Stanton!?

[kab21]

I would trade Sano for Fernandez (maybe). More likely I would be willing trade Rosario, Pinto, and Adam Walker for Fernandez. I think that could get him.

 

You probably need to include Duensing and Casilla.

[cmb0252]

I understand why people are talking about Stanton but why are people talking about Fernandez? Because he is a pitcher? The Marlins are not trading Fernandez. They have no financial reason or organizational reason to trade him. If you want to talk about trading for a pitcher Price would be the guy. At least there are rumors about him moving.

[Oxtung]

I understand why people are talking about Stanton but why are people talking about Fernandez? Because he is a pitcher? The Marlins are not trading Fernandez. They have no financial reason or organizational reason to trade him. If you want to talk about trading for a pitcher Price would be the guy. At least there are rumors about him moving.

 

Everybody is available for the right price. However, I made an assumption that the Marlins prospects were at A ball similar to the Astros and wouldn't be competing for several years and might be willing to trade him for a haul of prospects that line up better with their own. That isn't true. The Marlins are actually closer to contention than we probably are since most of their top talent is at AA this year. So you're probably right that there is little chance the Marlins would move Fernandez. That said, I would be willing to part with significantly more for Fernandez than I would for Price.

[kab21]

Everybody is available for the right price. However, I made an assumption that the Marlins prospects were at A ball similar to the Astros and wouldn't be competing for several years and might be willing to trade him for a haul of prospects that line up better with their own. That isn't true. The Marlins are actually closer to contention than we probably are since most of their top talent is at AA this year. So you're probably right that there is little chance the Marlins would move Fernandez. That said, I would be willing to part with significantly more for Fernandez than I would for Price.

 

Aren't a majority of the Twins prospects in A ball?

 

If the Twins went the Stanton route then they would have to follow this move up with 2-3 other blockbusters. For example trade half the farm for Stanton, sign Cano (only elite player available), sign JJohnson (hope for the best) and trade for another solid pitcher. Even at this point the team is still full of holes.

 

For the Red Sox trading for stanton makes a lot of sense.

[howeda7]

Does Stanton have 3 years before FA or 4? I assume only 3, which means we'd be getting the arbitration years. Trading 6 years of Sano for 3 relatively expensive years of Stanton is iffy. With what we'd have to add to it, it's probably not worth it.

[jokin]

Does Stanton have 3 years before FA or 4? I assume only 3, which means we'd be getting the arbitration years. Trading 6 years of Sano for 3 relatively expensive years of Stanton is iffy. With what we'd have to add to it, it's probably not worth it.

 

3 years of Arb. They definitely should not trade Sano or Buxton for Stanton, but any other combination should be on the table. These posters on here saying the timing isn't right are wrong, IMO. You never have talent acquisition opportunities all fall right into place strictly according to your own individual timetable. Staggering the building process over several years is more the norm, just because the availability timing is so problematic. Stanton is a very unique situation- it's almost unheard of to have such a young, unreached high ceiling potential guy to be available, and though he's a 4-year veteran, he's really still so young, not much older than the prospects we're counting on to hit the ground running over the next 2-3 years Besides, locking up Stanton for 8 years now as a foundation piece for the next wave, would help convince future potential FA acquisition targets and their agents that the Twins are serious about being competitive sooner, not later.

 

There is no dollar issue, already for next year, nearly $25M is coming off the books with Carroll, Blackie, Butera, Wood and Morneau coming off for sure, and maybe even more gone by trade before 2014 starts. That final number alone, whatever it turns out to be, could very well cover all of Stanton's salary in his 3 Arb years.

[jokin]

Aren't a majority of the Twins prospects in A ball?

 

If the Twins went the Stanton route then they would have to follow this move up with 2-3 other blockbusters. For example trade half the farm for Stanton, sign Cano (only elite player available), sign JJohnson (hope for the best) and trade for another solid pitcher. Even at this point the team is still full of holes.

 

For the Red Sox trading for stanton makes a lot of sense.

 

Too pessimistic a take for my taste. Consider the players below, added to your scenario above, and watch most of the holes get filled up right quick:

 

Sano (3B), Rosario (LF in your Cano scenario), Pinto ©, Hicks (CF), Santana (SS) are all above A ball- with Arcia (DH) looking like he's finally here to stay. That's 2/3rds of your potential starting lineup right there, that are basically knocking on the door- Buxton is close behind and could easily pass all of them sometime in 2014 (Parmelee, Escobar, Romero and Beresford may yet prove serviceable guys on the ML club, as well). With Stanton in RF, Cano at 2B and Mauer platooning at 1B and PT at C, you are looking at a pretty imposing potential everyday line-up.

