Week in Review: From Bad to Worst

It is clear the team needs to shake up the lineup and position player side of things. Maybe (hopefully) we can acquire some young, athletic, MLB ready or near MLB ready position players if or when we trade Lopez Ryan or Ober. Of course I don't have much confidence in our front office to get the right type of trade return after this year's underwhelming fire sale.

In the OF we've got some guys getting close. Jenkins, Fedko, Rodriguez, Gonzalez and Rosario. Add in Martin as a backup. With Buxton in CF, we just need a couple of these guys to pan out and then we can dump our dead weight like Roden, Outman, Wallner and Larnach.

In the IF it's clear we need an everyday 1b and we have no viable players coming up in the minors. We need to acquire someone real either through trade or less likely, free agency. Clemens could be backup for first and in RF but I don't think he'll hit enough to give him the everyday job. 2nd should be set with Keaschal. Lee can play a decent SS but I don't think his bat will ever be more than avg. Lewis seems totally lost right now. If he can find his swing and power again, great. If not, that's one more hole we need to fill. Culpeper and Eels look like middle IF guys who can help, but we need to find some talent from outside the organization. 2026 should be one long spring training, figuring out who we have, where they can play and who has a future with the team. At least we'll get to see some debuts and a bunch of kids playing hard trying to earn a full-time job and pay raise. Gonna be some growing pains, especially on the pitching side :(

1 hour ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

I need to go for a long walk in the country. This is too depressing.  

What country?  i'm gonna go to the game tonight.

What a contrast. For the Jays, it's let the good times roll. 

Anyway, it's an opportunity to see this Twins group in the flesh. (with "the experience" on the mound, no less)

No expectations, just going to take it all in. Que sera, sera.

11 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

The sports media in Minnesota is soft compared to the test of the US. Dude said he wouldn't take coaching in the middle of an awful year long stretch. That's not good. 

I think you could speculate that there are issues between Lewis and Rocco. 

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

So...the media should pounce? ;)

I don't disagree on Rocco, BTW. He should've been gone by at least last year.

I just don't think the media is responsible for the dumb **** Lewis says. 

My guess is Lewis is trying to find a way to say "I am not taking advice from a crappy coach like Rocco" without saying that exact phrase. 

54 minutes ago, LewFordLives said:

I really don't see the point in ramping up Pablo to make a couple meaningless starts. If the goal is to move his contract, wouldn't it be better to come back 100 percent next season and then maybe trade him at the deadline?  I don't think a couple late September starts are going to have much influence on another teams decision about whether to pursue him.

If you are trying to trade him in the offseason you would be trying to show he is healthy.   Right wrong or indifferent I think this is a case of Pablo feels healthy and wants to pitch again.  

I don't see any scenario where we trade Pablo and Ryan in the offseason.  You are keeping 1 to lead the young guys.  Now getting him healthy increases you options but even still Pablo would not be valued anywhere near what Ryan would get you right now.  

I have an argument going on in my own head.  I really think the front office wants to put a good product on the field next year.  That means they have Ryan and Pablo.  The issue is that leaves 2 starting spots for about 5-6 arms (Matthews, SWR, Abel, Bradley, Festa, maybe Ohl).  That tends to portend a trade.  However, a trade would likely include a high end pitching prospect in return so likely not creating another hole unless the only return is hitters.  I just don't quite see how they plan to manage this roster.  

35 minutes ago, LambchoP said:

In the OF we've got some guys getting close. Jenkins, Fedko, Rodriguez, Gonzalez and Rosario. Add in Martin as a backup. With Buxton in CF, we just need a couple of these guys to pan out and then we can dump our dead weight like Roden, Outman, Wallner and Larnach.

Fans are so funny man. Fedko is close, but Roden, who is both younger and better, is dead weight. 

6 minutes ago, P Meyer said:

I think you could speculate that there are issues between Lewis and Rocco. 

Last year fans speculated there were issues between Lewis and Correa. 

Maybe Lewis is the clubhouse cancer. 

12 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

I really think the front office wants to put a good product on the field next year.  

I have zero faith this is actually the case. Pohlads will want a near minimum payroll so I expect Ryan and Lopez are gone in the offseason. 100+ losses is a near lock in my opinion for 2026. If things go poorly it could get 2025 Rockies ugly next year.

Just now, lunemann said:

I have zero faith this is actually the case. Pohlads will want a near minimum payroll so I expect Ryan and Lopez are gone in the offseason. 100+ losses is a near lock in my opinion for 2026. If things go poorly it could get 2025 Rockies ugly next year.

