Sano sitting for a few days after how he handled himself hitting homerun

[Mike Sixel]

I've never thought hte "right way" as the right way. I think athletes have amazingly bizarre combinations of huge egos, and frail egos.

[diehardtwinsfan]

What harm comes? I think sports are fun, and we are sucking the fun out. The guy hit a homerun, he should be happy and excited. There is only harm because people have decided it is bad, for no real reason. It does not actual harm, other than people inside their head. How you react to an event is on you, not on the event.

 

You didn't answer my question. I asked what good comes from this, not what harm. No good thing comes from showboating like that. None. Sano's (or someone else's) career can be ended as well. Even if it isn't, that doesn't provide any sort of strategic advantage over the opposing team. Nothing good can come from it.

[maxisagod]

Oh and this is a minor point, but what if the ball hadn't gone out but just hit the wall? Longest single ever. On a hit like that Sano needs to be standing on second base.

[E. Andrew]

This is one place where the Twins do not deserve any criticism. I listened to Dan Barrerio try to play both sides of this issue on the way home from work. There is no real question, this what you should do when anyone, major league or minor league crosses the line. Set him down for a few days. Unless you really liked the behavior of the Manny Rameriez's of this world, I don't understand how anyone can be upset with the Twins, here.

 

The minor leagues is where kids learn how to play like major leaguers. They should also learn how to act like major leaguers. There are exceptions, but baseball players generally act like professionals. Unlike many football players and basketball players. I appreciate that the Twins do more than talk about their players acting professionally. This has nothing to do with curbing personality. Harmon Killebrew, Tony Olivia, Kirby Puckett, Kent Hrbek and many others had plenty of personality, but it didn't keep them from acting professionally on the field.

 

I agree with the previous poster, who said act like you been there before.

 

Spot on. And, you'd obviously bench below-average minor-leaguer X for show boating. You need to correct idiots. But, then Sano does the same thing.... if you don't hand out the same punishment, you set a dangerous precedent. He's now above the rules, and the organization. You want him show up at optional workouts in the big leagues? Make him behave like everyone else now.

[jokin]

Twins fans don't worry about Sano's attitude. When he makes his MLB debut in 3 years he will have grown out of such things.

 

One thing I didn't see commented about by anyone but there may be some history with the pitcher. Does anyone even know who the pitcher was?

 

???????Are you being ironically sarcastic? He better be debuting in September or sometime in 2014!

[nicksaviking]

Spot on. And, you'd obviously bench below-average minor-leaguer X for show boating. You need to correct idiots. But, then Sano does the same thing.... if you don't hand out the same punishment, you set a dangerous precedent. He's now above the rules, and the organization. You want him show up at optional workouts in the big leagues? Make him behave like everyone else now.

 

It's a fine line, I'm not defending Sano as I didn't like the showboating, but I also don't want him transformed into a deferrential Minnesota boy-scout. However you said below-average minor-leaguers have been benched for this. I'm just wondering if people have examples of multi-game suspensions for this kind of bravado? A benching for the rest of the game seems like it would occur often, but do other teams other than the Twins have players sit multiple games?

[twinsnorth49]

There has always been a dichotomy between confidence and arrogance, this is really just an issue of maturity in my opinion. Sano is definitely a confident young man, as he should be, his display however reeked of arrogance and nobody appreciates that.

 

The problem arises if he never learns the difference.

[Mike Sixel]

I did answer your question.....since no harm comes, other than how stupid ballplayers are about it, it shouldn't be an issue. I think it is fun to watch a relief pitcher show emotion when he strikes out that key guy. I just don't see the harm, and if there is no harm, it should be ok. This is like the NFL outlawing TD celebrations, some of them were fun, but because players feel "shown up" for no reason, they outlawed them. Just silliness, imo. It is entertainment.

[twinsnorth49]

There's lots of ways to display respectful ways of emotion that still qualify as fun, start advocating this kind of thing however and the next thing you know we have the NBA.

 

He hit a HR, ok, he's hit them before, enjoy it but at least act like you've done it before.

[big dog]

A few people have mentioned a "suspension"- I believe he's just sitting out a few games, he's not officially suspended. He sits on the bench, he keeps his paycheck, he supports his team- big difference compared to a suspension from a morale standpoint.

