Twins interested in Brad Hand?

21 hours ago, Brady said:

Only interested because he represents another LHP option out of the pen. I think Moran will be fine, he just needs a little more experience at the Major League level to really solidify himself. Thielbar is also solid, but at some point I'd start to be wary of regression given variance that is standard with relievers as well as age. But, Hand isn't immune to those same concerns.

All in all, I don't see the point of overpaying for an arm that is, at best, marginally better than what we have in place already.

I only like Hand if the FO thinks he's a viable closer committee member that would enable Duran to be used in multi-inning situations when necessary.  There are other viable LOOGYs out there if they're wanting another matchup bullpen arm.

57 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Gotta have some guys with options in the bullpen, or gotta cut guys you just signed and are paying. It's easier/faster to send guys down than to cut guys you just signed. Plus it gives you flexibility for upcoming matchups. People really underestimate the value of guys with options compared to ok veterans.

There's no reason they can't put the back-end bullpen pitchers with options in AAA to begin the season. The players without options will make the roster or the injured list. It is prudent to avoid prematurely bringing up a player who doesn't have to be added to the 40-man roster. Let them earn the spot with their minor league performance. I don't see anyone off the 40-man roster who deserves a spot more than Brad Hand. I'd rather see Hand pitch than Laweryson, Rozek, Funderburk or Sammons. Blayne Enlow should earn his spot again.

I wouldn't be opposed to signing Hand, but I much prefer Matt Moore or Will Smith.  I think Moran will be a solid BP piece and having 3 LH's in the pen isn't a bad idea.  

9 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Winder, Sands, Henriquez.....and others are on the 40 man already. To be clear, you want zero young guys not already in the pen in the pen? Zero?

On Opening Day, absolutely. Winder, Sands, Henriquez, Megill, Moran, even Alcala if he looks off. Some pitcher will be on the injured list within 2 weeks and someone else can come up. It's impossible to keep 13 pitchers healthy at the same time.

Just look at last April:

Before the season started - Cody Stashak injured, Jharel Cotton added.

4/12 - Alcala to the injured list, Dereck Rodriguez added to the roster

4/17 - Sonny Gray to the injured list

4/20 - Jhon Romero injured

4/30 - Bailey Ober injured

5/6 - Dylan Bundy injured

5/10 - Chris Paddack injured

5/11 - Danny Coulombe injured

5/21 - Winder injured

5/22 - Stashak injured

5/25 - Joe Ryan injured

5/28 - Coulombe injured

That's just April and May and they used the injured list for pitchers 11 times.

Let's avoid using quad-A players like Cotton, Coulombe, Minaya, Rodriguez and Smeltzer or bringing up rookies too soon like they did last year with Sands, Moran and Cano.

Better yet, look at some of the names in the top 20 for innings pitched for the 2022 Twins

6) Devin Smeltzer 70.1

9) Emilio Pagan 63

12) Trevor Megill 45.0

13) Tyler Duffey 44.0

15) Jharel Cotton 35.0

16) Cole Sands 30.2

17) Aaron Sanchez 28.2

18) Joe Smith 27.1

That's a whole lot of bleh. They gave innings to 36 pitchers and 2 position players last season. Brad Hand could be useful, even if it's just avoiding the 56 innings they gave Ian Hamilton, Austin Davis, Chi Chi Gonzalez, Derek Rodriguez, Juan Minaya, Tyler Thornburg, Nick Gordon, Jermaine Palacios and Yennier Cano.

31 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Why are we comparing him to guys not on the roster? 

I guess you could compare Brad Hand to the 50+ innings they're likely to give to guys like Laweryson, Rozek, Funderburk, Sammons, Enlow, de Leon, Coulombe, Locke St. John, Connor Sadzeck, Parker Bugg, Tyler Webb, Chad Donato, Oliver Ortega, Brock Stewart, Aaron Sanchez, Austin Schulfer, Patrick Murphy, Samuel Perez, Carlos Luna, Jose Vazquez, Joel Garcia or Matt Mullenbach.

871 pitchers were used in MLB in 2022. That's an average of 29 pitchers per team. Brad Hand is better than the 20th pitcher the Twins have under contract. He might be better than the 15th pitcher they have under contract.

27 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I literally listed the three guys he'd replace.....

I'm trying to tell you that Sands, Henriquez and Winder are still going to get PLENTY of innings in 2023 even if they add Brad Hand to the roster. He's not replacing any of them, he's temporarily (for a week or two) bumping them down one notch on the depth chart but they're still going to need 5-15 more pitchers beyond those that you mentioned. Teams don't use 13 pitchers a season, they use 25-30 of them. They should try to stash as many decent pitchers in AAA as possible because they will end up using all of them.

They have 22 pitchers on the 40-man roster. Two of them are injured and unavailable for months. Balazovic and Headrick are not ready. 18 pitchers is probably not enough to make it until June. Last season it wasn't enough to make it until mid-May.

Fulmer, Chafin, others are signing and Hand, Moore, Will Smith, and Zach Britton are still available. They seem like fair rolls of the die, but then one must slide a player off the 40 person roster and the guys named cannot be sent down. The Twins have some arms they want to see and the next month will tell if Falvey and the eyes on the pitching staff seek to add a player. A trade seems more likely. 

1 minute ago, tony&rodney said:

one must slide a player off the 40 person roster and the guys named cannot be sent down

Paddack and Canterino can move off the 40 man roster immediately. Sands, Henriquez, Alcala, Megill, Jax, Moran and Winder ALL have options.

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

I'm a pretty big Moran believer.