 

Obviously, some of the above would likely have to be part of a Stanton trade, but there still wouldn't be nearly as many holes as one might think.

 

In upper level minors pitching, we have Meyer, May, Tonkin, Ibarra, Baxendale, Worley, Diamond, Achter, among others, that's 8 guys for sure who, at the very least, have a good chance to be significant long-term contributors to the major league staff. Meanwhile, the guys who become expendable from the above position player line-up shake-up become available to trade for even more immediately available pitching.

 

And then, in another two years, the wave of players you touted who are currently at A ball start knocking on the door.

[ThePuck]

Trading 6 years of Sano for 3 relatively expensive years of Stanton is iffy. With what we'd have to add to it, it's probably not worth it.

 

Are we just going to assume if we got Stanton we wouldn't sign him to a long term deal? If so, why is that? Why do we as fans need to worry about creating the lowest paid team possible?

 

Sano is a stud prospect, but he's still just a prospect. We don't know for sure what he'll do in the majors. Even if he becomes a stud, we could wait years for it to click. We know what Stanton can do and there's no reason, at all, to just figure we'd let him go when he became a FA ,or that we'd have to, with all the money available.

[drjim]

3 years of Arb. They definitely should not trade Sano or Buxton for Stanton, but any other combination should be on the table. These posters on here saying the timing isn't right are wrong, IMO. You never have talent acquisition opportunities all fall right into place strictly according to your own individual OKAYED. Staggering the building process over several years is more the norm, just because the availability timing is so problematic. Stanton is a very unique situation- it's almost unheard of to have such a young, unreached high ceiling potential guy to be available, and though he's a 4-year veteran, he's really still so young, not much older than the prospects we're counting on to hit the ground running over the next 2-3 years Besides, locking up Stanton for 8 years now as a foundation piece for the next wave, would help convince future potential FA acquisition targets and their agents that the Twins are serious about being competitive sooner, not later.

 

There is no dollar issue, already for next year, nearly $25M is coming off the books with Carroll, Blackie, Butera, Wood and Morneau coming off for sure, and maybe even more gone by trade before 2014 starts. That final number alone, whatever it turns out to be, could very well cover all of Stanton's salary in his 3 Arb years.

 

If they don't include Sano or Buxton they don't get Stanton. No chance.

[Oxtung]

Aren't a majority of the Twins prospects in A ball?

 

If the Twins went the Stanton route then they would have to follow this move up with 2-3 other blockbusters. For example trade half the farm for Stanton, sign Cano (only elite player available), sign JJohnson (hope for the best) and trade for another solid pitcher. Even at this point the team is still full of holes.

 

For the Red Sox trading for stanton makes a lot of sense.

 

I was speaking about Fernandez in my post not Stanton who Miami might trade because he will become expensive very shortly.

 

As others have already pointed out the Twins have a nice balance in their minor leagues right now. We have 2 players that debuted last season. 3 more this season. We have another 4 or 5 at AAA/AA and even more behind that at A ball and rookie leagues. So no, they're not all at A-ball.

 

I still don't think I'd trade for Stanton though. The Twins big holes look to be SS, 3B, Catcher and Front Line starting pitching. Corner OF is our deepest position.

[DaveW]

I wouldn't give up either of Sano or Buxton for Stanton.

 

If this were 3 years ago and the Twins were a playoff team already...sure. But no way would I do that now. There is zero reason why Sano can't be every bit the hitter Stanton is, while playing a premium position.

[ThePuck]

I wouldn't give up either of Sano or Buxton for Stanton.

 

If this were 3 years ago and the Twins were a playoff team already...sure. But no way would I do that now. There is zero reason why Sano can't be every bit the hitter Stanton is, while playing a premium position.

 

Third Base isn't really a premium position. Considering how difficult it has been for us to find a permanent guy there it might seem like one to us, but it's not really. And we hope that Sano can be as good as Stanton, but he's an unknown quantity at the MLB level. Stanton isn't. He's the real deal offensively and defensively. There's also no guarantee Sano sticks at 3B.

[Mike Sixel]

The difference, Dave, is taht Stanton has already proved it at the MLB level, and Sano is in AA......so there is real risk there.

 

That said, I expect Sano to be very, very good.

