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    When the Twins Go Buying ... Who Are They Selling?


    Jeremy Nygaard

    As we approach the trade deadline - What? It’s only a little over two months away - there are a number of moves the Twins could and possibly should consider to help enhance their ability to make a deep run into the playoffs.

    But before we jump into those names, let’s examine who (or what?) other teams will be asking about. Let’s assume, too, that the Twins will make top-5 prospect Royce Lewis, top-15 prospect Alex Kirilloff and top pitching prospect Brusdar Graterol off limits.

    Image courtesy of © Steven Branscombe-USA TODAY Sports

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    Some other things to consider, in all the moves the Twins made last year - Eduardo Escobar, Ryan Pressly, Zach Duke, Lance Lynn, Brian Dozier and Fernando Rodney - they only took back three players (of 13) that were already on the 40-man. None of those three players remain on the 40-man and only one, Chase DeJong, who has been removed from the 40-man twice since being acquired, is still in the organization.

    Acting in such a way gives the sellers more opportunities to both evaluate their current roster and be active on the waiver wire. It would be fair to believe sellers in the current market would look at doing the same type of thing.

    As I mentioned in a Finer Points article, many of the Twins acquisitions came with one more year before needing to be added to the 40-man roster. The Twins could face a roster crunch in getting these players onto their 40-man in November. Could that lead to some of those players who were acquired last year being flipped?

    Or could it lead to more aggressively pursuing players as rentals, knowing that they can replace them with some of their better prospects?

    Those are questions we don’t have answers to, but when the Twins call or take a call, what names are they going to be hearing on the other end?

    SS Wander Javier

    Born: 12/29/1998 (20 years old)

    Current level: Extended Spring Training

    Why would he be targeted? Javier was a top prospect in the 2015 international class and, despite spending a significant amount of time injured, has enhanced his prospect status with his performance in the Appy League in 2017. Javier is expected to join the Kernels as soon as his body is ready.

    Why should the Twins consider moving him? With Jorge Polanco’s entrenched at shortstop and possessing a long-term deal, the Twins are good at one of the middle infield spots (whether you believe he can stick at shortstop or needs to move to second). Royce Lewis is higher up the organizational ladder and Luis Arraez is showing his bat plays at the major league level. Moving Javier would be dealing from depth. Javier is a player that would need to be added to the 40-man in November.

    Other thoughts: How much value does Nick Gordon have? He’s currently taking up a 40-man spot and hasn’t spent a lot of time on the field in 2019. Will Luis Arraez’s value ever be higher? Moving any of these three middle infielders doesn’t deliver a huge blow to the team’s depth.

    C Ben Rortvedt

    Born: 9/25/1997 (21 years old)

    Current level: Pensacola (AA)

    Why would he be targeted? Rortvedt is the highest-ceiling catching prospect in the system and he’s only two promotions from the big leagues. An outstanding defensive catcher, Rortvedt, at a minimum, is a future bench piece on a major league team. He’s progressing offensively, with a keen eye at the plate and a chance to have an average or better hit tool. Additionally, Rortvedt would not need to be added to the 40-man roster until November of 2020, when he should definitely be ready to compete for a big-league job.

    Why should the Twins consider moving him? Though Jason Castro is a free agent at year’s end, we have realized that Mitch Garver is the real deal. Garver also entered the year with just over a year of service time, so he can be the primary catcher for the next five years. There should be little worry about the position in the short-term, despite the overall lack of depth in the system currently.

    OF Trevor Larnach

    Born: 2/26/1997 (22 years old)

    Current level: Fort Myers (high-A)

    Why would he be targeted? Any team can look at the Twins outfield and know it’s going to be tough to break into the lineup there. Top outfield prospect, Alex Kirilloff, is getting work at first base. So where does that leave this outfield prospect? As an asset who doesn’t need to be added to the 40-man until after the 2021 season.

    Why should the Twins consider moving him? Mainly for the same reasons other teams would ask about him. He’s a luxury.