[jokin]

It's a learning experience for him.

 

I'm sure it is a fine line between making sure players respect the "rules of the game" (even the unwritten ones) and crushing their spirit.

 

I, too, would prefer that Twins players should a little more liveliness in general but there are times to do that and times not to do that.

 

I think TRex is correct about his struggles at AA weighing on him. So a break may be good for him.

This points out one of the concerns I have with the abundance of minor league coverage. It's great that people are interested in prospects but we all need to remember that many of them are pretty young kids. Everything tends to get blown out of proportion by the blogosphere, commenters and yes, now the mainstream media too. Not sure that benching Sano (or a similar high end prospect) would have been even a blip 20 years ago.

 

The thing about his time at AA is, the "struggles" are actually luck-related more than his troubles adjusting to the Eastern League. His BB rate is actually 2% higher than at Ft Myers (13.9% vs. 11.9%), representing a 17% increase in his walk rate at New Britain. Meanwhile, his K rate is only slightly higher than with the Miracle (about 5%). He's slugging at a very, very, torrid clip- a .562 SLG -- if he qualified, that mark would rank him second overall in the EL!

His .895 OPS is just a blip behind teammate Josmil Pinto, who at .899 is 3rd in the EL in that category.

Furthermore, his isolated power rate of .331 is actually six points higher than with Ft Myers (.325).

Putting that in perspective, the qualifying leader in Isolated Power in the Eastern League is Allan Dykstra. His ISO is a full 55 points behind Sano, at .276!

 

The only big discrepancy that stands out is his BABIP of .237 (vs a .397 BABIP with the Miracle). So, he really hasn't been struggling, physically. Mentally, maybe, more a victim of his bad luck at the plate and being in the glare of the spotlight from the Futures Game hype and all the expectations of recently moving up to #3 in the BA rankings.

 

The article you linked to provides the bulk of the concern over Sano on this issue, JB:

 

 

"There is no time frame for Sano's return, Twins farm director Brad Steil said Thursday.

 

"Just a normal player-development decision," Steil said, declining to characterize the misdeed. "We have discipline for all sorts of things that we do. This is one of them. He's not going to play for a few games."

[jokin]

A few people have mentioned a "suspension"- I believe he's just sitting out a few games, he's not officially suspended. He sits on the bench, he keeps his paycheck, he supports his team- big difference compared to a suspension from a morale standpoint.

 

See my post for the quote from Twins management on his "official" status.

[Steven Buhr]

I really don't think Sano will ever learn this particular lesson. He did the same thing with Beloit, he did the same thing with Ft Myers, and now he's doing it with New Britain. And people still don't want the Twins to do anything about it? Whatever. Good luck ever being able to treat him like anything but a prima donna if you wait 'til he's in Minnesota to even try.

 

Going all the way back to the 16 yr old Sano in the documentary, he's come off as "me first" kid. Given his background, that's not surprising, but I don't have to like that he hasn't grown out of that yet and doesn't appear likely to.

 

I do think it's unfortunate for the fans who aren't getting to see his talent on the field while he's benched and if it costs his team some wins, his team mates pay an unfair price, too. Maybe sitting him a game and then dropping his butt to #9 in the order for a week or more would be as effective and still let fans see him hit. His ego might smart just as much from that as it would from a benching.

 

Either way, I'm not confident he'll ever learn this particular "lesson" and one day someone will put one in his ear.

 

I'm a Twins fan and I hope to be able to watch Sano's talent on display in a Twins uniform for a long time. But I don't have to "like" every Twins player, regardless of their talent. I'm a big Byron Buxton fan, but I am starting to think I may never really like Sano beyond simply for what he can accomplish statistically for my particular favorite team.

[roger]

Didn't he hit one last year against Cedar Rapids that led to a bench clearing brawl?

[jokin]

I really don't think Sano will ever learn this particular lesson. He did the same thing with Beloit, he did the same thing with Ft Myers, and now he's doing it with New Britain. And people still don't want the Twins to do anything about it? Whatever. Good luck ever being able to treat him like anything but a prima donna if you wait 'til he's in Minnesota to even try.