[SpitefulRabbit617]

I'd rather take on josh johnson than waste prospects for stanton. Other teams need him more than us

[Badsmerf]

There is a decent chance both Sano and Buxton end up better than Stanton. It is pretty easy to see Buxton being better considering he play a premium defensive position at a very high level along with a bat that is nothing to sneeze at. Sano might have more power and plays 3b. If Sano qualified for stat leaders (getting close) he would be 2nd in the EL in OPS with .960 and is killing it right now.

 

If we were talking about the next Verlander here it would be a different argument.

[ThePuck]

There is a decent chance both Sano and Buxton end up better than Stanton.

 

How do you come close to making that statement? We haven't seen either at the MLB level and Stanton is a stud who isn't even 24 yet. Prospects are just that...prospects. The more I read these posts, the more I think that a lot of people just don't know what kind of special player Stanton is.

[drjim]

Third Base isn't really a premium position. Considering how difficult it has been for us to find a permanent guy there it might seem like one to us, but it's not really. And we hope that Sano can be as good as Stanton, but he's an unknown quantity at the MLB level. Stanton isn't. He's the real deal offensively and defensively. There's also no guarantee Sano sticks at 3B.

 

What are you basing this on. Among other things it is the least represented position in the hall of fame. Very hard skillset to find.

[DaveW]

What are you basing this on. Among other things it is the least represented position in the hall of fame. Very hard skillset to find.

Yeah, exactly.

He argues against 3B being premium, yet then tells us that Stanton is the real deal defensively......in RF.

[Badsmerf]

How do you come close to making that statement? We haven't seen either at the MLB level and Stanton is a stud who isn't even 24 yet. Prospects are just that...prospects. The more I read these posts, the more I think that a lot of people just don't know what kind of special player Stanton is.

 

The fact that Buxton and Sano are consensus top 5 prospects in baseball that play more important and harder to field positions. If Sano played for the Marlins and not the Twins, he would be in the MLB right now too. Shoot, Buxton might even be up already if he played for the Marlins lol.

 

Just because these two aren't in the MLB yet doesn't mean they are automatically inferior. I realize that Stanton has already excelled at this level. Buxton and Sano are unknown quantities right now, but I wouldn't trade either for anything other than an Ace pitcher right now.

[ThePuck]

What are you basing this on. Among other things it is the least represented position in the hall of fame. Very hard skillset to find.

 

Corner spots aren't considered premium spots. Up the middle spots are. How many times do we see shortstops have to move to 3B because they just don't have it anymore or never did...or how we a team go ahead and throw Cabrera back there or whatever. It's often a fall back spot...a spot where defense can be sacrificed as long as there's a heavy bat manning it. It's not a defensive premium position, just like 1B isn't, though some great defenders have manned both

 

As far as it being the least represnted in the HOF, nto sure how that's an argument.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I don't care how good a player is, the Twins shouldn't be looking to trade for an outfielder right now.

 

A starting pitcher, definitely. A shortstop, absolutely. A corner outfielder? No way.

[ThePuck]

The fact that Buxton and Sano are consensus top 5 prospects in baseball that play more important and harder to field positions. If Sano played for the Marlins and not the Twins, he would be in the MLB right now too. Shoot, Buxton might even be up already if he played for the Marlins lol.

 

Just because these two aren't in the MLB yet doesn't mean they are automatically inferior. I realize that Stanton has already excelled at this level. Buxton and Sano are unknown quantities right now, but I wouldn't trade either for anything other than an Ace pitcher right now.

 

and they are still just prospects...top prospects fail all the time...or become just average players. Stanton has already shown it on offense and defense. And I didn't say they were automatically inferior, I said that coming out and saying there's a decent chance BOTH of them are better than Stanton is a huge leap to make considering neither has reached the Bigs and considering hwo good Stanton is already.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Corner spots aren't considered premium spots. Up the middle spots are. How many times do we see shortstops have to move to 3B because they just don't have it anymore or never did...or how we a team go ahead and throw Cabrera back there or whatever. It's often a fall back spot...a spot where defense can be sacrificed as long as there's a heavy bat manning it. It's not a defensive premium position, just like 1B isn't, though some great defenders have manned both

 

As far as it being the least represnted in the HOF, nto sure how that's an argument.

 

It's a fallback spot which is why it's so under-represented in the HoF. Third is often populated by no-hit shortstops and no-field first basemen. If you can find a guy to adequately man third and hit like a first baseman, you have a very rare commodity on your hands and that guy is going to be more valuable than the equivalent corner outfielder.

