Time for Roden and Kreidler to go down

[srlarson]

We have seen enough....neither of these guys are major leaguers.....send em down and bring up some young guys......

[clone52]

14 minutes ago, srlarson said:

We have seen enough....neither of these guys are major leaguers.....send em down and bring up some young guys......

Who's your backup SS if Kriedler goes down?  Martin?  Lee? Clemens?  I think he definitely stays but should barely play.  Defensive replacement late in games or break glass in case of emergency.

Unless Ben Ross can play good SS defense, if he can, then I would agree.  Or if they call up Marek Houston.

Roden for Jenkins, Sabato, Rodriguez, frankly anyone is long overdue.

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, srlarson said:

We have seen enough....neither of these guys are major leaguers.....send em down and bring up some young guys......

Roden is crushing it today. Weird timing.

[Cory Engelhardt]

Good timing to say this today with Roden having 3 hits so far. And I also think Kreidler still has a roll as his glove at SS and CF are both pretty steady.

I think you are looking more at Jackson going down if anything.

[Craig Arko]

4 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Good timing to say this today with Roden having 3 hits so far. And I also think Kreidler still has a roll as his glove at SS and CF are both pretty steady.

I think you are looking more at Jackson going down if anything.

If Jackson could have been sent down that would have already happened. No options left.

When Buxton is activated in the next day or two, someone with options left will be sent down. Most likely one of Roden, Kreidler, or Martin. I have no idea who they will choose.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

8 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Good timing to say this today with Roden having 3 hits so far. And I also think Kreidler still has a roll as his glove at SS and CF are both pretty steady.

I think you are looking more at Jackson going down if anything.

I'll bet anyone a $100 on Jackson being sent down.   I say no.   

[Cory Engelhardt]

4 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

I'll bet anyone a $100 on Jackson being sent down.   I say no.   

Not here to bet, at least for that amount. But how important is a 3rd catcher that doesn't play? Especially if you have an ownership group who is stating they want to raise payroll next year?

It very well could be another player going down. I can see that. But just curious why a 3rd catcher on a roster is so important?

[FlyingFinn]

12 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

I'll bet anyone a $100 on Jackson being sent down.   I say no. 

It is interesting that the Twins seem to be keeping Jackson on the MLB roster so they have him for next year. With all the catching injuries, he won't make it through waivers.

[Whammy]

7 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Not here to bet, at least for that amount. But how important is a 3rd catcher that doesn't play? Especially if you have an ownership group who is stating they want to raise payroll next year?

It very well could be another player going down. I can see that. But just curious why a 3rd catcher on a roster is so important?

It has nothing to do with him being the 3rd catcher and everything to do with being the 2nd catcher in 2027.

You can argue how wise that is, but it's almost certainly the reason why he's on the 26 man roster,

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

Just now, FlyingFinn said:

It is interesting that the Twins seem to be keeping Jackson on the MLB roster so they have him for next year. With all the catching injuries, he won't make it through waivers.

Also for insurance this year have they have zero MLB quality catchers in the minors.  Plus I think they general like him think he is a defensive catcher with some upside with the bat.   I really do not understand the hate.  Your 13th player on the roster has a positive WAR.  There are also 6 teams now with 3 catchers on the roster and that number will increase September 1st.  

[Cory Engelhardt]

5 minutes ago, Whammy said:

It has nothing to do with him being the 3rd catcher and everything to do with being the 2nd catcher in 2027.

You can argue how wise that is, but it's almost certainly the reason why he's on the 26 man roster,

Maybe. That said, who's to say there is a 2027 season on time? And with an ownership group that is saying they want to raise payroll, I'd imagine a backup catcher wouldn't be that difficult to find before next season starts right?

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

11 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Not here to bet, at least for that amount. But how important is a 3rd catcher that doesn't play? Especially if you have an ownership group who is stating they want to raise payroll next year?

It very well could be another player going down. I can see that. But just curious why a 3rd catcher on a roster is so important?