 

Going all the way back to the 16 yr old Sano in the documentary, he's come off as "me first" kid. Given his background, that's not surprising, but I don't have to like that he hasn't grown out of that yet and doesn't appear likely to.

 

I do think it's unfortunate for the fans who aren't getting to see his talent on the field while he's benched and if it costs his team some wins, his team mates pay an unfair price, too. Maybe sitting him a game and then dropping his butt to #9 in the order for a week or more would be as effective and still let fans see him hit. His ego might smart just as much from that as it would from a benching.

 

Either way, I'm not confident he'll ever learn this particular "lesson" and one day someone will put one in his ear.

 

I'm a Twins fan and I hope to be able to watch Sano's talent on display in a Twins uniform for a long time. But I don't have to "like" every Twins player, regardless of their talent. I'm a big Byron Buxton fan, but I am starting to think I may never really like Sano beyond simply for what he can accomplish statistically for my particular favorite team.

 

And what's so wrong with that? It seems like once-in-a-generation talent is already being written off by a certain segment of Twins fandom. Gee whiz, he's 20 with an enormous set of talent, who has worked hard to get his fielding to the point that the Twins are now saying that fielding is one of his strong points, not a hindrance to promotion. His ego to this point is not what's holding him back, it's a basic element essential in how he got to this point in the first place.

 

I'm guessing 29 other teams have already heard from his agent....and gladly took the call. Like other great talents (but lesser than Sano...Ortiz, Garza, Lohse, etc.), look for the exasperated Twins to be moving Sano during his arb years for less than full realized value. Ouch!

[cmathewson]

I would be upset about this if it was the first time he's done something like this this year. But he had a similar incident in Fort Myers and I'm sure the Twins thought that he was past all that after his last discipline.

 

All that said, I saw Torii Hunter flip his bat that way in a Twins uniform at least 100 times. So I can't say what so bad about it. He does need to jog and not trot, though.

[TwinsFanInPhilly]

Gee - the usual suspects on both sides taking their arguments to the extremes. How refreshing!

[nicksaviking]

I'm a Twins fan and I hope to be able to watch Sano's talent on display in a Twins uniform for a long time. But I don't have to "like" every Twins player, regardless of their talent. I'm a big Byron Buxton fan, but I am starting to think I may never really like Sano beyond simply for what he can accomplish statistically for my particular favorite team.

 

Yeah, I want every Twins player to be an upstanding citizen and humble humanitarian, but I think we all understand it's not going to happen.

 

I don't want Sano to behave like Manny Rameriz, but if that type of attitude helps to enable that kind of production and ability to come through in the clutch to win big games, I'll definately take the trade off.

 

Even if he is hard to embrace due to his attitude, a successfull team is very easy to embrace and he may be able to help in that regard.

 

That being said, I don't think it's fair for us to assume he has a bad attitude. It's premature and an overconfident HR celebration probably shouldn't be admissable evidence.

[jokin]

Gee - the usual suspects on both sides taking their arguments to the extremes. How refreshing!

 

Based on your "like", you've evidently cast your lot with one of those "extreme" sides. Rather than inflame the debate with needless trolling ("how refreshing!"), please state where you stand on the issue to add to the debate. One thing both sides agree on is that Sano is being counted on as one of the Centerpieces in returning the franchise to relevancy. This naturally means that passion and interest level would run high.

[JB_Iowa]

The only big discrepancy that stands out is his BABIP of .237 (vs a .397 BABIP with the Miracle). So, he really hasn't been struggling, physically. Mentally, maybe, more a victim of his bad luck at the plate and being in the glare of the spotlight from the Futures Game hype and all the expectations of recently moving up to #3 in the BA rankings.

 

How you respond to "bad luck" is also part of growing as a ballplayer. And frankly, so is how you respond to being benched for a few days.

 

This episode and the resulting benching of Sano may very well tell us (and the Twins) a lot more about Sano than we know now.

 

I don't want them to take away all of his attitude. But there are players with a lot of attitude who don't showboat. Learning where that line lies is part of his maturation as a ballplayer.

 

And I want to reiterate my point from the end of my 2nd post. Modern media magnifies all of this in ways that we just wouldn't have seen in the past.

