Bailey Ober and Joe Ryan are Intertwined for the 2027 Twins

[soyouresayingtheresachance]

Our pitching staff needs new additions to raise the ceiling. Both the Starters and BP underperformed last season. Whether we trade Ryan or not, we need to bring in a front end starter. My choice is Michael King. 

Teams like the Brewers and Rays make a habit of trading expiring contracts for a haul. Maybe thats the direction we should take with Ryan? He would obviously help this season, but unless an extension is signed, it may be best to move him. 

Moving Ryan doesnt necessarily mean keeping Ober, either.

I'd like to see a rotation led by Michael King,  followed by Taj Bradley, and Connor Prielipp. That leaves 2 open spots for a list of folks like Joe Ryan, Bailey Ober, Dean Kremer, and Pablo Lopez. What if Pablo isn't ready? So if you Trade Ryan and it turns out Pablo isnt ready, do we go with Ober and Kremer until Pablo is ready? Then what happens when Pablo is ready? Neither Ober or Kremer have options. Do you really send down Prielipp if hes pitching well? This is still an issue if Pablo is ready to start the season. 

We dont have enough arms with options remaining. Zebby and possibly Paredes? 

Its a huge decision to trade 1 of them. However, if Ryan is traded, it almost makes more sense to trade Ober, too. Get some AAA starting depth. 

I know what I would do, but its probably not what the team will do. 

[MeleMouth]

47 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

As for the high-end talent, the Twins do have to identify some for sure. But that's where finding ONE top end free agent, and getting just ONE of the prospects to become a star will fix the issue. Both the Brewers and Rays basically just had two star hitters. The bats of Jeffers, Keaschall, Lee, Larnach, Buxton, Bell and Clemens produced just as well if not better than 90% of the rest of the Milwaukee and Tampa lineups. 

Turang/Chourio/Contreras/Mitchell/Bauers >> Buxton/Keaschall/Lee/Clemens/Jeffers, and that's just hitting, before you account for defense or the complementary players.

Probably the same for Caminero/Aranda/Mesa Jr./Diaz/DeLuca, and other players, such as #2 catcher Fortes, are way better than their Twins counterparts.

Other than first-half Buxton, the Twins currently have nobody anywhere near on offense to full-season Chourio, Turang, Caminero, or Bauers.  

[nicksaviking]

5 minutes ago, MeleMouth said:

Turang/Chourio/Contreras/Mitchell/Bauers >> Buxton/Keaschall/Lee/Clemens/Jeffers, and that's just hitting, before you account for defense or the complementary players.

Probably the same for Caminero/Aranda/Mesa Jr./Diaz/DeLuca, and other players, such as #2 catcher Fortes, are way better than their Twins counterparts.

Other than first-half Buxton, the Twins currently have nobody anywhere near on offense to full-season Chourio, Turang, Caminero, or Bauers.  

The Twins do need to find their Caminero or Chourio, but the team OPS was right there with Tampa. It is the 'complementary' players that I am railing against. Because the Twins didn't have complementary players, they had black holes that were regularly inserted into the starting lineup for long stretches. Not only couldn't they hit, but most of them weren't even good fits for the roster.

[GNess]

5 hours ago, Cris E said:

You want to dump three of your healthy 2026 starters to avoid not having enough starters on hand for 2028.  Say that out loud and think about how it sounds. 

Now what would that look like exactly? Be specific: names, estimated value required to get and arrival times on the MLB roster, etc. I think it's far more difficult than you realize.  Really go do this now.

Because now I want you to take that list (you didn't make the list, did you?) and compare it to the young pitchers who appeared for the Twins in the past two years: Prielipp, Abel, Mathews, Morris, Adams, Festa, Rojas, Raya, and Quick and Gallagher are at AAA waiting to come in after them.  Who were you going to pick up that's got a better pedigree than Abel? What young starter are you going to acquire that did better than Mathews' 10 home starts (2.57 ERA, only a hotel routine away from Cy Young votes. )  They just went and got a few of these guys last year, so where's the development and patience to build them up? C'mon, posts like this are just noise and really can't work once you start thinking about them. 

 

No sir. I don't want to dump three quality starters - I suggested if any are moved as part of a deal the Twins would be wise to seek a near ready prospect as part of the return. This is because I don't see as much potential in the current crop of young pitchers that you apparently do. As for my opinion just being noise - sorry to present a view that is not as well thought out as your view.

[Major League Ready]

6 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Based on the words from Tom Pohlad. They are going to go for it. 

Myself... I can see the need to acquire additional assets and delaying a run as you suggest but... 

I can see a path but only if they do what I want them to do. LOL

In my opinion of course.

Last off-season was different then this off-season for three reasons.

1. The bullpen needed a complete rebuild from the ground up. A bullpen can't be rebuilt from this extreme in a single off-season. It needed to built the way they did it. Through frantic audition and finding arms like Gomez and Morris and Nance.  

2. They didn't have enough position player talent especially in the infield. It is just plain irresponsible to go with a somewhat injury prone and struggling Lee at SS, A very injury prone and struggling Lewis at 3B and a sophomore slump candidate at Keaschall at 2B and Clemens platooning at 1B and go for it... especially in consideration of point #1. They needed a 1B at the very least and they also needed infield insurance especially at SS and 3B. They made no attempt at fixing this and the entire infield needed to be restructured to the point that nobody was standing in the original spot they were being counted on at. 

3. In consideration of point #1 and #2. Joe Ryan and Ryan Jeffers were at peak value and needed to be cashed in at this time. Going for it was a very very very questionable decision. 

Was I right... Yes and no. The offense in total surprised me. It did better than I thought it would but the infield was exactly what I was concerned about at every single position. The starting pitching surprised me because it didn't do as well as I thought it would even if they would have traded Joe Ryan. The bullpen performed exactly how I thought it would. The team was healthier than normal but injuries are always a moment away. 

