Nashvilletwin

Rec this. But would insert “a new manager and” in front of “full healthy…”. We’ve won one game vs. the Dodgers, Astros, Yankees, and Guardians in the last 20 during a so-called pennant race. A single game (granted that’s one more than the playoff games we’ve won in about as many chances ….lol). Many of us TDers blame that on health. Not I. Nor should the Pohlads. Until we play better fundamental baseball than those teams, we will never be competitive - regardless of our health. And this team has never played consistent, solid fundamental baseball under Rocco whether in the field, at the plate, on the bases, or coaching from the bench. Not in a single facet. And there is no evidence to suggest that we will in the future. You want to get to the next level? Sure, better health is an important start. However, this team must perform better in all the little things that add up to multiple wins over a season and that only starts with new leadership in the dugout. I have confidence the Pohlads will see that.

Don’t get me wrong though. Max is a superior defender and one of my favourite Twins. He has value for sure. I’m just not sure at the price he fits our needs best. But, you are probably right - back next year.

Great question. Probably not much. Now cue the TDers who think Max will bounce back with the outlawed shift. Still, $9.5MM is a lot of capital to have available to fill holes. Sano, Kepler, Polanco. Three great signs at the time, but really only one looks like it might pan out over the full life of the deal, let alone on a follow-up deal. Sad.

Sorry to ask the tough, but legit, question: will we see Kepler in a Twins uniform again?

This. Sorry if the truth hurts.

Fundamentals - mistakes. Both by our players and manager. It’s our Achilles Heel. Has been, and always will be, under Rocco. And we will never win unless we are better at the fundamentals than the other teams. It’s not rocket science. Why can’t our ownership see that?

Fundamentals. Our Achilles Heel. All season long.

Great catch by Cave. Ok, let’s stay hot. It ‘ain’t over ‘til it’s over.

#1 Frustration: playing poor fundamental baseball virtually day-in and day-out, especially when we know that, with our roster and injuries, superior fundamentals - from both the players and coaching staff - is our best chance to truly contend. Sure, we’ve had more than our share of injuries. Get it. But there are no excuses for bad fundamental baseball. None. Zilch. Nada. If this team had been fundamentally sound, we’d be winning the division - injuries or not. That is what is so frustrating. Figure out how to solve that in 2023 and see where that gets us.

We are a mid market team. To compete with the larger market teams, we must do some things under the manager/coaching staff’s areas of responsibility extremely well and, hopefully, much better than others. Those include: 1. Playing/managing strong fundamental baseball day in and day out. 2. Have strong team chemistry - confidence and camaraderie. 3. Continue to develop young players once they make the big leagues. (A number 4. is health - keeping your players on the field. I’m not sure whose responsibility that is - coaching staff or FO. Either way, it’s been a disaster obviously). Objectively, how has the this staff under Rocco performed in these areas? 1. We have never played strong fundamental baseball under Rocco. Never. Also, no one would ever call Rocco a strong in-game manager. Sure, he’s had his moments, but overall, it’s not his forte. 2. No playoff victories. We just went 1-13 vs. the Dodgers, Astros, Yankees, and Guardians over the past month or so in the midst of a pennant race. Camaraderie? Perhaps. Confidence? None. Rocco has not been able to get his teams past the mental block of being able to compete with the better teams. 3. Which young Twins under Rocco have developed to their potential? Certainly the jury is still out on a couple, notably Miranda and Gordon (trend is positive). But how many more have stagnated or failed? If you want to consistently win, you must have your young talent continue to improve and get the most out of them - I’m not sure I see the track record of that under Rocco. Rocco has won more games than lost. No doubt, he has done a lot of good things. The question is: is he the guy to deliver a consistent contender for a Pennant? Unless he substantively improves in key areas managing/leading a well-positioned mid-market club, the answer is likely (and objectively) no.

Apologies upfront if this post may be TLDR for many. Nick, this a well written post that describes in great detail the enormous hurdles that injuries put in front of this team. Thank you. Your post raises two questions for me. The first, were these enormous hurdles in fact insurmountable? The second, what does this mean in terms of the future leadership of the team? There are many, and it appears you are in this camp, that would answer yes to the first. There are many other TDers, perhaps the minority, who are tremendously sympathetic with the argument, but cannot out of hand dismiss the managerial, player and front office blunders that certainly contributed to many victories being left on the table. But, IMHO, the question is moot from a “blame” standpoint; we are where we are and what matters is where we go from here. The Twins are a well-positioned mid market organization. We have excellent owners, facilities, farm system, and tradition. We have access to capital, albeit not unlimited, to acquire the occasional high priced FA player. We have a tremendous roster of young, up-and-coming players. So, specifically, what does it take for a mid market organization such as ours to consistently and realistically compete with the big market teams and the smart/shrewd/well-run small-mid market teams for the Pennant. Here are a few thoughts re the criteria: 1. Consistent development of big leaguers through the system. 2. FO excellence in trades, FA acquisitions, and player retention. 3, Strong fundamental baseball from players and coaches in all aspects of the game. 4. Maximizing the potential of the players who make it to the Show. 5. Health - keeping the players on the field (and it’s all not just luck). 6. Team culture of confidence, camaraderie, accountability and commitment. The small-mid market teams that do these things well will be the ones competing for championships against the larger market clubs. If you don’t do these things well, teams like the Twins will be destined for mediocrity. So to address the second question, perhaps it makes sense to open-mindedly evaluate how our FO and coaching staff have performed, and realistically could be expected to perform, in these areas. Perhaps other than the first, one could argue that the Twins owners should seek substantive improvement from existing or new leadership if these are truly criteria for success.