    Other thoughts: Luke Raley and Brent Rooker fit in the same category, for the most part. Both are currently on the injured list and Rooker has not had a good start to the his 2019 campaign. Raley would require a more immediate decision (2019 eligible) than Rooker (2020), but neither player has a clear path to the majors. Could Jake Cave be a trade chip? I think he proved last year that he is certainly capable of being an everyday centerfielder.

    P Jordan Balazovic

    Born: 9/17/1988 (20 years old)

    Current level: Fort Myers (high-A)

    Why would he be targeted? The prospect that would hurt the most to deal is going to be the one most coveted. That’s how this works. Balazovic went from “barely on the radar” to “whoa!” over the course of seven A-ball starts this season. It would be hard to leave him out of the organization's Top 6 or 7 prospects right now and he’s probably becoming a Top 70 prospect league-wide. That is, if he continues on this torrid streak.

    Why should the Twins consider moving him? The Twins know him better than anyone and if they feel this isn’t close to sustainable, they could sell high. In between Balazovic and a big-league rotation spot, there are a number of other starters, albeit with less ceiling.

    Other thoughts: Balazovic (2020 eligible) isn’t the only high ceiling pitching prospect in the stable. Pensacola pitcher Jorge Alcala (2019), Fort Myers’ pitcher Jhoan Duran (2019) and Kernels pitcher Blayne Enlow (2021) could all tickle someone’s fancy.

    Obviously, there are others that could be included as well.

    But the Twins have another pretty enormous trade chip too.

    Competitive Balance Round A Draft Pick #39

    Pool allotment: $1,906,800

    Part of the reason that I wanted to push this out well before the trade deadline is because the Twins only have a handful of days to use this asset in a trade. Competitive Balance picks are the only ones that can be traded and obviously have to be moved before the draft.

    Five of the 12 awarded picks for the 2019 draft have already been moved.

    The Yankees traded Sonny Gray and a prospect for pick #38 and a prospect.

    The #40 pick moved from the A’s to the Rays in the deal that netted the A’s Jurickson Profar.

    The Rangers traded bullpen piece Alex Claudio to the Brewers for pick #41.

    The Diamondbacks acquired a Comp Round B pick from the Cardinals in the Paul Goldschmidt trade. The Marines also acquired a Comp Round B pick from the Indians in the their Edwin Encarnacion/Carlos Santana/Tampa Bay trade.

    As you can see, there is plenty of value in a Comp Round A pick. But it’s more than just the pick itself, it’s the money that’s attached to it. Giving yourself an extra nearly $2 million can benefit teams in a number of ways. Want another really good prospect? You got it. Want to get more creative and push a guy down the board ala Sean Manaea or Dax Cameron? You got that too.

    (Yeah, I know, the Diamondbacks are kings of this draft and draft four times before pick #39… but maybe they want in on this action?)

    The Twins might not be able to get Will Smith straight up for this pick, but it would go a long way. The Reds definitely wouldn’t give up Rasiel Iglesias for just the pick, but again… it would be a nice piece. The Nationals and Sean Doolittle, now that’s reasonable. Or maybe they aim higher.

    What do you think?

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    Featured Comments

     

    I figured for 2 2/3 years, the Twins should pay for 2 2/3 of the 7 years contract, which would be about $80m. Take on the $7.5 payment this year, the $15m the next two and $6m in each year from '22-'28.

    On the money, I suspect Washington would simply be responsible for the signing bonus, and the acquiring team would take on the annual salary / deferments earned for 2019-2021. Not much more than your estimate, though -- $93 mil at the moment, and which may only be ~$74 mil in present-day money due to deferments.

     

    The Twins could have a leg up on some bidders, though, because that money would put some of them over (or further over) the luxury tax threshold. They might need to send back some dead money to Washington. Either way, it would take elite prospects to get it done, though.

     

    The cost would likely be the pitcher the Nationals want, the hitter the Nationals want and the another top 10 prospect...maybe the Twins get one veto.

     

    Kirilloff, Graterol/Balazovic, Javier... seems... maybe a little light?