[Steven Buhr]

roger, Sano did pimp a HR in Cedar Rapids last year and it resulted in some players getting in one anothers' faces a bit. Words were particularly exchanged between the Kernels catcher and Sano (though I wouldn't bet money either one really understood what the other was saying, given the language barrier involved). But there was no brawl, as such.

 

jokin, since you chided TFIP for "liking" my post, I guess you're suggesting my view is among those "extremes." Guess we'll agree to disagree. I don't think it's extreme to say that, from what I've seen of him so far, I don't much care for the way Sano behaves in this area and since I see no evidence of it being likely to change, he probably won't be a player I have any particular affection for outside of whatever value he may bring statistically.

 

nicksaviking, I do take issue with your last paragraph. First of all, as has been pointed out, this is not a case of "an" overconfident HR celebration. It's not a single incident, it's the most recent in a number of similar such demonstrations. Those multiple incidents... or even just a single incident, for that matter... would certainly be "evidence" of an attitude problem. Not proof, perhaps, but one's behavior is certainly evidence of one's attitude.

[Kwak]

I am a bit more tolerant than many when it comes to "showboating"--but let's be blunt he isn't Miguel Cabrera, yet! Being a stud in minor leagues isn't nearly the accomplishment as in the majors. Considering his "failure rate" a subdued celebration is more appropriate. Besides is hitting a HR of that specific pitcher all that noteworthy anyway?

[nicksaviking]

nicksaviking, I do take issue with your last paragraph. First of all, as has been pointed out, this is not a case of "an" overconfident HR celebration. It's not a single incident, it's the most recent in a number of similar such demonstrations. Those multiple incidents... or even just a single incident, for that matter... would certainly be "evidence" of an attitude problem. Not proof, perhaps, but one's behavior is certainly evidence of one's attitude.

 

You've seen him first hand so your assement has a bolder footing, but you mention this is one of a number of demonstrations. I would then assume the demonstrations are all on-field showboating related?

 

I'm not defending Sano, but I don't think his bragadocious HR behavior neccissarily translates to off field issues. As one poster mentioned, Killebrew was known to admire his HR swing. The ESPN tribute showed a usually pretty pokey Killebrew getting out of the batter's box. Particularly check the 1:38 mark.

 

 

Check out 1:41 on this Thome highlight:

 

 

How would that bat toss fly with the Twins brass?

 

I'm not saying Sano is a good guy, but chronic or not, I'm going to need more than his HR trot to make that decision.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I don't think sitting him for a couple of games is going to set back his career or hurt his development. It seems appropriate. Actions like this have caused some pretty big dustups recently... If it happens in the pros, it's the type of thing that can 5 and 10 game suspensions for multiple players... and injuries on top of that.

Willihammer was worried about getting beaned would set him back, not getting benched.

[jokin]

How you respond to "bad luck" is also part of growing as a ballplayer. And frankly, so is how you respond to being benched for a few days.

 

This episode and the resulting benching of Sano may very well tell us (and the Twins) a lot more about Sano than we know now.

 

I don't want them to take away all of his attitude. But there are players with a lot of attitude who don't showboat. Learning where that line lies is part of his maturation as a ballplayer.

 

And I want to reiterate my point from the end of my 2nd post. Modern media magnifies all of this in ways that we just wouldn't have seen in the past.

 

I think based on all the evidence presented, we can now both agree that the "struggling" supposition as a reason for his behavior has no merit. This behavior is evidently part of who he is throughout his professional career. I would be most interested in evidence being presented in how other teams have dealt with up-and-coming phenoms in similar situations. Especially one at his age and impoverished background.

 

As many others have stated, Harmon and many others have been guilty of the long, self-admiring pause at the plate after going yard. Some are beloved and model teammates and citizens, others, like Barry Bonds are outright pariahs. Again, he's 20, with almost singularly unique talent, most Twins fans are willing to put up with some attitude and a wait for more maturation if it means having spectacularly good talent on the field and being a significant cog in winning championships.

 

I would hope that Twins management assumes the role of Father-Figure concerning disciplinary issues and continue to let it be known to Miguel, that like a Father, the Twins will continue to "love" and care for Sano's continued developmental well-being unconditionally, knowing that, like a Father, no matter how many, or bad the mistakes might be, they still have his "back", at all times.

