Dump Gardenhire now.

April 30, 2013

I defended Gardy for years, and I think at one time he was a good manager for the Twins. I came to the conclusion last year that as the Twins turned the roster over in the next few years, they should eventually turn the manager position over to new blood as well, but I didn't care when that happened. Watching Gardenhire sit on his thumb and spin last night while another game was wasted led me to the conclusion that time is now. Right now. Get him out of the dugout. I don't want to watch another performance like last night, where Pelfrey has to waste a lead before the manager can be bothered to notice. That was beyond pathetic. Pelfrey has been pathetic. He managed to get through the fifth last inning, thanks to a lucky DP off a rocket to short. He should never have started the 6th, much less been allowed to face Cabrera, MUCH LESS to face Fielder. That loss is on Gardenhire. 100 percent. I'm tired of the same old, same old, and I gotta believe there are some players who were wondering the same thing last night. "Why is this game still in the hands of Doug Pelfrey?"

snepp · April 30, 2013

The drunken rambling thread is over this way....

April 30, 2013

While I'm on a roll...you won't use your only LHer in the bullpen other than your closer to face the most dangerous LH hitter in the Tiger lineup, with 2 on and 0 out. Oh no, can't do that. But then you'll bring him into the game ANYWAY, to face the less dangerous LH hitters, once you've p'd away the lead. And then you'll leave him in to start the next inning, meaning you probably won't be able to use him in a big spot against Fielder tomorrow, either, in case one comes up. Brilliant!

snepp · April 30, 2013

While I'm on a roll...you won't use your only LHer in the bullpen other than your closer to face the most dangerous LH hitter in the Tiger lineup, with 2 on and 0 out. Oh no, can't do that. But then you'll bring him into the game ANYWAY, to face the less dangerous LH hitters, once you've p'd away the lead.

I 'let' my dad hear that same rant on the phone earlier. He agreed.

Chief logic = my dad logic = me logic > Jeff Gray > Gardenhire logic

Shane Wahl · April 30, 2013

Hell, I have been drunken rambling about this myself, I just have typed very little of it. This amounts to talking to myself, but whatever.

I agree with you about this debacle tonight. What a dumbass move. Not only is it a loss, but it also messes with Pelfrey.

Shane Wahl · April 30, 2013

While I'm on a roll...you won't use your only LHer in the bullpen other than your closer to face the most dangerous LH hitter in the Tiger lineup, with 2 on and 0 out. Oh no, can't do that. But then you'll bring him into the game ANYWAY, to face the less dangerous LH hitters, once you've p'd away the lead. And then you'll leave him in to start the next inning, meaning you probably won't be able to use him in a big spot against Fielder tomorrow, either, in case one comes up. Brilliant!

I hadn't even read this before posting just now. You are spot on with this. Clearly they (a righty and a lefty) should have been ready early in the inning. ESPECIALLY since they both would be likely needed in the seventh ANYWAY!

snepp · April 30, 2013

Oh yeah, don't forget your blood pressure meds.

April 30, 2013

I 'let' my dad hear that same rant on the phone earlier. He agreed.

Chief logic = my dad logic = me logic > Jeff Gray > Gardenhire logic

Honestly, I'd like to say there's some high level logic in this, but I'd be lying to myself. A child could see this coming. I had to miss the last 4 innings due to a previous engagement. Watched on tape. 5th inning from Pelfrey scared me. He was extremely lucky that inning, and with the top of the order up, I'm thinking, there's no way he should start the 6th, but I bet he does. Sure enough. As soon as there was a runner on first and no out, Cabrera/Fielder due up, I'm thinking, there's absolutely no way a major league manager lets Pelfrey lose this lead, but I bet Gardenhire will. You could smell it coming a mile away. Sure enough, bingo bango bongo, there you go, chalk up an "L". So predictable, so inevitable, and so "Gardy." I've had enough.

Ben B · April 30, 2013

I'm all for dumping Gardenhire, but with the way the Twins run things you just KNOW that a Gardenhire firing will lead to a Scott Ullger hiring.

Top Gun · April 30, 2013

oh ya Gardy blew that one big time! he didn't admit it either, but the Twins are playin good winning baseball this season, you can't hardly fire him for that.

ashbury · April 30, 2013

I'm all for dumping Gardenhire, but with the way the Twins run things you just KNOW that a Gardenhire firing will lead to a Scott Ullger hiring.

You don't think it'd be Gene Glynn? Maybe I'm not getting the joke.

BC.Beneke · April 30, 2013

Gardenhire should never have been hired as the manager, and at the very least should have been fired after the 2006 season. The fact that he's stayed with his post season record, and his treatment of young ball players, and his inability to use his pitching staff effectively is baffeling! Beyond Gardenhire's failures are Terry Ryan's failures. It's just sadness all the way around. Been a long time Chief!