    It does seem a little light, in this context. Washington isn't in a tear-down mode, so I think they'd want elite prospects that could contribute very, very soon (even Lewis might seem a bit far off right now), and at positions where they don't already have assets. Kirilloff might have to play 1B for them, which is perhaps sub-optimal. Are the other pieces good enough to make up for that?

    I haven't seen anyone discussing this possibility yet, but is there any news coming out of Oakland regarding the availability of Blake Treinen? He is arbitration eligible next year and then a FA in 2021.

     

    Lou Trivino is another possibility as I look at Oakland's bullpen. With Oakland sitting at .500 and no real chance of winning their division, I would guess they will be sellers at deadline time again.

     

    I get what you mean, but cmon now, you don’t think any of Jeffers, Baddoo, Gordon, Rortvedt, Severino, Gonsalves, Thorpe, Blankenhorn, Alcala, Celestino, Enlow, Arraez, Cave, and Rooker could bring back anything that would substantially improve this team??

    Our window pretty wide open, which means I’d definitely pursue better quality than one start from Jaime Garcia, but I’d also like to hold on to some of our top 10, which would give us the flexibility to improve our team next offseason and next season’s deadline. I mean, despite being WS contenders for the past 2 seasons, the Astros have still managed to hold onto Kyle Tucker, Forrest Whitley, J.B. Bukaukas, Yordan Alvarez, and Corbin Martin, why can’t we, at the very least, hold onto Lewis, Kirilloff, Graterol, Balazovic, Larnach, and Duran for now?

     

    Astros sent their number 3, 9, and 11 prospects for Verlander.......

    Astros sent their number 3, 9, and 11 prospects for Verlander.......

    Verlander had a full no trade clause. He didn't seem interested in going anywhere else but Houston. Tough to squeeze max value from a single bidder.

    Outside Twin's Daily, I don't recall most websites loving Gonsalves........but it should remind everyone why "untouchable" or "can't fail" or "worst case he's helpful" just isn't true....

    So you don’t remember him as a Top 100 prospect for a few years in a row topping out in the 60’s range (if I remember correctly)

     

    So you don’t remember him as a Top 100 prospect for a few years in a row topping out in the 60’s range (if I remember correctly)

     

    If he hit 60s, I stand corrected.......also, sort of proves the point that some guys should be traded for actual MLB players, and not counted on.

     

    Of course, he can still be a legit MLB player, but his stuff isn't GREAT, and he was hurt for some time....

    Edited by Mike Sixel

    You want them to add a #1 pitcher and/or a closer...

     

    but don't want a "significant piece"?

     

    I'd say those are the most significant pieces they'd be looking to add... and the most costly.

    And you want them to add a #1 starter, but not at the cost of any of their top prospects?

     

    The original post led me to believe you wouldn't trade any of them.

     

    In which case, the "significant" help won't really be significant.

     

    Adding a guy in the 4th spot of the rotation will make no difference in the post season.

     

    Add a guy that pushes Berrios down to #2.

     

    THAT has a chance to make a difference.

    So you don’t remember him as a Top 100 prospect for a few years in a row topping out in the 60’s range (if I remember correctly)

    According to bbref, the following are his recorded appearances in national top 100 lists:

     

    Baseball America:

    2017: #99

    2018: #97

     

    MLB Pipeline:

    2017: #92

    2018: #78

     

    Edit: Saw your link. Bbref must only show preseason rankings.

    Edited by Mr. Brooks

     

    http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2017/?list=prospects

    He was #64 and Gordon was #30.
    He was lower in 2016 with Jay high on that list

    I'm not sure that's a reliable list, as I think it was a midseason update, and those tend to remove graduates (note no Bellinger on that 2017 list) but may not properly re-order the remaining players?

     

    B-Ref archives preseason rankings from BA, MLB, and BP. They have Gonsalves at #78 by MLB pre-2018, and that was his highest ranking:

     

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=gonsal001ste

     

    If he was ever truly considered #64 overall, it was brief and a decidedly minority opinion.

     

    I figured for 2 2/3 years, the Twins should pay for 2 2/3 of the 7 years contract, which would be about $80m. Take on the $7.5 payment this year, the $15m the next two and $6m in each year from '22-'28.