Cory,  

What is the purpose of the 13th player on the roster?   To be a positive teammate,  generally be a veteran because they are getting minimal opportunities,  yet be effective when called upon.   He was called up due to Jeffers injury and did well in limited time.  The risk of DFA him again is that someone would likely claim him.  Now after a rash of catcher injuries- its a guarantee someone will claim him.   There are zero options in the minor leagues currently so if Caratini or Jeffers got hurt we would be SOL.  

There are 5 other teams that carry 3 catchers and that number will increase in Sept.  He has shown he can be a pinch runner,  has a BA above .300 and provides good defense at catcher.   So why is there such an urgency to get rid of him?   I really don't get it.   

If you bring one of the young players up they are going to have to get significant run.  Hence why it will likely be Martin, Roden or possibly Culpepper.    

[Cory Engelhardt]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

Also for insurance this year have they have zero MLB quality catchers in the minors.  Plus I think they general like him think he is a defensive catcher with some upside with the bat.   I really do not understand the hate.  Your 13th player on the roster has a positive WAR.  There are also 6 teams now with 3 catchers on the roster and that number will increase September 1st.  

Then maybe it is someone like Martin? I can see that. I more was saying I can see more value in a backup SS than I can a 3rd catcher. That's all. 

Not hate. I love Jackson's athletic ability and arm. 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

1 minute ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Maybe. That said, who's to say there is a 2027 season on time? And with an ownership group that is saying they want to raise payroll, I'd imagine a backup catcher wouldn't be that difficult to find before next season starts right?

Have you seen the FA options next year.  Its atrocious.  

[Cory Engelhardt]

Just now, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

Cory,  

What is the purpose of the 13th player on the roster?   To be a positive teammate,  generally be a veteran because they are getting minimal opportunities,  yet be effective when called upon.   He was called up due to Jeffers injury and did well in limited time.  The risk of DFA him again is that someone would likely claim him.  Now after a rash of catcher injuries- its a guarantee someone will claim him.   There are zero options in the minor leagues currently so if Caratini or Jeffers got hurt we would be SOL.  

There are 5 other teams that carry 3 catchers and that number will increase in Sept.  He has shown he can be a pinch runner,  has a BA above .300 and provides good defense at catcher.   So why is there such an urgency to get rid of him?   I really don't get it.   

If you bring one of the young players up they are going to have to get significant run.  Hence why it will likely be Martin, Roden or possibly Culpepper.    

Out of that group I'd have to say it's Martin then. I can't see a way that Culpepper goes back, not this soon.

[Whammy]

Just now, Cory Engelhardt said:

Maybe. That said, who's to say there is a 2027 season on time? And with an ownership group that is saying they want to raise payroll, I'd imagine a backup catcher wouldn't be that difficult to find before next season starts right?

Will backup catchers be available in the offseason? Certainly. But maybe they view him as an above average 2nd catcher and for something like $2M, that allows them to spend on other areas of the team.

 

[Cory Engelhardt]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

Have you seen the FA options next year.  Its atrocious.  

Trades can happen too. But who knows, maybe Jeffers is back in 2027 with Caratini as the backup?

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

3 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Trades can happen too. But who knows, maybe Jeffers is back in 2027 with Caratini as the backup?

So after trading a minimal prospect for what has shown to be a pretty solid backup catcher - the option is to DFA said solid catcher because we are currently carrying 3 catchers so we trade for another one next year?  

I would put the odds Jeffers with the Twins at zero.   We will offer him a QO.  He will not accept.  

[MMBoys93]

29 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

If Jackson could have been sent down that would have already happened. No options left.

When Buxton is activated in the next day or two, someone with options left will be sent down. Most likely one of Roden, Kreidler, or Martin. I have no idea who they will choose.

Alex Jackson is the same as every other backup catcher on free agency who gets anywhere from 1-2 million dollars. They haven’t needed him in weeks, holding out on him because they want him as a backup next year after buying at the deadline is just weird. He’ll be easy to replace 

[MMBoys93]

9 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

Cory,  

What is the purpose of the 13th player on the roster?   To be a positive teammate,  generally be a veteran because they are getting minimal opportunities,  yet be effective when called upon.   He was called up due to Jeffers injury and did well in limited time.  The risk of DFA him again is that someone would likely claim him.  Now after a rash of catcher injuries- its a guarantee someone will claim him.   There are zero options in the minor leagues currently so if Caratini or Jeffers got hurt we would be SOL.  