BC.Beneke · April 30, 2013

Dear God, not the Ulcering Ullger!!! He was a terrible hitting coach, a worthless 3rd base coach, resided as the bench coach to a 96 loss season, and is somehow still with us... he has shown the kind of inability to do his job properly already... can't they just make him the assistant GM?

Ben B · April 30, 2013

You don't think it'd be Gene Glynn? Maybe I'm not getting the joke.

Hmm, you could be right. I forgot about Glynn. I hope their plan is to gradually turn over the staff with the core of Glynn, Steinbach, Brunansky, and Cuellar. I just have a really bad feeling it would be Ullger, unless he gets canned too (which he should).

jimbo92107 · April 30, 2013

If the Twins did can Gardenhire, my guess is that the main replacement candidates would be Gene Glynn, Tom Brunanski and Terry Steinbach, in no particular order.

Meanwhile, I do have to wonder, what's the big deal here? Does sticking with Pelfrey a little too long constitute a firing offense, especially on a team with a pitching staff straight out of a hospital recovery room? Will a managerial change make that much difference on a team that would do well to win half its games this year?

For as long as I can remember, Twins managers have used the first half of the season to do little experiments. They tinker with various lineups, let guys play that are struggling, keep pitchers in a little too long, you name it. Sometimes it may seem irresponsible, but there's usually a reason for it. With Pelfrey, clearly Gardenhire wanted to see if he could squeeze one more inning out of him. Answer: Nope, not yet. But Pelfrey is getting better each time out, so I would expect to see Gardenhire try the same thing next time, if Pelfrey is pitching well. This is not just for the won/lost record, but for the pitcher's future. He has to know that his elbow can survive another inning, but the rest of his body needs to be stronger. Those are good things to know in late April.

Aaron Cross · April 30, 2013

Have people completely lost their minds? I'm all for starting over with a new manager and coaching staff. A fresh start. But to rip Gardy for leaving Pelphrey in too long? He gave up a bunt single and he popped up Cabrera. Pelphrey made a bad pitch to Fielder, but good grief, the goal for a starting pitcher should be ATLEAST 6 innings a start. You don't pull him after five good innings. You don't pull him after he puts two guys on. Pelphrey needs to make a pitch.

DaveW · April 30, 2013

lol Chief. I expect these threads from me after a few to many pints, but you? Classic:th_alc::th_alc:

Don't Feed the Greed Guy · April 30, 2013

Gardy blew it, and my frustration rose even more when I read Phil Miller's headline in the Strib: "One bad pitch spoils day for Pelfrey, Twins." How about one bad coaching decision? If Gardy didn't own his strategic failure, at least Miller didn't need to cover for him.

Managerial decisions do influence wins and losses, but the players play the game. Which reminds me of my favorite Gene Mauch quote: "The worst thing is the day you realize that you want to win more than the players do." Even so, managers have a place in directly influencing five to ten games a year. Last night was a prime example of a game where Gardenhire shaped the loss.

Even so, he won't get fired. At the end of the year, his contract will not be renewed. With the Latino players coming up in the Twins system, wouldn't it be a hoot if Ozzie Guillen managed the Twins at the Cell next season? Isn't going to happen, but it would be a quote fest!

Joe A. Preusser · April 30, 2013

Sorry, I can't agree with any of the posts on this thread. Pelfrey finished with 90 pitches, which means he went into the 6th inning with less than 80. I know he hasn't pitched well all year, but HE IS YOUR STARTING PITCHER. If you're going to punt on him before 80 pitches then why even let him start at all? Why not just let the bullpen handle this whole game? Hell, why not let the bullpen handle EVERY game? Fielder is a tough out, but it's absolutely not unrealistic to expect Pelfrey to get a flyball out or even a double play ball. Good managers make the best decisions they can with the information they have available. Now the Twins have more information that tells them that Pelfrey might not be able to pitch in the majors right now. Don't blame Gardy for the actual result, BLAME PELFREY. It is amazing how many people trot out their hindsight goggles and crush Gardy every time the opposing team hits a clutch homerun. Newsflash, every team in the majors will hit clutch homeruns at some point this year, including the Twins. Do we expect all those managers to have the clarvoyance to predict the outcome and go to the pen, especially if their starter has less than 80 pitches? Get real.

Thrylos · April 30, 2013

Don't blame Gardy for the actual result, BLAME PELFREY. It is amazing how many people trot out their hindsight goggles and crush Gardy every time the opposing team hits a clutch homerun. .

If Pelfrey can take himself out of the game because he demonstrated suckage in the previous 2 innings, then he deserves the blame.