     

    The cost would likely be the pitcher the Nationals want, the hitter the Nationals want and the another top 10 prospect...maybe the Twins get one veto.

     

    Kirilloff, Graterol/Balazovic, Javier... seems... maybe a little light?

     

    Personally, I don't think the market price would bear that... and as others have noted, Washington is likely to shed expiring contracts, but not Sherzer. In today's market where no one wants to spend high dollars on aging FAs or give up their prospects, I think the market value for Scherzer would be lower unless Washington is eating a lot of that contract.

     

    Certainly could be wrong. 

     

    Personally, I don't think the market price would bear that... and as others have noted, Washington is likely to shed expiring contracts, but not Sherzer. In today's market where no one wants to spend high dollars on aging FAs or give up their prospects, I think the market value for Scherzer would be lower unless Washington is eating a lot of that contract.

     

    Certainly could be wrong. 

    I think a number of teams would love to sign a guy like Scherzer to a 2-3 deal at a high AAV right now -- and that's exactly what they'd be paying in prospects to acquire from Washington. It's the longer term commitments that generally scare them off.

     

    In that sense, Jeremy's proposal might be an accurate market offer -- but Washington might prefer to keep Scherzer under those conditions anyway.

     

    The point that I was trying to make is still stands. many thought highly of him, not just those of us on TD.

    Well, the other issue is, not all prospect rankings are equal in terms of value. I think the general consensus was that Gonsalves was rarely considered to have top-of-the-rotation potential -- but had a relatively high floor. That may be enough to get onto a few top 100 lists, but not enough to generate any significant trade interest.

     

    For example, Adalberto Mejia snuck onto one of those midseason top 100 update lists once with a similar profile (and was probably bubbling just under Gonsalves on others, I'd estimate around 130) -- and all he returned in trade was 1.5 seasons of Eduardo Nunez.

     

    I'd guess it's more likely no one was ever really willing to give up meaningful value in trade for Gonsalves, rather than the Twins held on to him too long.

     

    And you want them to add a #1 starter, but not at the cost of any of their top prospects?

    The original post led me to believe you wouldn't trade any of them.

    In which case, the "significant" help won't really be significant.

    Adding a guy in the 4th spot of the rotation will make no difference in the post season.

    Add a guy that pushes Berrios down to #2.

    THAT has a chance to make a difference.

    Maybe? For some reason, the Astros and Dodgers have consistently managed to acquire pitchers that I would consider significant (Rich Hill, Darvish, Verlander, Cole) without giving up their best prospects. On the other hand, the Cubs and Red Sox have traded away ELITE prospects for their pitchers.

     

    I think there are a lot of guys that could slide into the #2 spot behind Berrios and not cost one of the Twins top prospects:

    Zack Wheeler

    Zack Greinke

    Marcus Stroman

    Mike Minor

    Robbie Ray

    Sonny Gray

    All of those guys are currently pitching as well or better than Perez/Odorizzi and projected to pitch better than them going forward.

     

    Astros sent their number 3, 9, and 11 prospects for Verlander.......

    Baddoo and Celestino are the equivalent to what Daz Cameron was for the Astros, same goes for Franklin Perez who’s comparable to Enlow and Duran, and Rortvedt is pretty much Jake Rogers without the power (yet), but since Jeffers would be available too, teams got 2 quality options to choose from.

     

    So yeah, maybe you got me on Duran, but other than that, there’s no reason to give up any of our other elite prospects just yet.

    Edited by ChrisKnutson

     

    Baddoo and Celestino are the equivalent to what Daz Cameron was for the Astros, same goes for Franklin Perez who’s comparable to Enlow and Duran, and Rortvedt is pretty much Jake Rogers without the power (yet), but since Jeffers would be available too, teams got 2 quality options to choose from.

    So yeah, maybe you got me on Duran, but other than that, there’s no reason to give up any of our other elite prospects just yet.

    I agree it depends on how motivated the seller is and what the market is for the player.  Other than Sale it seems the going rate is a top 3 or 4 player and then a couple more around the top 10.  Sherzer is a top of the league pitcher so definitely could cost more than that who knows.  I think giving them our top three is a bit excessive though.

