Fired coaches thread

[nicksaviking]

15 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

What a baby. 

Yeah, shocking that NFL teams aren't interested in him any more.

Now he just seems petty and indignant that Brady got more credit than he did and delusional because he won't take any blame for the terrible rosters he constructed after Brady left.

[gunnarthor]

Um, Mike Zimmer is getting married. 

https://www.the-sun.com/sport/13226042/dallas-cowboys-mike-zimmer-engaged-model-girlfriend/

Congratulations are in order. 

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, gunnarthor said:

Um, Mike Zimmer is getting married. 

https://www.the-sun.com/sport/13226042/dallas-cowboys-mike-zimmer-engaged-model-girlfriend/

Congratulations are in order. 

Where to even start?

Probably best not to I suppose.

[nicksaviking]

Ryan Poles is suggesting the Bears could trade for a coach.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/43323941/bears-look-all-avenues-find-new-coach

I know people threw out this idea with Shanahan as the target earlier (terrible, awful, fit for Caleb Williams BTW), but seems like there may be steam here.

My prediction would be Kevin Stefanski. Good coach, hindered by terrible ownership and terrible QB. The Browns would probably love to get out from under the remaining four years of his deal too. 

I don't want this though. There are very few exciting offensive minded HC options this year; mostly it's defensive guys. And obviously after the Eberflus mess and with them needing to develop Williams to his peak, the Bears will want an intriguing offensive guy. I think Stefanski might be an excellent fit. So I hope it doesn't happen.

[TheLeviathan]

Antonio Pierce fired for not miraculously winning with a terrible team.

[nicksaviking]

2 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Antonio Pierce fired for not miraculously winning with a terrible team.

Lot of that going around.

[Vanimal46]

Another 1 and done black HC in the NFL. Raiders are calling on Bill Belichick now. Which would be a hilarious rug-pull to screw over North Carolina. 

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

Another 1 and done black HC in the NFL. Raiders are calling on Bill Belichick now. Which would be a hilarious rug-pull to screw over North Carolina. 

The Raiders don't get nearly enough scorn for what a garbage organization they are.

[Vanimal46]

30 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

The Raiders don't get nearly enough scorn for what a garbage organization they are.

No doubt. They’re right up there with the Jets being the most toxic organization over the last 25 years. 

[TheLeviathan]

17 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

No doubt. They’re right up there with the Jets being the most toxic organization over the last 25 years. 

For sure.  Antonio Pierce caused ASU a ton of problems before he left to join the Raiders, so I don't have a ton of sympathy for him....but my god that organization is a mess.  

And I'm with you about the league, it's like the only time they hire black coaches are when they are looking for a placeholder. 

[Aggies7]

It’s easy to say that regarding race of coaches fired, but look at that list I posted yesterday, Of the 9 one and done coaches in the last ten years, 6 have been white and the Texans hired a black coach, fired him after one year, hired another black coach, fired him after a year and then hired another black coach. At one point you could make the placeholder argument, but there really isn’t any convincing evidence over the last decade or so that would indicate some racist practices in coach hirings and firings.
 

After I looked in to it, from what it sounds like, Kraft had it in Mayo’s contract that he was belichick’s successor and would learn while on his staff. From Kraft’s comments the other day, it sounds like Mayo just simply wasn’t ready, and Kraft took the blame.

[nicksaviking]

2 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

It’s easy to say that, but look at that list I posted. Of the 9 one and done coaches in the last ten years, 6 have been white and the Texans hired a black coach, fired him after one year, hired another black coach, fired him after a year and then hired another black coach.
 

After I looked in to it, from what it sounds like, Kraft had it in Mayo’s contract that he was belichick’s successor and would learn while on his staff. From Kraft’s comments, it sounds like he just simply wasn’t ready, and Kraft took the blame.

If anyone has the balls to hire Flores, it will be Robert Kraft.

But hope he hires Ben Johnson or Aaron Glenn instead.

[Aggies7]

2 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

If anyone has the balls to hire Flores, it will be Robert Kraft.