Say what you will,  since 2017 this front office has always tried to put a good product on the field.   This team will not lose a 100 games next year.  What has really changed.  Right now we are putting up non competitive at bats or pitching performance by players who are AAAA players trying to see if they can be MLB players.  You can do this with 1-2 players and be competitive.  When you are doing it with 6-8 you will lose a lot of games.  Gasper, Julien and Martin will most likely not be on the team next year.  We still have some solid players in Keaschall, Lee, Buxton,  Jeffers and Lewis.  Say what you will, we aren't that far off on the position side.  

3 hours ago, NYCTK said:

Fans are so funny man. Fedko is close, but Roden, who is both younger and better, is dead weight. 

It is amazing isn't it, Eeles is coming to save the day, Julien is like a half of year older and outperformed him and he is done and Eeles is a savior. 

Some Twins fans just love way too old of minor league players to be the Twins saviors. The want to trade a whole group of mid 20's prospects that haven't panned out with another group of mid 20's (or older) and are hoping for a different results. What is that called again?🤷‍♂️

Not sure now is the time to panic on the new prospects, especially the the SP. I mean we are talking about an incredibly small sample size. They are coming into a new team, with new coaches and different expectations. Approach changes, pitch mixes, you name it. If they were 100% MLB-ready, lights-out SP, they would not have been traded. 

6 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

Say what you will,  since 2017 this front office has always tried to put a good product on the field.   This team will not lose a 100 games next year.  What has really changed.  Right now we are putting up non competitive at bats or pitching performance by players who are AAAA players trying to see if they can be MLB players.  You can do this with 1-2 players and be competitive.  When you are doing it with 6-8 you will lose a lot of games.  Gasper, Julien and Martin will most likely not be on the team next year.  We still have some solid players in Keaschall, Lee, Buxton,  Jeffers and Lewis.  Say what you will, we aren't that far off on the position side.  

Sorry, gotta disagree here. I am convinced that (barring injury) Lopez and Ryan will be moved this offseason. As the FO is not allowed to spend any money on anyone, the lineups you see today will essentially be the lineups you see next year (if not in name, in quality). We may see more prospects in 2026, but not enough turn the tide. 100 losses next year is possible if not likely.

The only potential saving grace here is the glut of SP prospects. Success from that group might mean the difference between 105 losses and 90 losses.

17 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

 Gasper, Julien and Martin will most likely not be on the team next year.  We still have some solid players in Keaschall, Lee, Buxton,  Jeffers and Lewis.  Say what you will, we aren't that far off on the position side.  

So those three and I will throw in Clemens, Fitzgerald, and Outman (possibly Larnach).  that makes 6-7 guys currently on the active roster that have to be replaced, and how again is the Twins not far off on the position side? and where are the replacements coming from? (Jenkins, Erod, Culpepper isn't enough) so it has to come from FA (which they don't do) or those guys currently on the roster. Unless of course they trade away one or two of Ryan/Lopez and then there is a hole there, right? 

This FO has totally screwed up the roster construction of the team. 

Just now, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Sorry, gotta disagree here. I am convinced that (barring injury) Lopez and Ryan will be moved this offseason. As the FO is not allowed to spend any money on anyone, the lineups you see today will essentially be the lineups you see next year (if not in name, in quality). We may see more prospects in 2026, but not enough turn the tide. 100 losses next year is possible if not likely.

The only potential saving grace here is the glut of SP prospects. Success from that group might mean the difference between 105 losses and 90 losses.

If Ryan had to be moved he would have been moved at the deadline.  This is the issue most don't want to discuss - why was he kept?   I still think its a high probability 1 or both is moved,  but you need at least 1-2 veterans in any pitching group.  1 of them will be the leader for 2026.  I still think its Lopez due to the lack of value.  If you think its money related then Pablo will be the 1 traded.   If this is truly a tear down and 2026 is not a focus,  then yes you trade both and you don't care.  

I still think this is a .500 club next year or around there.  

6 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Possible for sure. I'm not sure how that excuses not trying to fix things. 

It's not but if he doesn't believe in the advice he is being given, I can understand why he is hesitant to make changes. I guess I am understanding of players not believing in the coaching and development being provided by the team when I also don't believe in it.

2 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

So those three and I will throw in Clemens, Fitzgerald, and Outman (possibly Larnach).  that makes 6-7 guys currently on the active roster that have to be replaced, and how again is the Twins not far off on the position side? and where are the replacements coming from? (Jenkins, Erod, Culpepper isn't enough) so it has to come from FA (which they don't do) or those guys currently on the roster. Unless of course they trade away one or two of Ryan/Lopez and then there is a whole there, right? 

This FO has totally screwed up the roster construction of the team. 

I think Outman is your Buxton insurance.    Defensive/Pinch runner 

Your outfield is  Roden/Jenkins,  Buxton,   Wallner  - Roden becomes 4th outfielder when Jenkins comes up

Infield is Lewis, Lee, Keashall,   ???? 

