the press (including the TD), get called up, get stalled, get moved around the diamond and batting order, and enter platoon player purgatory. Rinse and repeat. If you want to be a full-time major leaguer - who learns to play one position at an exceptional level and to hit against both righties and lefties in high leverage situations with the chance for the big bucks contract - you’re better off trying your luck elsewhere. And, ironically, the Twins are better off moving you before your hype/promise turns into the stalled, platoon pigeon hole. Win - win.

Cue the thumbs downs and the derision, but each position player mentioned in this article - regardless of their pedigree, minor league success, or expectation - will not develop even close to their full potential as they attempt to transition into an everyday major leaguer as a Twin. It’s simply something this regime under Rocco and staff don’t do well (and it’s probably one of the most important priorities for smaller, mid - market teams). They might do other things pretty well (like developing talent through multiple minor league levels), but making top position player prospects into consistent, enduring above average major league starters is not one of them, even relative to overall league low success rates. There is a lot of talk on this site about trading prospects for proven talent. Sad to say, but moving position player prospects at or near their value apogees prior to their inevitable big league stagnation in the Twins organization is probably the best strategy until proven otherwise. The agents for these prospects should be working the front office to make that happen. If one of these players were my son, I’d welcome a trade with open arms as the history of success with the Twins just isn’t there.

2028? Why not September 2025? Or Opening Day 2026 at the latest?

Absolutely not true. I’ve written this several times on this site and will say it again: on a cash basis the Twins have been losing over tens of millions on an annual basis in the 2020s and could lose over $50MM this year. I have often written about the decisions the family needs to make every year to find the cash to keep supporting the business and the financial analysis required to warrant/justify that amount of funding. The Pohlads are not dumb. They are savvy investors and operators and have been successful across two generations with a third well on the way. Sure, they could sustain the losses while the equity values were climbing. But now, the certainty of those rising equity values - especially for small/mid market teams - is unclear. Said another way, the rate of return on the cash needed to annually fund the team has increased because the risk of the equity growth has risen. They have other better, more attractive investment opportunities. We all know the Pohlads have never been “vanity” owners. The decision to sell now should be a wake-up call to all of you; namely, the Twins as a business is not as attractive as you think. If it were - if the team were spewing out big cash flow every year - the Pohlads would be keeping it. But the franchise is not and that is why they are selling. For all of our sakes, I hope a “vanity” buyer does appear. But those are actually few and far between and especially for markets like the Twin Cities. Consequently, keep in mind, the new owners may likely be a consortium of investors and quite possibly with no ties to this community. Say what you want about the Pohlads, but they live, invest, create jobs, and support lots of charities in our state. We will be lucky to find those community ties in the new owners. In a state as provincial as Minnesota, those ties actually can be important. The Wilfs have done an excellent job developing those ties and are a great example of excellent leadership from an outside owner. Of course, the economics of the NFL are completely different than MLB (especially for a franchise like the Twins in a no salary cap league).

1. His record over the past several years is actually not that good and downright mediocre at best if one takes away the juiced ball season. 2. Rocco staying and firing a good part of his staff is embarrassing. Yeah, that’s right, blame this dumpster fire on someone else. The interns better watch out. 3. Among his many faults, is that Rocco is very poor at transitioning strong, promising minor league players into true blue major leaguers. There are a lot of reasons why this is the case. If the Pohlads’ business model is to compete as a small/mid market team, making the most out of your draft and minor league system is paramount. Rocco is simply a terrible fit for the business model. This is a huge Pohlad problem - not having the type of leader in place for the type of team you have. 4. We could’ve had Terry Francona? Seriously, he was back in play? 5. The “majority” of Twins fans want Rocco to stay? Really? I’d like to see the data on that one, especially among the high revenue super fan base. Maybe I missed the poll, but I’ll take the under on that claim.

Well, that’s bad news. The “resign” thing was tongue in cheek, btw; I know he’s not resigning.

I’m not sure what’s going to happen first: Rocco is fired or he preemptively resigns. Now he must really know how Buttermaker (Walter Matthau) was feeling before Amanda (Tatum O’Neal) showed up. Either way, he should be gone by Monday afternoon. Pathetic baseball. To be honest, I’m really amazed at just how badly this team has played since game 4 in Texas. I mean, they have been plain awful. Overall fun season. The team more or less kept us interested through 159 games (and I watched/mostly enjoyed 130+ of them). So the season ended five days early. That, in and of itself, is not a disaster. However, how poorly the team played at the end is truly disappointing. It would have been nice to see them play well when things really mattered. The off-season will have a sour taste until hope springs eternal again with the start of spring training…….

That was choice #3. Stay a fan and carp all you want. So carp away - it’s your right and I respect you for it. And, yes, Go Twins!

Love it. Great suggestions. Thank you. Btw, they seem to mostly revolve around managerial style….