So what's different this year. I can see a path. There is enough depth and by depth I mean talent in house with the influx of young ready or not talented players. We have optoins, we have players in place to replace. We just need to add a little more to that depth and it's in the same spots that we needed to address last year. 1B and infielder with SS capability. The comments ny Tom Pohlad about the roster not being good enough for 162 games has me heartened that maybe the front office learned from rather stunning mistakes last year and will therefore take it more seriously this time. 

1. The Bullpen still isn't there yet but it made progress so it won't be a ground zero start up like last year. A couple of decent trades and a couple of unexpected finds and the bullpen could be at least average if not more. 

2. We have 7 outfielders in place that have talent. We can easily staff 5 outfielders with talent we really don't have to do a thing other than don't platoon Jenkins or Emma. The infield still has the same needs as last year. If they could sign a Bauers to play 1B and trade for someone like Casey Schmitt... we could be 6 deep and have cover for any injuries or Royce Lewis and Matt Wallner type failures in 2027. And once again... I like the depth of the starting staff but I'd like them to add one more. I don't care about catcher. It's Caratini and someone else bat them ninth. I do not want a DH unless it's a monster. Josh Bell types are decent but not a monster. Use the DH to supply AB's to the depth that I am asking for.  

3. Joe Ryan is no longer at peak value. He still has some value but getting a couple of decent prospects from him isn't happening anymore so you might as well keep him. Ryan Jeffers is gone but with the kids... we might be able to trade Ober, Kremer and Larnach along with other minor league players to acquire a Casey Schmitt and add to the bullpen with some younger arms with talent. 

Anyway... I can see a path.

I will agree with you 100% if they are just going to Nathanial Lowe or Randal Grichuk the off-season away. If that's the case... just sell everything not nailed down let's look at 2028. 

 

Completely agree.  The team was in a very different place last year.  I wrote a number of times that they were very well positioned to shake up the roster and build a contender in much less time than it normally takes.  What could have been had they stayed on a rebuild path and made some wise decisions.  

They are part way down that path today.  Keaschall looks like a building block and a few rookies gave us some hope they are part of the next core.  The difference for me is that they have this cluster of starters that will be free agents next year.  I have been saying for a couple years that they needed to address that situation because losing 3 SPs to free agency in one year is bad asset management.  Now it's even worse with Kremer.  They needed to trade either Pablo or Ryan for a SP that could replace them.

[Riverbrian]

2 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

Completely agree.  The team was in a very different place last year.  I wrote a number of times that they were very well positioned to shake up the roster and build a contender in much less time than it normally takes.  What could have been had they stayed on a rebuild path and made some wise decisions.  

They are part way down that path today.  Keaschall looks like a building block and a few rookies gave us some hope they are part of the next core.  The difference for me is that they have this cluster of starters that will be free agents next year.  I have been saying for a couple years that they needed to address that situation because losing 3 SPs to free agency in one year is bad asset management.  Now it's even worse with Kremer.  They needed to trade either Pablo or Ryan for a SP that could replace them.

People think rebuilds take a long time. They really don't. That was years ago when teams would disapear for awhile. 

However. Rebuilds do take a long time if you don't actually get started on it. 

To finish... you have to actually start. For example my car took a week to fix. The main problem was that it took me 6 days to get it to the shop.  

Last year was just a time suck. They could have been attacking 2028 fully loaded.

You and I saw that wall coming. It's almost like they didn't see it or care.

To quote Fastball. "Where were they going without ever knowing the way". 

[darin617]

Trade Ryan if they get a good offer for him. Let Ober go. Its not worth the lottery ticket if they can find a trade partner.

The rotation should be fine without them both.

Pablo Lopez, Taj Bradley, Dean Kremer, Conner Prielipp, and Zebby Matthews.  Not a terrible rotation. I still wouldn't be against bringing in another starter.

[Mike Sixel]

3 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

People think rebuilds take a long time. They really don't. That was years ago when teams would disapear for awhile. 

However. Rebuilds do take a long time if you don't actually get started on it. 

To finish... you have to actually start. For example my car took a week to fix. The main problem was that it took me 6 days to get it to the shop.  

Last year was just a time suck. They could have been attacking 2028 fully loaded.

You and I saw that wall coming. It's almost like they didn't see it or care.

To quote Fastball. "Where were they going without ever knowing the way". 

Tommy boy was convinced they could trick people into going to games. Nothing more or less. The problem is, and always has been, ownership. He didn't let them finish the rebuild. 

The scouting mess is on the budget for example. 

[Riverbrian]

8 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Tommy boy was convinced they could trick people into going to games. Nothing more or less. The problem is, and always has been, ownership. He didn't let them finish the rebuild. 

The scouting mess is on the budget for example. 

I do assume it was Tom.

Somebody stopped it abruptly. Someone had a false definition of rebuild. Some association of a negative attached to the term. Someone felt that re-whatever meant losing record. Someone made a big mistake. 

Lot of people have this stigma. I don't and I know you don't.

The average age of a MLB hitter has steadily gone lower over the years. The Twins have been consistently higher than the average. I spend a lot of time counting pre-arb players and I can tell you the league is younger, faster and stronger.

The league is younger than it has ever been and the Twins are typically a little older than the average. As a matter of fact. The only stretch of baseball that the Twins were consistently younger than league average was 1999 to 2005. Which led to the creation of the Piranhas. The Piranhas were in the center of a decade long stretch of AL Central titles and 90 Plus Win Seasons. The Piranhas were scrappy and fun to watch. The Piranha era was 2 million people through the turnstiles. 

I hope Tom reads the bolded part.