Catcher -  Jeffers/Pereda   

Right now only 1st base is really a question mark.  We have found decent to above average production the last 2 years there.  Larnach is most likely traded.   Lewis gets next season to figure it out,  if not Lee moves over to 3rd.    From what I see we need 1 utility player and a 1st baseman.   If there is underperformance in the outfield, you have Fedko/Rodriguez and Gonzalez as options.   

5 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

 If this is truly a tear down and 2026 is not a focus,

Who on the position side are they running out there that says 26 is the focus? Martin, Outman, Clemens, Fitzgerald, Larnach? (Could have said Roden) sure you can say Lee and Lewis (But who else do they have?) The position side of the 40 man is such a joke it is filled with players likely to be back (Buxton, Jeffers, Lewis, Lee, Wallne, Keaschallr) or guys that probably shouldn't back (Larnach, Outman, Martin, Fitzgerald, Clemens, Julien, Gasper and Vazquez)

41 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I agree the Twins manager and front office are terrible. 

As for Martin he isn't a major league starter and in no world be given a job. I am OK with them playing him to see if he can be legit utility player. The Twins are loaded with replacement level or below players and Martin is one of them. 

How can you say yeah, Falvey & Co are terrible but Martin still isn't a legit MLB starter. IMO. It's irresponsible to evaluate Martin by the way he's been managed. Twins plans to get rid Castro & the hole that it'd create, They invented Martin to be their utility player. The problem is that he's not an utility player but he is a legit starting 2Bman once given a legit chance. Many thought that Rooker wasn't a legit MLB starter. Yet he was more suitable to play the OF & a better fit for the Falvey's hitting philosophies than Martin. Remove Falvey & Co. from the equation, give Martin adequate time to readjust to stick at 2B & his old swing. Then I predict that he'll be that OB machine, terror on the bases & slick fielding 2Bman that the Twins desperately need. If he doesn't change in that time then yeah, add him to the heap of players that this regime have broken.

2 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Who on the position side are they running out there that says 26 is the focus? Martin, Outman, Clemens, Fitzgerald, Larnach? (Could have said Roden) sure you can say Lee and Lewis (But who else do they have?) The position side of the 40 man is such a joke it is filled with players likely to be back (Buxton, Jeffers, Lewis, Lee, Wallne, Keaschallr) or guys that probably shouldn't back (Larnach, Outman, Martin, Fitzgerald, Clemens, Julien, Gasper and Vazquez)

 

Keaschall is 1.1 WAR in 90 at bats.     Lee is .7 War since July.   Buxton is Buxton.   Lewis  is a tough one.  He still has the talent to be a top 50 to 75 mlb player.   Jeffers we only have for 2026.   Rodriguez or Roden could give you positive play in left field.  Wallner - can be a 2.0 WAR hitter if making contact.  My personal opinion is we have too many all or nothing hitters.  I would be fine getting rid of Wallner and then putting in a contact hitter like Gonzalez if he is ready.  

Gonzalez, Jenkins and Culpepper are much better hitters than Larnach, Wallner, Martin and this version of Lewis.  This team does well when you can string things together.  You need 2-3 more contact hitter to keep things going.   

Both are young talented pitchers, I thought we could have got a better return for Jax though. Just Bradley and no other prospects was kinda low return. 

They might want to look at maybe theyre tipping pitches. It looked too good to be true for the lowly white Sox, especially since they didnt score more than a run in the rest of both games. 

We should have kept Erasimo Ramirez, now we're down some reliever depth. 

12 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

You know those guys in the minors are better hitters than Wallner? That's quite the leap. 

Wallner's prospect review since draft day is pretty spot on.  Power hitting outfield with questionable hit tool.  Slow runner with a great arm.   hit 45  Power 60  run 40   Arm  65    That is pretty much what we have gotten out of Wallner.  He has a ton of swing and miss 33% this year.  Go look at his 2022 stats in AA and AAA  - 170 strikeouts in 571 at bats -29%. 

Jenkins strikout rate this year -    50K in 217 at bats  to go with 41 BB -  23% and 4 year younger.  Hit 60 Power 60. 

Culpepper -  82 SO in 409 at bats -  20% strikeout rate.  He striking out 2 times to every walk.   Hit 55 Power 45

Gonzalez -  Hit 55 Power 40.   61 K to 406 at bats - 15%.   

Yes all 3 of these are much better contact hitters that Wallner ever was.   Other than Jenkins they don't have the power potential of Wallner.  Even still,  this offense needs more hitters, not a few more home runs.  