Me too. I want to see him pitch 70 innings this year for the Twins and zero in the minors. 

Give the local boy a chance! Maybe "coming home" will give him that extra oomph he may have been missing the last year or two! #AlwaysLookOnTheBrightSideOfLife

23 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I strongly disagree. I think Brad Hand is a liability, not an asset. Strikeouts are poor. Walks are poor. Those are the two biggest things to look for in a reliever and both are on a declining trend. He's also a groundball pitcher in a year where the shift has been banned. He looks more likely to be a 2022 Joe Smith. These kinds of pitchers shouldn't get MLB deals, but they do because people remember them from three years ago.

You'll almost certainly find better pitchers in the stable of untested and unknown arms already in the system. And the great thing about those pitchers is that you can cycle through them until you get it right. You can't cycle through a vet on a MLB contract. The team will hold on to him trying to squeeze equity from him while the losses pile up.

It doesn't really matter if he gets a minor league contract or a major league contract. There's an open spot on the roster.

I listed the "stable" of untested and unknown arms. Which one of those arms do you think is better? Funderburk? Also, if you want to add a rookie to the roster and then cut him you have to expose him to waivers. That's a good way to lose a lot of talent simply because they weren't ready yet. 

The Twins didn't hold onto Joe Smith after he showed how bad he was even though they were using equally bad players like Aaron Sanchez, Jharel Cotton and Chi Chi Gonzalez.

I ultimately don't care if it's Brad Hand or some other veteran reliever. There are a handful of unsigned vets better than that "stable" of untested and unproven arms. Add a new wrinkle today that Falvey wants Sands and Winder working as starting pitchers in the minors and the bullpen looks really, really thin. 

Duran, Lopez, Jax, Thielbar, Pagan, Alcala, Megill, Moran, Henriquez. That's only 9 guys for 8 spots and no depth whatsoever on the 40 man roster. They will use at least 15 pitchers in relief this year. I hope that "stable" produces 6 more pitchers better than Brad Hand.

14 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Guys will get waived during the spring and having open 40-man spots to take a shot at someone much younger than Hand is a better use of those spots, in my opinion.

If someone comes along who they like better they can cut the veteran and add the guy on waivers. 

If he is willing to sign minor league offer at this point, I would bring him in, but I would not offer him full major league contract.  He used to be one of the best, but has had some rough years.  As the article points out, even his numbers last year looked good, but may have been more smoke and mirror kind of thing.  

The fact AAA is in MN where he is from this could lead to him willing to make that agreement.  I am sure he will hold out hoping for major league contract as teams starting dealing with injuries or poor spring trainings. 

12 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

No depth? Go Winder, Varland, SWR, Sands, Headrick, Stashak, Coulombe, Balazovic, Funderburk, Bentley, Cabezas, Gross, Enlow, Legumina, Lawyerson, Sammons, Schuffler, Scherff. Ober or which ever other starter is left out of the rotation.

I think you're confused about the process, you don't have to "cut" any of these guys, if they mess up you can send them back to St. Paul. Even after one outing. ESPECIALLY  after one outing. You really think they'll pull the plug on Brad Hand after a few bad outings? They won't. They won't pull the plug on him after five bad outings. Maybe not even 10. You seriously think Hand will be better than ALL of those guys listed? It never works that way. The guy has lost the ability to miss bats and he's lost the ability to avoid walks. Who wants a smoke and mirrors guy in the pen? Who wants a guy who's making the infielders get all of his outs for him when the game is on the line? With no shift allowed?

People need to stop thinking veterans are better than unknown rookies. If they were, they probably would still have jobs with their current clubs, and they certainly wouldn't still be free agents when Spring Training opens. And you know what, if the rookies aren't cutting it, they can get a reliever 5x better than Hand by dealing a guy like Legumina. Like they did last year when they traded Gipson-Long for Michael Fulmer.

Falvey stated he wants Ober, Winder, Varland, SWR, Sands and Balazovic stretched out and starting. That means they're not options for the bullpen. I mean, they could be but that would mean they're not going to develop as a starter and they need to replace 3 starters this offseason.

Stashak and Legumina are gone.

Headrick (4.81 ERA), Laweryson (1.02 ERA), Funderburk (2.94 ERA), Bentley (3.79 ERA), Cabezas (3.13 ERA), Gross (4.03 ERA), Enlow (4.40 ERA), Sammons (5.76 ERA), Scherrf (5.27 ERA) - none of them have pitched above Double-A and most of them kinda sucked at Double-A. I'm not big on giving scholarships to minor leaguers who haven't proven themselves at AAA. Austin Schulfer (0.39 ERA in AA, 5.23 ERA in AAA) is a good example of why that's a bad idea. 

So you're left with Danny Coulombe. If the Twins like him better than Hand, that's fine (I don't). Oliver Ortega is a guy they grabbed and waived as a AAA stash. They still need to go get one (or more) of the other veteran relievers on the market because their bullpen is 3 pitchers deep off the 26 player roster.

And I think you're actually confused about the process. They have 2 spots open on the 40 man roster once they put Paddack and Canterino on the 60 day injured list. They have a unique opportunity now because there are decent veteran pitchers available and they have an open roster spot. This opportunity goes away before the season begins.

If they add one of those Double-A guys they can option him if he sucks, but then then he's on the 40 man and they can't remove him without allowing the league to grab a young pitcher for free. If they remove Enlow again he can elect free agency. You don't add pitchers with a future to the 40 man roster until they're ready to contribute or you're forced to because they are at risk of being taken in the Rule 5 draft. It's better to cycle through veterans.