Vikings @ Lions 11/2/25

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

23 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

So apparently the cuteness at the end of the game might not have been KOC's fault. On DN some of the commentators are saying that JJ audibled to the pass to Jefferson on second down and then screwed up the RPO on 3rd down and ran out of bounds. If that's right, that's more growing pains to overcome and hopefully he will have a better understanding of the importance of the clock going forward. 

 

I like knowing McCarthy is making decisions on the fly already, even if they backfire. With Jefferson and KOC he has good people around him to help him. It’s a compete 180 from the days of Cousins not doing audibles claiming Zimmer didn’t want him to, and then Zimmer pointing the finger back at Cousins. 

[gunnarthor]

30 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

I like knowing McCarthy is making decisions on the fly already, even if they backfire. With Jefferson and KOC he has good people around him to help him. It’s a compete 180 from the days of Cousins not doing audibles claiming Zimmer didn’t want him to, and then Zimmer pointing the finger back at Cousins. 

Yeah, McCarthy doesn't seem to lack confidence. 

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, gunnarthor said:

So apparently the cuteness at the end of the game might not have been KOC's fault. On DN some of the commentators are saying that JJ audibled to the pass to Jefferson on second down and then screwed up the RPO on 3rd down and ran out of bounds. If that's right, that's more growing pains to overcome and hopefully he will have a better understanding of the importance of the clock going forward. 

There were several other botched plays, typically run plays, early in the game. I was wondering if the 3rd down play was another one, because having the QB roll out on an RPO would have been a good call there; either super high percentage pass or QB runs and eats the clock. But there were no receivers on that side of the field and it was the short side of the field so he ran out of room to run real fast. Did McCarthy actually bootleg in the wrong direction? Seems crazy that he could do that, but I think it's possible.

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

I like knowing McCarthy is making decisions on the fly already, even if they backfire. With Jefferson and KOC he has good people around him to help him. It’s a compete 180 from the days of Cousins not doing audibles claiming Zimmer didn’t want him to, and then Zimmer pointing the finger back at Cousins. 

Yeah, that's what I'm looking for in a QB that can carry a team. I want a guy who will improvise when needed. The coach calling the play doesn't get to see the defense before choosing; the best QBs don't worry about disregarding the call partially, entirely, or just taking off running. And the best coaches don't worry about the QB doing it either. 

Now, making the right decisions on the fly is a different story. That seems like something you can learn through experience though. Actually having the nerve to improvise is probably something you can't learn though. You either have it or you don't and you're a boy scout doing what the coach wants all the time.

[gunnarthor]

For those interested and not having a lot of work on their desk, I thought this was an interesting breakdown of how JJ played, both the good and the bad. If nothing else, jump to 7min mark to hear how he missed a route and how he's learning.

 

[Danchat]

17 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

Were they? I dunno.

He had 1 full tackle and 1 assist on special teams, and 1 full tackle and 1 assist on defense. 

 

5 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

Or it was based on the fact that once Van Ginkel came back he's not worth having on the field.  If he wasn't a bust, he'd be forcing his way on there.  Jalen Redmond is forcing his way on the field.  Eric Wilson is forcing his way on the field.  These are guys with no investment of any real significance that are earning their playing time.  Flores snatched Turner off the field the moment Gink was available.

Yeah, he was only out there for 10 snaps on passing downs and he dropped into coverage on 5 of them. Flores doesn't trust him out there despite having a decent pressure rate, as he's played plenty of 3 edge rusher packages in the past before with the likes of DJ Wonnum and Pat Jones. 

It could also be punishment for the horrid game he had last week (inexcusable personal foul and a offside penalty). But there is room for him to play 50-60% of the snaps with Greenard and AVG playing (it happened Week 1). Flores doesn't trust him and he's usually not wrong about that sort of thing.

[TheLeviathan]

5 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Interesting. But KOC needs to tell him before those plays not to pass? But then, it's not like they talked..... That would change my thoughts on the coaching. 