The Flores situation will be interesting considering his Miami stuff. We’ll see if there’s any collusion going on to keep him from a HC job. Although I’d have to believe that would have more to do with his suing the league and not his racial background. Let’s hope he doesn’t go anywhere, regardless.

[Aggies7]

There apparently have been 34 one and dones in NFL history.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/list-of-first-year-nfl-coaches-fired/#:~:text=HomeEvergreen-,One and Done NFL Head Coaches%3A Antonio Piece%2C Jerod Mayo,NFL Coaches Fired Throughout History&text=Although not common%2C there have,of coaching throughout league history.
 

Had absolutely no idea that Lou Holtz coached the jets in 1976 😂 apparently he resigned and wasn’t fired. But his quote was gold “god did not put Lou Holtz on this earth to coach the pros” 😂😂😂There are some real bums on that list. 

[TheLeviathan]

11 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

It’s easy to say that regarding race of coaches fired, but look at that list I posted yesterday, Of the 9 one and done coaches in the last ten years, 6 have been white and the Texans hired a black coach, fired him after one year, hired another black coach, fired him after a year and then hired another black coach. At one point you could make the placeholder argument, but there really isn’t any convincing evidence over the last decade or so that would indicate some racist practices in coach hirings and firings.
 

After I looked in to it, from what it sounds like, Kraft had it in Mayo’s contract that he was belichick’s successor and would learn while on his staff. From Kraft’s comments the other day, it sounds like Mayo just simply wasn’t ready, and Kraft took the blame.

Well, let's look a tad deeper than shall we?  

The only black coaches even hired in that time frame have been Lovie Smith (2 years), Jim Caldwell (4 years) Todd Bowles (4 years), Hue Jackson (2.5 years), Anthony Lynn (4 years), Vance Joseph (2 years), Steve Wilks (1 year), Brian Flores (3 years), David Culley (1 year), Demeco Ryans (2 years and counting), Antonio Pierce (1 year), Jared Mayo (1 year), Raheem Morris (1 year and counting).

Out of 13 tries, I count 4 guys that only got one year.  I guarantee you that percentage (31%)  is way higher than the 6 white guys that got fired after one.  

[Parfigliano]

On 1/7/2025 at 1:32 PM, gunnarthor said:

Um, Mike Zimmer is getting married. 

https://www.the-sun.com/sport/13226042/dallas-cowboys-mike-zimmer-engaged-model-girlfriend/

Congratulations are in order. 

My invite must be lost in the mail.

[Aggies7]

The rate is definitely higher, but look even further. 

The Texans are responsible for 2 of those one and done firings of black coaches. Were they guided by bigotry? They’ve now hired 3 consecutive different black coaches. Never been done in history. Hard case to make. 

What about mayo? Kraft says he selected him 5 years ago to be the head coach after belichick. Even had it in his contract. Would he do that with the plan of firing him because he’s a secret racist? Would be odd. Reports are that he wasn’t ready and kraft’s own words said as much.

How about pierce? The raiders have had 4 black head coaches in their history (art shell twice). More than any franchise in the league. Pierce was a linebackers coach after leaving Arizona state amid a recruiting scandal that cost them a bowl ban. Could argue he wasn’t even qualified but that organization always seems to make the wrong call.
 

All I’m saying is that you need context if you want to allege racism. There were 9 minority head coaches in the nfl this year, which is a record. The lack of hires in the past is another argument. The nfl is making progress but progress can be slow. Some of these franchises and coaches are just a mess and make bad hiring decisions, like Kraft bungling the patriots. It doesn’t always have to be ugly racism 
 

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, Aggies7 said:

The Flores situation will be interesting considering his Miami stuff. We’ll see if there’s any collusion going on to keep him from a HC job. Although I’d have to believe that would have more to do with his suing the league and not his racial background. Let’s hope he doesn’t go anywhere, regardless.

Yeah, collusion is the issue. But I think Kraft is one of the few who are fine telling the rest of the league to screw off.