[Steven Buhr]

nick, all I've personally observed is the HR pimping and the immediate fallout from that last year when he not only pimped the HR, but got in the catcher's face when he dared to express displeasure with Sano having done so. I also wrote about how he was patiently signing autographs for fans before the game, on the road, too... so I'm not saying he's some kind of "bad person."

 

There's a time and place for celebrating a HR and I don't even have a particular issue with a little excessive celebrating. A pitcher knocks you down and you get up and take him yard? Yeah... take as long as you friggin like to get around the bases. Make the SOB stand and watch you circle for 10 minutes for all I care.

 

Better yet, win an important game with that HR or at least put your team ahead in that game, then a little bit of pride showing as you circle is just fine with me. Win a World Series game with a HR and, hell, I'll come down on the field and stand next to you and we'll watch that ball sail together before you start trotting!

 

But dude, your team was behind when you came up and they're still behind when you reach home plate? Pimping that is doing nothing but saying, "hey everyone look at how great I am. I hit a meaningless HR off a pitcher who nobody will ever remember in a minor league game, but damn I'm good!" Are we really saying that causing a blip closer to the midpoint of a WPA chart for a AA game is grounds for showboating now? Not for me. And I'm just not a big fan of players, regardless of talent, who appear to be more about personal glory than winning games.

[jokin]

roger, Sano did pimp a HR in Cedar Rapids last year and it resulted in some players getting in one anothers' faces a bit. Words were particularly exchanged between the Kernels catcher and Sano (though I wouldn't bet money either one really understood what the other was saying, given the language barrier involved). But there was no brawl, as such.

 

jokin, since you chided TFIP for "liking" my post, I guess you're suggesting my view is among those "extremes." Guess we'll agree to disagree. I don't think it's extreme to say that, from what I've seen of him so far, I don't much care for the way Sano behaves in this area and since I see no evidence of it being likely to change, he probably won't be a player I have any particular affection for outside of whatever value he may bring statistically.

 

nicksaviking, I do take issue with your last paragraph. First of all, as has been pointed out, this is not a case of "an" overconfident HR celebration. It's not a single incident, it's the most recent in a number of similar such demonstrations. Those multiple incidents... or even just a single incident, for that matter... would certainly be "evidence" of an attitude problem. Not proof, perhaps, but one's behavior is certainly evidence of one's attitude.

 

My point was every team has fans who have favorites, beloveds, pariahs and mehs. You seem to be saying that you have decided that, at age 20, Sano is destined, no....pre-determined to fall into the pariah category that you will be forced to put up with as long as he's producing. That, to me, is an extreme position in terms of personal characterization to take.

 

Manny being Manny can be distracting to downright annoying, even to his own team's fans. His tenure's at Cleveland and Boston both lasted 8 years apiece- so I guess that shows how long before a welcome is worn out. Of course, a .937 career post-season OPS with 29 HRs helps keep the Welcome Mat out a little longer.

 

All I'm saying is, let's not presumptively conclude that Miguel is destined to be Manny behaviorally. I, for one, am willing to put up with some level of annoyance and maturation issues to reignite a positive buzz about this currently moribund franchise's on-field return to relevancy rather than laughing-stock.

[TwinsFanInPhilly]

JC I'd "like" your last post but I fear someone on my iggy list may pitch a fit over it.

[twinsnorth49]

He's 20, 20 year olds do impulsive, self indulgent things, I see no reason to believe this is something that will necessarily continue, or hold him back for that matter. I also don't believe that if the team tries to get him to tone down the cockiness that it takes his edge away, that's an entirely different thing altogether. He's not going to turn into some Punch and Judy just because a team doesn't want him to show opponents up, please.

[UCLA_YANKEE_COLA]

Trying to determine what kind of person 20 year old Miguel Sano will be in the coming years based off of watching him play in a game or two and watching a couple of fuzzy youtube videos is pretty silly.

 

I have no problem with sitting him but, as has been said several times in this thread, Harmon Killebrew did this ALL THE TIME. And he's widely considered one of the most likeable human beings to ever put on a uniform.

 

I'm not saying there are racial undertones to certain responses here but I would like to see an identical response if Kepler ever pimps a HR or if Kohl Stewart goes all Big Z after striking out a guy to end an inning.