     

    Why wouldn't he cost a lot in terms of prospects? Unless he was owed like $50+ mil a year, I'm not sure the money really matters here. I get that theoretically, at $35 mil a year, he should cost less in terms of prospects than what Boston gave up for Sale a few years ago -- but Washington's not dealing him based on that. If the return is less than Sale's, they almost certainly just hang on to Scherzer.

     

    Boston traded for Chris Sale when he was 27 with 3 more years of control with the understanding that it is much easier to extend players when you have them before they ever reach free agency. With that ability, they then extended him through 2024.  On top of all of that was the depressed salary that Sale was earning at the time

     

    Conversely, Max Sherzer, as great as he is, is currently 34 years old with control through his age 36 season, and he is literally the highest paid pitcher in MLB.

     

    If you don't understand why that means that Sherzer will return less of a package than Sale, well, I'll order whatever you're drinking. 

     

    If he hit 60s, I stand corrected.......also, sort of proves the point that some guys should be traded for actual MLB players, and not counted on.

     

    Of course, he can still be a legit MLB player, but his stuff isn't GREAT, and he was hurt for some time....

     

    Ah, I was gonna comment on how he to got to 64, but I see someone else beat me to it.  Nevermind!  Gotta finish reading these comments before I add in :)

     

    Ah, I was gonna comment on how he to got to 64, but I see someone else beat me to it.  Nevermind!  Gotta finish reading these comments before I add in :)

     

    He was not far from top 100 in 2018 on Fangraphs, IIRC.....but not sure before that (and not this year).

    The market will set the return for an ace. It is going to matter more how many teams are in play rather than how much another team was able to get for Sale or Verlander.

     

    The Twins can play in this market. Everyone has prospects like their number 4 or greater prospects but having top end prospects in Kirilloff or Lewis can set them apart if the market is competitive.

     

    Maybe? For some reason, the Astros and Dodgers have consistently managed to acquire pitchers that I would consider significant (Rich Hill, Darvish, Verlander, Cole) without giving up their best prospects. On the other hand, the Cubs and Red Sox have traded away ELITE prospects for their pitchers.

     

    I think there are a lot of guys that could slide into the #2 spot behind Berrios and not cost one of the Twins top prospects:

    Zack Wheeler

    Zack Greinke

    Marcus Stroman

    Mike Minor

    Robbie Ray

    Sonny Gray

    All of those guys are currently pitching as well or better than Perez/Odorizzi and projected to pitch better than them going forward.

    Wheeler, Grienke, Ray, Gray and amazingly Minor are all on competing teams.  Stroman is the lone player from a team in a selling position at this point.

     

    I would also argue they have been as good or worse than Perez/Odorizzi so far since Odorizzi has the best ERA of the bunch, Perez is 4th (Wheeler's ERA is almost 5).  But they do project to be better going forward and probably will be.

     

    And I doubt Sonny Gray is available even if Cincy does sell. They didn't sign him to an additional 3 years to trade him. Alex Wood, Tanner Roark and Jose Iglesias might be available.

     

    I believe we are on Grienke's no-trade clause as well. Not sure if he has the kind where he picks the teams every year but we were on it at one point.  He would have to want to come here which might not be an issue. He has previously said he wants to be in the National League so he can bat.

    Edited by SomeGuy

    Boston traded for Chris Sale when he was 27 with 3 more years of control with the understanding that it is much easier to extend players when you have them before they ever reach free agency. With that ability, they then extended him through 2024. On top of all of that was the depressed salary that Sale was earning at the time

     

    Conversely, Max Sherzer, as great as he is, is currently 34 years old with control through his age 36 season, and he is literally the highest paid pitcher in MLB.

     

    If you don't understand why that means that Sherzer will return less of a package than Sale, well, I'll order whatever you're drinking.

    I understand the differences between Sale and Scherzer, but I am not sure it makes much practical difference in terms of what actually happens here. It's not like Washington is obligated to deal Scherzer for X% of the Sale return, even if we estimate Scherzer's surplus value as only X% of Sale's.




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