Grading Recent Trade Deadlines for the Minnesota Twins

I view the Mahle trade as being graded based on hindsight.   The injury muddles it, and if that wouldn't have happened - I believe this would have been a B+ or better.   Yes Steer and CES were part of it.  Steer is an average MLB player, and CES is just below average.     If they wouldn't have made the trade, then they would have been bashed for not being agressive as well.   MLB trades tend to be wins or losses.   Would we do the AJ to SF again.  YES.   Would we do the Araez for Pablo - YES.    But noone would do the Brunansky for Herr again...............

Hindsight is such a wonderful thing. Mahle and Dyson. How could you know they were or going to be injured.?  

Lopez. Mediocre career now having a lights out year. F for thinking about trading for him. F for having Cano throw more sliders than he should have. I can’t fault them for trading him but they shouldn’t have included Povich

So what did they lose by trading? 2 designated hitters,, 2 6th starters, a reliever that didn’t fir the Twins way and suspects. How can it be failing when you did not lose much?

I would grade the Mahle trade much better.  He wasn’t injured when we got him.  He was pitching well when he pitched.  He did better than Montas who was traded to the Yankees.  In fact most of the deadline deals that year didn’t work out if I remember correctly.  I say Montas because I bet he was the other pitcher we were likely trying to get.  
on Dyson I would rate that trade as a non factor for either team.  No one got anything from that trade.  The López trade was a loser because of our failure to develop Cano and Povich should be a solid back if rotation pitcher.

2 hours ago, old nurse said:

Hindsight is such a wonderful thing. Mahle and Dyson. How could you know they were or going to be injured.?  

Lopez. Mediocre career now having a lights out year. F for thinking about trading for him. F for having Cano throw more sliders than he should have. I can’t fault them for trading him but they shouldn’t have included Povich

So what did they lose by trading? 2 designated hitters,, 2 6th starters, a reliever that didn’t fir the Twins way and suspects. How can it be failing when you did not lose much?i

If my memory is correct, both were coming off arm issues during the seasons they were traded.  Twins seem to like this type of discount.

2 hours ago, Karbo said:

You forgot 2021

And that was the Nelson Cruz for Joe Ryan year, which was a crazy good trade.

6 minutes ago, TwinkieFan4life said:

If my memory is correct, both were coming off arm issues during the seasons they were traded.  Twins seem to like this type of discount.

Mahle pitched in 33 games the year before he was traded, Dyson 74 the year before he was traded. About the last player to not have issues was Cal Ripken 

2 hours ago, Karbo said:

You forgot 2021

Of course he did. There were 3 out of four good trades. Robles for a prospect now in Indy baseball was the only trade that was about equall. For a worn out Happ they got a couple games out of Grant and a prospect they used in part t get a season of Taylor. Everybody should remember the other 2 trades. 

3 hours ago, Karbo said:

You forgot 2021

I think he was only including seasons the team was contending for a play-off spot at the deadline. 

2021 was a good deadline year because that year brought back Ryan, SWR and Martin who are contributing to our current play-off run.

15 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Are we grading process or results? Process was ok (not great, not horrid) for these deadlines. Results were a mixed bag, with the Mahle and Lopez deals being so horrendous they will be brought up in Falvine lore forever. 

The process did not evaluate what Baltimore did to make a mediocre pitcher into an effective closer. Lopez reverted back to mediocrity, where he has remained.  He is one of the reasons I wouldn’t trade for the older player having a career year without a real deep dive. 

I think it should be common practice to perform thorough physicals with any new acquisition. Would be great if the Twins could grab a Frontline starter for the playoff push, but this year has too many teams not selling so the prices will be way too high. I do hope we grab some bullpen help at least. Relievers are usually a lot cheaper because of their volatility. Maybe we can get a decent arm with another year or two of control. Our lineup is fine, if we can beef up our pitching staff even a little, I'll call it a win:)

18 hours ago, TwinkieFan4life said:

If my memory is correct, both were coming off arm issues during the seasons they were traded.  Twins seem to like this type of discount.

Dyson there was rumblings that SF hid arm issues, or at minimum Dyson was hiding it from team.  Mahle had pitched a full season year prior and only missed a couple of starts in the year we traded for him.  He had history early in career, and had a IL stint a couple weeks prior to trade but to expect missing rest of that season and basically the whole next was not something teams were expecting. 

This FO gets an F when it comes to trading for pitchers.More often then not the pitcher they get ends up on the IL with shoulder or arm issues.We now also have Topa who is on the IL all season with a bad knee.