It is not hindsight. He could not locate the ball, he was ineffective. A bad thing was about to happen and Gardy should had avoided it. Have Duensing and Swarzak warming up before the inning started and get him out after the first mishap. Before something bad happened. He got his 5 in to be the P or record for the W.

About as much hindsight as seeing someone skating on a lake in April with a blowtorch and feeling that there might be a happy ending to that situation...

bird · April 30, 2013

I love the idea of Ozzie Guillen as Gardy's replacement. I mean, who loves the Twins more than Ozzie?

snepp · April 30, 2013

Leaving him in there to face the toughest bat for a righty to handle, with runners on base (and struggling to boot), wasn't exactly a case of hindsight. There's no way Pelfrey comes out for the 7th regardless if he gets Fielder or not, so you lose nothing by removing him at that point.

Gernzy · April 30, 2013

I love how everyone is SO QUICK to play the blame game. "We lost a close game after a bad inning, who can I blame?" Seriously close losses happen.

Did any of us think we'd be at .500 right now? I don't think so. And where was all the Fire Gardy talk after we just split with the Rangers...strange I don't see it.

Mike Sixel · April 30, 2013

I don't know if I would fire him over this, but it's pretty clear that a lefty should have come in at that point. No way that Pelfrey should have faced Fielder. No good strategist would do that. I've often said Gardy stinks at strategy, but that he must be really good at managing the clubhouse (or something) because the teams have generally been good under him. Yes, that is largely talent driven, but he was part of that success for a long time. Personally, I would have let him go after last year.

But, now that he is here, I think they need to give him the year to show if he can work with young players or not.

cmathewson · April 30, 2013

I would like to see Pelfrey go down (if he accepts his option) and Gibson come up. Pelfrey can grind out five innings and keep us in the game. But he was clearly out of gas in the sixth. And I just don't think his arm is ready to give us the innings we need, regardless of whether you think he can improve in the innings he gives us (doubtful, imho). If he doesn't accept his option, DFA him.

Not all of this is on Gardy, though. The GM shares some of the blame for pushing Pelfrey.

I thought Gardy'd take him out after the Cabrera walk. The last pitch was a tell-tale sign of fatigue, flying open and throwing a 3-2 sinker that was caught behind Cabrera. Duensing was warmed up in the bullpen, but he stuck with his tired starter. He could not have given Fielder a better pitch to hit if he'd put it on a T.

The paper said one bad pitch. Nonsense. He threw about 10 bad pitches out of 80. The Tigers just missed 8 of them. Well, as Bert likes to say, "he left a ball up and Fielder did not miss it."

golfboy1 · April 30, 2013

He's not going to get fired but it was a horrible decision to leave Pelfrey in to face Fielder. Pelfrey has been struggling all year & was lucky to get thru 5 innings with only one run. Gardy should have pulled him after Cabrera walked. He did the same stupid move with Correia in the KC game.

Gardy's not going to get fired ..nor should he. I know they are doing better than expected but he has cost the Twins a "chance" to win two games that they had a very good chance to win.

Aaron Cross · April 30, 2013

If ya ain't gonna ever try to stretch him out, why even bother having him in the rotation? You can't ask the bullpen to pick up 4 innings every dam time Pelphrey pitches. Most baseball fans can only think short term. Gardy's thinking long term, and you might have to sacrifice a game here and there, but you gotta get innings from your starters or your bullpen's gonna be overworked.

cmathewson · April 30, 2013

I love the idea of Ozzie Guillen as Gardy's replacement. I mean, who loves the Twins more than Ozzie?

NOOOOO! Ozzie is an interesting character. But he is the worst manager on the planet. Why did the Twins beat the White Sox so often despite an obvious talent gap? Every night, Ozzie would do something the likes of which makes the Chief call for Gardy's head. Gardy outmanaged him every night, and it wasn't even close. Every time Ozzie pinch hit, Gardy would bring in a reliever to match it. It was like a chess game between Kasperov and Lew Ford.

Chackmate for me was the Thome debacle. No thanks. Anybody but Ozzie.

snepp · April 30, 2013

I meant to ask, but forgot. (warning, about to veer waaaaay off-topic) Where does "get real" rank in the list of point-proving accentuations?

Above or below 'Period.'?

How about 'book it'?

'So there'?

I would probably go with...

Period > Get real > Book it > That's that > So there

Am I missing any?

Mike Sixel · April 30, 2013

Aaron, I have no idea what you are trynig to say. You really think it is somehow good in the long run to make bad decisions in one game? That was his last batter if he gets him out. How does that stretch him out? And why can't you plan to have the bullpen go 4 innings every Pelfrety start? You absolutely could plan for that, if you understood strategy and tactics and planning. I think I disagreed with every conclusion you came to in that post.

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