How Good is Cleveland, Really?

Let’s hold off on anointing the angels just yet. They have 5 wins over Oakland, 3 over Texas, 3 over KC, and 3 over Baltimore. That’s 14 of their 22 wins over teams that are a combined 53-93–essentially the 2016 Twins. They have 6 wins against teams above .500, including 2 against Houston.

 

They have played 3 against both BOS and NYY, getting swept by the Red Sox 27-3 and the Yankees 17-5; both series were in Anaheim.

 

Trout and Ohtani are formidable to be sure, but there’s a lot to suggest the Angels are benefitting from a weak early schedule, and the Twins can certainly catch them thanks to 52 games remaining against the dregs of the central, as well as returns from important players.

True, the Angels haven't played the toughest schedule. But, what about the Mariners? They're also looking pretty good, and are a real contender for that second wildcard.

 

When it comes to Cleveland, they'll find their stride. A healthy Brantley (which is a huge question mark) to go along with Ramirez, Lindor, Encarnacion is a legit high-end 1-4 (not in that particular order). Kipnis, Gomes, and Alonso are nice secondary peices. They will start scoring runs.

 

When it comes to pitching, Kluber is one of the best. Corrasco is very good, and they'll get a healthy Salazar back. They still have Allen and Miller in the bullpen.

 

Remember last year? There was a window open, seemingly, when the Twins had an opportunity to catch the Indians. It last about 5 minutes before Cleveland went on one of the most prolific, dominating win-streaks in MLB history. They are a veteran team that knows how to win baseball games. I fully expect that they will hit the throttle at some point and leave the Twins in a cloud of dust.

 

You may be right, but accounting for the Mariners and Blue Jays as well, I just don't like the Central's chances of nabbing a WC slot.

 

And the more important thing is that, in order to have hopes of playing in the ALDS, the Twins probably need to win the division regardless. The thought of another play-in game in the Bronx sounds nightmarish.

 

I agree with both the article and with this comment--playing for a WC game against the loser of the Boston/NY scrum doesn't seem too palatable, although that AL East race could be exciting to watch if it goes to the wire, and those teams might have to expend a lot of late season energy...but then again, we have a long season to go, so I'm not ready to anoint anyone just yet.

 

But to the larger point of the article, is Cleveland really that good?  They just don't seem that fearsome on paper right now, particularly lineup wise.

The Twins could have a rotation of riches.

 

The Twins have people who will be free agents and NOT coming abck to Minnesota. Hopefully they play well enopugh to generate off-season interest. Hopefully some generate in-season interest.

 

The Twins do have replacement parts. Be nice if they get some exposure, but if you are competitive, can you afford to play? Right now, yes...they are showing that a 5th starter can shine. Too bad they haven';t elevated a temporary shortstop of the future to play 80% of the games for a short spell. Same with the outfield. Give the playing time to a LaMonte Wade, if nothing else. Quit having lovefests with people who MAY NOT be ehre next year, especially for short spurts.

 

The bullpen is a mess and could be musical chairs all season.

 

The Twins need to get some control of the K's and moving runners and getting clutch hits et al. I thought the offense would be much more consistent, better than it has been.

 

But we still have a lot of games to play.

 

But please, front office, take advantage of giving rookies time to shine. Garver should be catching anyone who will be in the rotation of the future, not Bobby. Please.

When Salazar comes back, Cleveland might run away.

 

Look at the ERA of their top 4 starters：

 

Bauer 2.53

Kluber 2.62

Clevinger 2.76

Carrasco 3.61

You may be right, but accounting for the Mariners and Blue Jays as well, I just don't like the Central's chances of nabbing a WC slot.

 

And the more important thing is that, in order to have hopes of playing in the ALDS, the Twins probably need to win the division regardless. The thought of another play-in game in the Bronx sounds nightmarish.

The Mariners might be even iffier than the Halos—17 of their 20 wins are against teams at or below .500 (they’ve won 5 of 7 against Cleveland). Their wins against teams with winning records is 1 of 2 against SF, 1 of 4 against Houston, and 1 of 2 against Toronto.

 

This isn’t to say the Twins will get a wild card spot for sure, I just think it’s way too early to have a Central-or-Bust mindset. And while I agree I want no part of a one game play-in in NY or Boston, even if we win the central, assuming a Yankee/Sox victory in the play-in game, we’re getting the Yankees, Sox, or Stros in the first round.

 

And if they aren't a clear playoff threat....do they start selling off some of their guys due for FA?

They're 2 seasons removed from a WS berth, 1 season removed from winning 100+ games, and the team is for the most part still intact. IMO Given their recent success and the outlook of the division, Cleveland would have to be truly awful from now until almost the deadline for them to even consider a sale.  

 

Well, do you see them resigning Cody Allen and Andrew Miller?

 

I'm not saying a sell-off is likely, but the guys coming up on free agency are the types you might be able to get a lot for at the deadline if you see yourself as out of serious contention.

I seriously doubt Miller is resigned.

 

I just don't see Cleveland being so far out of the race for the title in arguably the worst division in baseball that they're selling by mid-late July. It would be shocking to say the least. 

Generally teams with better pitching are more consistent, and play games closer to the vest. Teams built on offense are more streaky. And they didn't invent the phrase "good pitching beats good hitting" for no reason. Over the long haul I always go with pitching and defense. When the Twims are hitting like the last few games they will punish teams. But they continue you their recent history of being an all or nothing offense. When they get rolling everyone hits, but when it's a bleak day they really do not seem to have someone to pick them up. I know some of that is just basebal, but they seem to have perfected it.

I wouldn't exactly call anybody with a negative WAR, in this case Castro, a "key contributor".

 

I'm not sayin. Just sayin.

 

I agree with what most of the posters have stated.  Prior to the season I felt that the Angels or Mariners, and the Red Sox/Yankees runner-up were going to get the AL Wild Cards.

 

Cleveland's uneven early season does give the Twins some hope, but the Twins need to continue to play well and hope the Tribe does not figure it out.  Thus it is possible that the Twins can win the division, but not probable IMHO.

 

I hope I'm wrong.

From the post:

"Their offense has scuffled even with Jose Ramirez and Francisco Lindor hitting well. Jason Kipnis, who hasn't been a significantly above-average hitter since 2015, sports an OPS 90 points lower than Logan Morrison's"

 

If you're an Indians fan, this should scare the living daylights out of you

what would scare me if i was an indians fan is that the twins lost 11 of 12 and are still only one game behind the defending american league champs.

what would scare me if i was an indians fan is that the twins lost 11 of 12 and are still only one game behind the defending american league champs.

Unless the last year was all a dream, I think the Astros are the defending AL champions.

 

Unless the last year was all a dream, I think the Astros are the defending AL champions.

hmm. you make an interesting point. i'm old enough that i still think of the astros as an nl team ...

If I recall correctly, Stengel's actual quote is "Good pitching will always stop good hitting and vice versa."

I never knew Casey delved that deeply into the game? . Frankly I wasn't quoting him as I had no idea he said that, or any part of it. The observation is age old, and I for one would always prefer to be the team with the good pitchers.