You nailed it. It’s one thing to have the players, it’s another to get them to maximise their potential. Hopefully, we find the right leadership and system to make that a reality.

Looking ahead to ‘24, could our core starting four infielders be Miranda, Lewis, Lee and Arraez? If so, who plays what position? Let’s assume Lewis is at SS. Could Lee play 2B with Miranda at 3B and Arraez at 1B? Or is Lee at 3B, Arraez at 2B, and Miranda at 1B. Regardless, that’s a strong (and pretty cheap) starting core infield. (Just for kicks, Larnach, Buxton and Kiriloff in the outfield. Jeffers at C. Gordon, Wallner, Isola and maybe Martin as core backups. Not too shabby. Lots of money left over for FA pitching and whatever hole we need to fill, i.e. catcher, etc.).

The Pohlads are smart people. You don’t get to where they are by being too hasty in your actions or by buying “bad luck” as an excuse. Like any successful business leaders, they will provide opportunity, but also demand accountability. Despite the late season swoon (actually, the inevitable has been pretty obvious since June), the Twins are well positioned with both players and available salary space to be much better next year. However, as has been pointed out before, to truly be a contender as a mid market team, the team will need to stay healthy, play consistently excellent fundamental baseball, and make the right calls on free agency and trades. The sad fact facing the Pohlads is that the current FO and coaching staff have not demonstrated an ability to maximise the team’s potential in these areas of demonstrable underperformance. So, do we think the 2023 Twins under current mgmt/leadership can improve enough in these areas to make a run for a Pennant? What evidence would indicate that possibility is strong, or even exists? The Pohlads will decide. They are smart people.

…..too bad we aren’t built for April through September.

…..and we wonder why we haven’t won a playoff game in forever….

Perhaps the best stat posted all year to demonstrate why this team really is not as good as we all hoped/thought they were. You want to actually win the Pennant, let alone the World Series? Well, you’d better figure out how to beat the best teams more consistently. Sure, the power 5 are comprised mostly of the biggest spenders, but we are being outperformed by every single team. This destroys the old, lame excuse “well, we don’t spend enough and those teams have an unfair advantage because they have bigger markets and better owners”. Nope - our pathetic record against the best teams is about leadership, culture, confidence, and getting the most out of your players, Our players are plenty good enough to be much more competitive against these teams. I sure hope the Pohlads read the TD.

We all know the old saying: “You pay your money and you take your chance”. But this pattern goes beyond “bad luck”. Maybe we somewhat knew what we were getting with Paddack. Maeda produced for a while - we’ll see if and how he comes back. But as trade deadline deals, the Mahle and Dyson trades were beyond terrible. So sorry, but not all of us believe in “bad luck”, particularly when it happens over and over. Our owners are savvy people and won’t/shouldn’t fall for the BS excuse of “bad luck” if that is what the FO is offering up. Someone has to be accountable. BTW, it looks like zero wins vs. the Dodgers, Astros and Yankees over the last three series with them this past month or so. Do we blame that on “bad luck” and all the injuries as well? Bottom line: If you believe in “bad luck”, your organization will be mired in mediocrity in perpetuity. It doesn’t matter if it’s the Twins, your business, hell, even your love life. If want your “luck” to change, you do something about it. Period. The Pohlads didn’t just fall off a turnip truck - they understand that.

Wallner should be able to provide as much value right now vis-a-vis Kepler. At least he could play in the field even if he k’d looking each time up.

Or Mahle may never be any good again. Who knows? The point is that based on current expected value, we have lost this trade. It can’t be argued otherwise. Yes, I agree - we traded for a pitcher to help us now and next year. But he can’t help us now and his expected value next year has decreased substantially. Meanwhile, the assets sent are performing at or above expected levels at the time of the trade, At this point, based on expected returns, we have lost this trade, potentially big time. I hope it turns out differently. But the bigger picture is the pattern of our FO getting fleeced for injured arms. Fool me once, shame on you; twice shame on me; three times is an absolute joke.

Re the jury, it’s back. Sure, he returns next year (but I’ll take the under on Mahle next season as well - hope I’m wrong). But, the bigger point is that Mahle was a trade deadline acquisition in order to help this year. That is why we gave up so many assets for him. If we wanted to trade for him in the off-season, the price would have been much lower (especially now that he’s shut down with unclear expectations for the future). The trade was a disaster. Yes, we got fleeced. Again. For the third time. The egg on the face of our vaunted FO is getting hard to wash off. Lopez will be part of the pen next year, but expectations should be tempered - expect an every other day 6-7th inning type role behind Duran, Jax, Thielbar and the two other relievers we’d better add in the off-season. Fulmer may or may not be resigned - it’s beginning to look less likely.

Nice win today, but I’m having a hard time getting over how badly we have been fleeced on the Mahle, Paddock, and Dyson trades. It’s crazy how bad our FO did on those. I can’t believe the Pohlads fall for the bs excuses the FO must be offering up - the owners should be livid.

Fleeced again. What is that - 3 times now in the past couple of years? To all of us who say “Hey, we have him next year though”, I’ll take the under next year too. Honestly, how can anyone defend these trades? We spend years developing young talent, then ship it off in exchange for damaged arms. It’s embarrassing, pathetic, and inexcusable. Who is accountable? Anyone? First time, you get the “hey it happens” excuse. Second time, “guys, seriously now, bad luck or not, we need to be more careful”. Third time, hell, they’ll probably fire an intern.

This includes 4 games against Cleveland with a WE% of 89% and above and 6 games overall. Geez.

Nice night down on the farm for some of our top prospects, et al. Don’t look now, but some of them could be major leaguers next year.