31 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

If Ryan had to be moved he would have been moved at the deadline.  This is the issue most don't want to discuss - why was he kept?   I still think its a high probability 1 or both is moved,  but you need at least 1-2 veterans in any pitching group.  1 of them will be the leader for 2026.  I still think its Lopez due to the lack of value.  If you think its money related then Pablo will be the 1 traded.   If this is truly a tear down and 2026 is not a focus,  then yes you trade both and you don't care.  

I still think this is a .500 club next year or around there.  

 

The market for Ryan was fairly small at the deadline. The offseason will allow for more suitors. The effort to move Ryan was there, somebody will meet their asking price this offseason. If the Twins feel the need to sign a veteran SP, it will be somebody just hanging on at the tail end of their career that can be had for a song.

There is no reason to believe this is anything other than a complete teardown. If 2026 was a focus, they would be making aggressive offensive moves (acquiring help-now players) instead of passive moves (dumping salary). This team will probably be the 2nd worst team in MLB next year. The only potential positive spin is the number of high-profile rookie to 2-year players that could turn things quicker than expected.

I, like a few others, believe the Twins will only be concerned about going as cheap as possible until the new CBA takes effect and the long-term MLB financial situation (read: salary cap) is worked out. At that point, they will probably revisit selling the team.

It is going to be a very long, very painful, upcoming 24 months for Twins fans.

3 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

Keaschall is 1.1 WAR in 90 at bats.     Lee is .7 War since July.   Buxton is Buxton.   Lewis  is a tough one.  He still has the talent to be a top 50 to 75 mlb player.   Jeffers we only have for 2026.   Rodriguez or Roden could give you positive play in left field.  Wallner - can be a 2.0 WAR hitter if making contact.  My personal opinion is we have too many all or nothing hitters.  I would be fine getting rid of Wallner and then putting in a contact hitter like Gonzalez if he is ready.  

Gonzalez, Jenkins and Culpepper are much better hitters than Larnach, Wallner, Martin and this version of Lewis.  This team does well when you can string things together.  You need 2-3 more contact hitter to keep things going.   

 

Can't really disagree with what you are saying but can disagree that they are set for 26 or even really that close in 26.  IMO is a huge stretch to say any minor league player is better than a major league players that have never really been below average league players (Minus Wallner in 18 games in 22). I sure hope all the Twins prospects turn out but banking on them being Keaschall like; might be a bit hopeful. 

So if the move on from Larnach (Which they should) they have a question mark in left, a fingers crossed Buxton stays healthy, and a platoon in right (Wallner and who?)  A left side of the infield that is a question mark on hitting (currently sitting at 84 and  88 OPS+) a second year player who is likely a stud, nobody at first, and a legit player catcher but FA to be. DH? With a bench of 29 year Outman, 27 year old Martin, 30 year old Clemens and a 30 year old back up catcher that is worse offensively than Vazquez? 

Assuming Roden (LH outfielder DH, playing the role of Laranch) is on the team, Not sure how ERod fits on the them (unless Buxton goes down), Culpepper could take SS or 3B, if 3rd Lewis to DH/1B, if SS Lee moves to 3B or utility role. Gonzalez/Rosario could be the platoon with Wallner and DH. As for Jenkins when he comes up you play him somewhere everyday and figure out what to do with the others.  This seems like a team that could if everything goes right could contend for the division, if not likely in the same place they are this year. (and if I was a betting man, I going big on the being in the same place)

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Now it is only "contact hitters", not hitters? Maybe. Sure. But ignoring power is a bold choice. You completely ignored the other part of my post......it's easier to score with power than contact in 2025 because pitchers are so good.

You need to win with contact,  good eyes  walks,  and solid power.   Wallners OBP is .320.  If Wallner is the 2023 and 2024 version that is a great Wallner .250 BA/.370 OBP/500+ OPS.   I don't know why he has regressed so much this year.  I still think he is in the plans for next year and has more upside than Larnach.  

Who said I ignored Power,   Culpepper and Jenkins are both very good power hitters,  Culpepper especially for his position.   They are different players and providing much more than primarily Power which Wallner relies on.  If the Power or contact goes away you are left with a Gallo.  

35 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Who on the position side are they running out there that says 26 is the focus? Martin, Outman, Clemens, Fitzgerald, Larnach? (Could have said Roden) sure you can say Lee and Lewis (But who else do they have?) The position side of the 40 man is such a joke it is filled with players likely to be back (Buxton, Jeffers, Lewis, Lee, Wallne, Keaschallr) or guys that probably shouldn't back (Larnach, Outman, Martin, Fitzgerald, Clemens, Julien, Gasper and Vazquez)

 

I don't know if I would call it a joke right now, just very young and inexperienced. There are still a few impact names relatively close in the minors. The bigger issue is the inability of Twins ownership to allow the the team to spend money on the right guys through this growth process.

Like I said before, the next 24 months will be very painful.