[Aggies7]

I’ll add this too…I think many black coaches are set up to fail. Perfect cases are Mayo and Pierce. Both were previously linebackers coaches. Not even coordinators at the nfl level. I know the league is also trying to hire minority coordinators the way they do minority head coaches. I believe there were 18 minority D coordinators last season. I think many teams will want Glenn from Detroit and hopefully not but probably Flores as head coaches I couldn’t even name the inside linebackers coach on the Vikings.

I think a coach of any racial background will struggle when they skip steps on the experience ladder. There probably wasn’t going to be a much different outcome for mayo and pierce than what ended up happening.

Maybe I’m wrong but I do expect as more minority coaches gain positions in the NFL, the one and done rates will probably be more equal and this year will be an outlier.

[Aggies7]

Glazer doubles down on his KOC trade talk:

https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/jay-glazer-doubles-down-on-kevin-o-connell-report-i-don-t-really-get-a-lot-wrong-01jh0vyk20we

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, Aggies7 said:

The rate is definitely higher, but look even further. 

The Texans are responsible for 2 of those one and done firings of black coaches. Were they guided by bigotry? They’ve now hired 3 consecutive different black coaches. Never been done in history. Hard case to make. 

What about mayo? Kraft says he selected him 5 years ago to be the head coach after belichick. Even had it in his contract. Would he do that with the plan of firing him because he’s a secret racist? Would be odd. Reports are that he wasn’t ready and kraft’s own words said as much.

How about pierce? The raiders have had 4 black head coaches in their history (art shell twice). More than any franchise in the league. Pierce was a linebackers coach after leaving Arizona state amid a recruiting scandal that cost them a bowl ban. Could argue he wasn’t even qualified but that organization always seems to make the wrong call.
 

All I’m saying is that you need context if you want to allege racism. There were 9 minority head coaches in the nfl this year, which is a record. The lack of hires in the past is another argument. The nfl is making progress but progress can be slow. Some of these franchises and coaches are just a mess and make bad hiring decisions, like Kraft bungling the patriots. It doesn’t always have to be ugly racism 
 

I don't know how you're getting the Texans thing.  Wilks was AZ, Culley Houston, Mayo was NE, and Pierce was Vegas.

I actually don't need context, the evidence is really overwhelming that rich old white guys don't like hiring black guys.  And when they do, they get a lot less slack than the white guys.

Is it always racism?  No.  Is that a major factor?  Statistically speaking it would be crazy not to conclude it's a factor given all the data.

[Aggies7]

7 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I don't know how you're getting the Texans thing.  Wilks was AZ, Culley Houston, Mayo was NE, and Pierce was Vegas.

I actually don't need context, the evidence is really overwhelming that rich old white guys don't like hiring black guys.  And when they do, they get a lot less slack than the white guys.

Is it always racism?  No.  Is that a major factor?  Statistically speaking it would be crazy not to conclude it's a factor given all the data.

Lovie smith was the Texans head coach in 2022.

[TheLeviathan]

Just now, Aggies7 said:

Lovie smith was the Texans head coach in 2022.

That would make 5 of 14 then.  36% ain't helping the argument.

[Aggies7]

14 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

That would make 5 of 14 then.  36% ain't helping the argument.

Yeah but like I said, context matters. If you’re going to allege that racism drives these firings, then you have to explain Houston being responsible for firing 2 of those 5 guys before hiring a third black coach. It’s too easy to just say old white nfl owners are racist and give no context at all. Remember with pierce, the raiders players wanted him to have the interim tag removed and the team had just left a popular interim coach leave before signing Josh McDaniels. They had a good finish to last year. Then the Adams situation the on field play. Doesn’t sound like it was a plan to let Pierce be cannon fodder because mark davis is a secret racist. Same thing with the patriots situation. Hard for me to believe Robert Kraft was playing the long game to hide his racism. Progress is being made across the league, but some time individual years are just a disaster especially behind the scenes.