 

Third base isn't a "premium spot" but it's still more valuable than a corner outfield spot, particularly with a pitching staff that doesn't miss bats and seems content with killing as many worms as possible.

[ThePuck]

Yeah, exactly.

He argues against 3B being premium, yet then tells us that Stanton is the real deal defensively......in RF.

 

But I didn't say RF was a premium position, did I? Nope, no I didn't. But he is an excellent defender.

[ThePuck]

It's a fallback spot which is why it's so under-represented in the HoF. Third is often populated by no-hit shortstops and no-field first basemen. If you can find a guy to adequately man third and hit like a first baseman, you have a very rare commodity on your hands and that guy is going to be more valuable than the equivalent corner outfielder.

 

Third base isn't a "premium spot" but it's still more valuable than a corner outfield spot, particularly with a pitching staff that doesn't miss bats and seems content with killing as many worms as possible.

 

We don't know if Sano will even stick at 3B....we don't know that Sano will be a stud...and if he becomes a stud, we don't know how long that will take. Stanton is already there and is still very young to help us for the next 10 years.

 

There's no way Ryan would do this trade...and I agree I'd rather trade for pitching...but this thread is about trading for Stanton. I would give up Sano for Stanton in a heartbeat.

[Brock Beauchamp]

We don't know if Sano will even stick at 3B....we don't know that Sano will be a stud...and if he becomes a stud, we don't know how long that will take. Stanton is already there and is still very young to help us for the next 10 years.

 

There's no way Ryan would do this trade...and I agree I'd rather trade for pitching...but this thread is about trading for Stanton. I would give up Sano for Stanton in a heartbeat.

 

Eh, I wouldn't... But I'd strongly consider a Hicks + Prospect package.

 

If acquiring an outfielder, I'd limit the prospects to outfielders (at least as the primary piece). Stanton is mighty impressive but let's not ignore that he hasn't looked nearly as good this season. If he was posting another 140 OPS+ season and would agree to an extension as part of the trade package, I might even give up Buxton.

 

But not Sano, Rosario, or a pitcher. The Twins badly need those players going forward. Sano isn't a given to stick at third but considering the scouting reports surrounding him in the past 12 months, I think it's pretty likely that he spends a good chunk of his pre-arb and arb seasons at the position.

[ThePuck]

Eh, I wouldn't... But I'd strongly consider a Hicks + Prospect package.

 

If acquiring an outfielder, I'd limit the prospects to outfielders (at least as the primary piece). Stanton is mighty impressive but let's not ignore that he hasn't looked nearly as good this season. If he was posting another 140 OPS+ season and would agree to an extension as part of the trade package, I might even give up Buxton.

 

But not Sano, Rosario, or a pitcher. The Twins badly need those players going forward.

 

He's had injuries this year...I'm sure that's part of the issue...and one wonders how much he is affected by pitchers not needing to give him anything since he's the only threat on the team. If I was a manager, I'd tell my pitchers to never give him anything good to hit.

[Cap'n Piranha]

If the Twins are really going to go after a big name, I would rather see them make a buy-low play for Dylan Bundy. You'll have him back at the end of next year from TJ, and he can then pair with Meyer in 2015, right about the time Sano and Buxton are starting to establish themselves. Would a Walker/Harrison/Rosario/Pinto--Baltimore chooses which 2/3 they want be enough?

[Brock Beauchamp]

He's had injuries this year...I'm sure that's part of the issue...and one wonders how much he is affected by pitchers not needing to give him anything since he's the only threat on the team. If I was a manager, I'd tell my pitchers to never give him anything good to hit.

 

That's true. There's absolutely no reason to do anything other than walk Stanton in 95% of his ABs.

[diehardtwinsfan]

If the Twins are really going to go after a big name' date=' I would rather see them make a buy-low play for Dylan Bundy. You'll have him back at the end of next year from TJ, and he can then pair with Meyer in 2015, right about the time Sano and Buxton are starting to establish themselves. Would a Walker/Harrison/Rosario/Pinto--Baltimore chooses which 2/3 they want be enough?[/quote']

 

I doubt Bundy is available, and while they'd want Rosario, I doubt the rest would be what you needed to get him.

 

That and how sold are you of Dozier at 2nd? That's who ends up being the 2B of the future if Rosario is traded. I'm liking Dozier more and more as he continues to show that this improvement is for real, but I think it's a bit premature to start dangling Rosario. Also, from a need standpoint, I think you leave Pinto off.