I wish on some plays there was no check/second play.  Just "we're running this...hell or high water"

[TheLeviathan]

30 minutes ago, Danchat said:

He had 1 full tackle and 1 assist on special teams, and 1 full tackle and 1 assist on defense. 

 

Yeah, he was only out there for 10 snaps on passing downs and he dropped into coverage on 5 of them. Flores doesn't trust him out there despite having a decent pressure rate, as he's played plenty of 3 edge rusher packages in the past before with the likes of DJ Wonnum and Pat Jones. 

It could also be punishment for the horrid game he had last week (inexcusable personal foul and a offside penalty). But there is room for him to play 50-60% of the snaps with Greenard and AVG playing (it happened Week 1). Flores doesn't trust him and he's usually not wrong about that sort of thing.

I honestly don't see the pressure rate showing up on screen.  He feels like "second guy there" pressures.  I can't recall a single time he blew up a pocket.  He should be a guy they had doing those linebacker twists with and blowing it up....but it was Pace and Cashman.

And the night and day difference with the run D seems related as well.  I have the same conclusion - Flores doesn't love what he's doing out there.  He got his binky back in Gink and was all too happy to sit Turner.

[Mike Sixel]

21 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I wish on some plays there was no check/second play.  Just "we're running this...hell or high water"

Pretty sure there is..... Or should be. 

[Cap'n Piranha]

Any time you beat DET on the road, and it's not one of those gimmicky wins (like the refs being insanely one-sided, or the other team losing 5 fumbles), you have to take notice.  That was a game we all thought would be ugly, and not only was it not, but the Vikes got the win.

What's important now is what happens next; was this a classic "the NFL makes no sense game", and pretty quickly the Vikings go back to bad offense and a defense that tires at the end due to being on the field too much?  Or was this a corner turned, and there's a path to 10-11 wins?  Clearly, JJM is going to have to better--you're not going to consistently win in the NFL with a 56% completion rate and barely 10 yards per completion.

On defense, it's abundantly clear that unless Greenard and AVG are both out there, our defense is not reliable--here's hoping they can both be healthy the rest of the way, because the drop-off to Turner is precipitous.  Let's see how next Sunday goes against a team with a rest advantage, and on paper, an ability to run the ball right at us.  A victory over the Ravens would go a long way towards raising my confidence level, and especially if JJM handles success better than the last time (ATL out of the CHI game, although having a newborn might have contributed there).

[Vanimal46]

1 hour ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

Any time you beat DET on the road, and it's not one of those gimmicky wins (like the refs being insanely one-sided, or the other team losing 5 fumbles), you have to take notice.  That was a game we all thought would be ugly, and not only was it not, but the Vikes got the win.

What's important now is what happens next; was this a classic "the NFL makes no sense game", and pretty quickly the Vikings go back to bad offense and a defense that tires at the end due to being on the field too much?  Or was this a corner turned, and there's a path to 10-11 wins?  Clearly, JJM is going to have to better--you're not going to consistently win in the NFL with a 56% completion rate and barely 10 yards per completion.

On defense, it's abundantly clear that unless Greenard and AVG are both out there, our defense is not reliable--here's hoping they can both be healthy the rest of the way, because the drop-off to Turner is precipitous.  Let's see how next Sunday goes against a team with a rest advantage, and on paper, an ability to run the ball right at us.  A victory over the Ravens would go a long way towards raising my confidence level, and especially if JJM handles success better than the last time (ATL out of the CHI game, although having a newborn might have contributed there).

I had a bad feeling about this game and I’m happy to be proven wrong! 

McCarthy definitely left some positive gains on the field yesterday. His throws on the run were way off the mark. 

On defense AVG is definitely the glue guy for the entire defense. His versatility is unmatched and it puts our highly drafted bust Turner back in a rotational spot where he deserves