There are 5 other teams that carry 3 catchers and that number will increase in Sept.  He has shown he can be a pinch runner,  has a BA above .300 and provides good defense at catcher.   So why is there such an urgency to get rid of him?   I really don't get it.   

If you bring one of the young players up they are going to have to get significant run.  Hence why it will likely be Martin, Roden or possibly Culpepper.    

Because Jackson has a 23:1 K:BB ratio and his expected stats are below.

.194 xBA, .264 xSLG

He can be replaced so easily next year. 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

2 minutes ago, MMBoys93 said:

Alex Jackson is the same as every other backup catcher on free agency who gets anywhere from 1-2 million dollars. They haven’t needed him in weeks, holding out on him because they want him as a backup next year after buying at the deadline is just weird. He’ll be easy to replace 

I would argue he is more of an insurance policy this year than even next year.  

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

Just now, MMBoys93 said:

Because Jackson has a 23:1 K:BB ratio and his expected stats are below.

.194 xBA, .264 xSLG

He can be replaced so easily next year. 

Who you calling up if Caratini gets injured?  

[HarmonK03]

28 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Not here to bet, at least for that amount. But how important is a 3rd catcher that doesn't play? Especially if you have an ownership group who is stating they want to raise payroll next year?

It very well could be another player going down. I can see that. But just curious why a 3rd catcher on a roster is so important?

Read the game thread, that will tell you why it is important.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

5 minutes ago, HarmonK03 said:

Read the game thread, that will tell you why it is important.

No one has answered who we call up if Jeffers or Caratini gets injured and Jackson is no longer on the 40 man.   

[Whammy]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

No one has answered who we call up if Jeffers or Caratini gets injured and Jackson is no longer on the 40 man.   

Probably Banuelos, i suppose.

Not saying that's good, but that would be my guess.

[MMBoys93]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

Who you calling up if Caratini gets injured?  

Reese McGuire- FA, rated well defensively last year 

Tomas Nido- FA, rated well defensively

anyone who is on a minor league contract and hasn’t been on the 40 can still be traded as well. 
I get that as fans we can get lost in simple numbers, but every metric says Jackson is awful with the bat and that defense has slipped this year. He’s a dime a dozen. Holding him for a chance that someone gets hurt is silly. 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

Just now, Whammy said:

Probably Banuelos, i suppose.

Not saying that's good, but that would be my guess.

I would agree.  He will be a decent defensive option and provide zero with the bat.  

[HarmonK03]

I noticed a comment this is weird timing regarding Roden due to the day he had today but then Martin is mentioned as a candidate to go down as well.  It seems to be weird timing for Martin as he just went 4 for 5 on Monday in his last start.  Point is you have to look at the total resume not one game.  To me Roden needs to be the one to go down for Buxton, what would his role be.  It's either keep Jackson company at the end of the bench or you platoon him with Keaschall and make Keaschall a part time player which makes no sense.  The only player I would sit Larnach for a couple of games a week is Jenkins not Roden.

Martin has at least has a role and he has looked a little better in August.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

Just now, MMBoys93 said:

Reese McGuire- FA, rated well defensively last year 

Tomas Nido- FA, rated well defensively

anyone who is on a minor league contract and hasn’t been on the 40 can still be traded as well. 
I get that as fans we can get lost in simple numbers, but every metric says Jackson is awful with the bat and that defense has slipped this year. He’s a dime a dozen. Holding him for a chance that someone gets hurt is silly. 

Well the Twins organization has disagreed with assessment apparently.   

Reece has -.5 WAR this year  in 11 games  (woof)

Nido   -.1  in 10 games  

 Jackson  +.2 War in 29 games

Ive seen no dime a dozen catcher available that is as good as Jackson.  That is the crux of the argument MMM.  All we need to get through is to Sept 1st when rosters expand and then the silly argument effectively goes away.