[nicksaviking]

27 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Yeah but like I said, context matters. If you’re going to allege that racism drives these firings, then you have to explain Houston being responsible for firing 2 of those 5 guys before hiring a third black coach. It’s too easy to just say old white nfl owners are racist and give no context at all. Remember with pierce, the raiders players wanted him to have the interim tag removed and the team had just left a popular interim coach leave before signing Josh McDaniels. They had a good finish to last year. Then the Adams situation the on field play. Doesn’t sound like it was a plan to let Pierce be cannon fodder because mark davis is a secret racist. Same thing with the patriots situation. Hard for me to believe Robert Kraft was playing the long game to hide his racism. Progress is being made across the league, but some time individual years are just a disaster especially behind the scenes.

Racism doesn't have to be overt to still be racism.

I'm sure often the thought process goes something like, 'Well, we're in bad shape, it would be good PR AND we'd be doing a good deed if we hire the black candidate. Our roster is terrible so it doesn't really matter who we pick, let's throw the guy a bone.'

Even if they think they are doing a good deed, they're still setting him up to fail and stain his resume, basically making the guy disposable.

[Aggies7]

14 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Racism doesn't have to be overt to still be racism.

I'm sure often the thought process goes something like, 'Well, we're in bad shape, it would be good PR AND we'd be doing a good deed if we hire the black candidate. Our roster is terrible so it doesn't really matter who we pick, let's throw the guy a bone.'

Even if they think they are doing a good deed, they're still setting him up to fail and stain his resume, basically making the guy disposable.

The raiders hired the first black head coach in the modern nfl in 1989. They were coming off an 8-9 record last season. They’ve had more minority coaches than any other team. Doubt they’d care to do that. I think in the raiders case, Jim Davis wasn’t going to let another popular interim coach walk out the door after what happened with Jim tomsula 

As far as the patriots, Kraft apparently had the plan to develop him as a head coach. Since 2019. That’s a crazy long time to work on good PR that nobody really cares about anyway since it’s 2025. 

It’s entirely possible that these two guys, who had very thin resumes to begin with, were evaluated by the FO and found to be in over their heads. Happens all the time. 

I’d bet most current head coaches had previous OC/DC/assistant HC experience at least for a couple seasons before being hired as head coach. 

[TheLeviathan]

3 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

Yeah but like I said, context matters. If you’re going to allege that racism drives these firings, then you have to explain Houston being responsible for firing 2 of those 5 guys before hiring a third black coach. It’s too easy to just say old white nfl owners are racist and give no context at all. Remember with pierce, the raiders players wanted him to have the interim tag removed and the team had just left a popular interim coach leave before signing Josh McDaniels. They had a good finish to last year. Then the Adams situation the on field play. Doesn’t sound like it was a plan to let Pierce be cannon fodder because mark davis is a secret racist. Same thing with the patriots situation. Hard for me to believe Robert Kraft was playing the long game to hide his racism. Progress is being made across the league, but some time individual years are just a disaster especially behind the scenes.

What context do you need?  Someone standing up at a press conference saying they hate black people while they twirl their mustache?

Remember - in 10 years....10 years!!! - we came up with a grand total of about 12-15 black men who got hired as head coaches.  Of those rare few who got a chance, a third of them didn't even get a second year.  This is a sport which is predominantly played by black men.  Yet the vast majority of leaders are white.

Sometimes racism isn't overt.  It's just so engrained in the system that no one is even aware they are taking part in it.  The NFL and their head coaches (quarterbacks too) are monuments to this IMO.

[nicksaviking]

*****Moderator Note*****

This discussion is starting to stray far from the topic. Let's get back to it.

[Aggies7]

Mike McCarthy….you’re fiiiiiiiiiiired

[nicksaviking]

I don't much care for McCarthy, but Jerry Jones is stupid, spiteful and doesn't care about winning. 

Jerk move trying to force McCarthy's hand and I'm glad it backfired. So far only one team hired a HC, I'm sure Jones was hoping all of them would leaving McCarthy to have to decide to take what was probably Jones' lowball offer.