You rely the medicals from the trading team. Players aren’t submitting to physicals with every trade rumor. I would do the Mahle trade again when contending. If you can get a playoff quality starter and the biggest pieces you give up are two bats that can’t play average defense anywhere you do it every time.

5 hours ago, h2oface said:

I defer to @bean5302 just previous. He basically was injured, and they FO knew it and decided it wasn't a deal killer and made the overpay. Mahle had made a couple of starts after he came off the IL, and was a very questionable health risk. Absolutely. Pitching Well? I guess I don't consider a 4.40 ERA in 104 innings with Cincy "well". Maybe I have higher bars for "pitching well". Process? Whatever. Just because we needed better pitchers I don't consider trading for a blatant question mark a smart process. I hated the trade then, and of course, worse now. I didn't like him at all, anyway, especially because his wildness broke Buxton's hand in June of 2021 when we came back from a hip injury and we were needing him.  https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-twins-baseball-mlb-sports-96bf7376a8011bf4d77fbee9dd681a5f

Lopez wasn't injured, but why would the Orioles, who knew him and all the intangibles he brought, trade him when they were in the playoff race? It didn't make a lick of sense. Process? Lopez's track record of success was horrible before he went to the pen, and was a flash in the pan for just a few months, and the FO bet he was converted for good, and we all know how that turned out. All Lopez did was lose games for us, and he is still a liability wherever he has been. Horrible trades, and not just looking back. Homers wanted it to be a good trade. But it never was. Not then. Not looking back.

F-.

I didn’t like the López trade from the beginning but I had misplaced hope.  
 

all I’m saying is Mahle still did better than others traded at the deadline.  Montas was worse and probably who we would have traded for if not for Mahle.  I didn’t like trading Steer in the deal either.  But I see 3 different ways to grade this trade.  1.  How good was the deal at the time of the trade.  2.  How was this trade compared to other deadline deals? 3.  How did the players ultimately perform after being traded?  On 1.  It’s a B for me.  2. Is a C and 3. Is a D.  So I’m going to agree with your stance on the deal.  I think if you hated this deal you are inclined to be most likely grading on 3.  

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

Steer was considered a solid enough infielder, not a DH, and he's been acceptable in the infield by UZR/150. 

His innings are very limited at 2B and it is a -4.4. He has more innings at 3B and it is a -9.6. In the big picture I see 15 different career numbers across 5 positions (UZR, DRS, OOA).  His only positive number with a career UZR of 0.3 is at 1B where he also has -8 OOA.

I don’t want to argue the bar for acceptable or derail this thread by debating defensive metrics. Assuming Steer has shown to be an acceptable 1B or even 3B if you prefer,  I would do a similar trade this deadline.

On 7/2/2024 at 12:23 AM, old nurse said:

Hindsight is such a wonderful thing. Mahle and Dyson. How could you know they were or going to be injured.?  

Lopez. Mediocre career now having a lights out year. F for thinking about trading for him. F for having Cano throw more sliders than he should have. I can’t fault them for trading him but they shouldn’t have included Povich

So what did they lose by trading? 2 designated hitters,, 2 6th starters, a reliever that didn’t fir the Twins way and suspects. How can it be failing when you did not lose much?

Wasn't Povich the main piece in that trade? I think Cano was more of the throw-in, and yet he ended up having an All-Star season afterwards.

19 hours ago, bean5302 said:

I think you're giving Lopez a bit too much credit here. Mediocrity doesn't get you DFA'd like 17 times, haha.

That recent Lopez meltdown reminded me (almost) of the time in the 1970s when Pedro Borbon (then with the Reds) went ballistic, took the cap from an opposing player, and promptly took a bite out of it. Ah, they don't make players like that anymore!

The 2022 trade deadline was lower than a F.  Especially in hindsight!  There were questions about Mahle's health and talent prior to the trade itself.    Steer is AN ABOVE AVERAGE player and CES is going to be.   The Povich and Cano trade is looking worse.   We got literally nothing in return.   I still think these moves are termination worry.   But this franchise and many of its fans are OK with mediocrity.

2 hours ago, Doctor Wu said:

Wasn't Povich the main piece in that trade? I think Cano was more of the throw-in, and yet he ended up having an All-Star season afterwards.

Cano was probably a throw in as he did not do well in his time on the big league club. He appears not to use his slider as much and has a better outcome. Shame on the Twins for not recognizing that. Povich was likely the main piece in the trade. A potential major league starter for a reliever is not a good trade unless you think they are not going to make it as a mlb starter. There are things they can be wrong about. Future starters is not.  One of them.