Another blame it on the cheap Pohlads comment. Sheesh, it’s the oldest bellyache broken record in the book. First, there is no doubt that the EQUITY value of the Twins has grown exponentially since the team was purchased. You are 100% correct. However, given the current environment, it’s not clear that such growth will continue. There are risks to the former model of an ever rising tide raising all ships. Just because it happened in the past does not mean it will continue in perpetuity. Smart investors know that trees don’t grow to the sky and the Pohlads have been pretty shrewd investors over two generations now. Second, you will notice that I “suggested” that it may be “possible” that the Twins over the entire franchise might be losing tens of millions annually on a CASH basis. If so, how are those cash losses funded? Do they take from their auto or property businesses to put into the baseball business? What if the ROI for capital in the other businesses is higher? What if the other businesses actually don’t have the cash? Where does that cash come from and how much should be put in annually to fund baseball over the “possible” tens of millions they are already fronting the business? Maybe the decision is already to invest $___millions in annual losses to make $____ millions in future equity value. In other words, the Pohlads may actually already be employing the strategy you are implying, but just not to the extent you wish. Third, you need to get over it. The Pohlads are not going to become vanity spenders on baseball. They never will. So until they sell, which they seemingly have no intent on doing, please come up with constructive ideas as to how to build a consistent winner (which by the way, the Twins have pretty much done over the past half decade anyway) given the business model under which they operate. At the end of the day, you really have four choices: 1. Continue to harp about how cheap the Pohlads are (which is fine if that makes you happy); 2. Find another team where that isn’t an issue; 3. Stay a Twins fan and enjoy cheering for your favorite team while carping about things that could possibly be changed; or 4. Earn enough money to make the Pohlads an offer they can’t refuse and then you can spend all you want (with whatever results that may or may not bring). Personally, I’m choosing #3 and working on #4.

Best comment of the day - by far!

I 100% feel your disappointment. Sadly, I will watch the last few games right up until the end. Hope springs eternal as they say. Just out of curiosity, other than “spending more money” what would you like to be see done to improve the “business model and product” to reignite your enthusiasm for this organization?

For some, if not a vast majority, of us TDers, the answer always comes back to the penury and/or avarice of the Pohlad family (other posters can be pedantic as well, lol). Once again, no one on this site really has a clue as to how the finances of the Pohlad’s businesses operate. It has been suggested by some, myself included, that it is entirely possible that the Twins - across their entire franchise - lose tens of millions of dollars on a cash basis annually. If true, how those losses are financed (debt, support from other family businesses, selling assets, or just plain vanity personal contributions) is for the Pohlad family to decide. But given the business success of this family over two generations (which, it should be pointed out, is not easy), it should be assumed that the Pohlad’s apply some degree of financial discipline (i.e. ROI and comparisons to other investment opportunities) in how they commit capital. Disappointing as it is for many TDers, the Twins are not a vanity asset for the Pohlads. But the Pohlads are not blame free for the disappointments of this season. The buck should stop at the top and the Pohlads are not absolved from Harry Truman’s now age old adage. It’s very clear this team lacks confidence in themselves and in their leadership. Yes, the trade deadline, even though assets were expensive, was a missed opportunity. However, which young player on the Twins is not virtually a shell of himself at this point of the season vs. earlier? Wallner and, possibly, Larnach - and they comprise the entire list. Julian, Alcala, Duran, Lee, Lewis, Jeffers, Kiriloff, etc. They are mentally shot. It’s sad to watch. That is on Rocco and his staff. And Rocco still at the helm is 100% on the Pohlads. Put another way, if the Pohlads are interested in seeing a return on their assets, why have they allowed their most dear and important assets - their players - to remain underdeveloped? If they are going to insist on a lower spending model, then they sure as hell need to get a higher return on those less costly assets. That is the entire strategy on which the Twins model for success is based. Yes, we can all wish the Pohlads were free spenders. They have been willing to invest, but free spenders they will never be. No, the bigger issue with the Pohlads is that they dawdle in making personnel changes when the writing is on the wall. We’ve seen this for decades now. We will see how long, if at all, it takes to bring in new leadership on the field. So this season may end a week early. Sad, yes. But if that result clearly exposes the changes needed to move this franchise forward, then we as fans should be counting our blessings. But those changes won’t involve the Pohlads going on a spending spree or selling the Twins. Let’s hope instead that the changes start with better on field leadership and the family can make those calls.

Well, I guess the plan is to just keep doing the same things with the same people…..finish up the year and hope for the best. And then make all the right comments when we come up short. Or, alternatively, the Nephew could make a statement to try to instil some urgency and accountability into this franchise while there is still some time. Will he? Doubt it. But it’s not a silly idea. Besides, he probably will make the move early in the off-season anyway. This team has lost its confidence and it is not getting it back without some drastic action.

Seriously though, we really do not have the bullpen to compete.

Big changes on the way for next year - an epic collapse like this, regardless if they make the playoffs at this point, merits action. It has to happen and the Nephew will need to have the fortitude to see it done. Buckle you seatbelts. Btw, I was going to comment on the decision to let Santana bat in the 10th (0-4 at that point with RISPs and looking lost in each at bat), but it doesn’t really matter - the Guardians would have scored as many as the needed anyway.

Epic collapse. 100% correct.

Up to and including Alcala tonight, three of our previous six relief pitchers have walked the first batter they faced. Is there anything really more inexcusable and frustrating for a team than that from a relief corps?

In the instance to which I referred, Duran faced the bottom of the order in the eighth, leaving Jax to theoretically face the top of the order in the ninth. I was implying that this move by Rocco - putting Duran in ahead of Jax in a non save situation against a weaker lineup - suggested a little more confidence in Jax and a little less in Duran , at least on that particular day.

Agree and disagree. Jax is definitely one of the best relievers, but the number of times Duran has come in to pitch in front of Jax this season can certainly be counted on one hand I believe.

Fans aren’t the only ones in a “panic” over Duran. As we all remember, after Ober’s sterling seven inning, 83 pitch, one-hit outing last week, Rocco brought in Duran to pitch the eighth and face the 6-7-8 hitters, saving Jax theoretically to face the top of the order in the ninth. Seems Rocco is in a bit of a tizzy too over his star closer.

Martin scores………runs are important to this team.