Article: Gibson Gets the Call

[jokin]

I thought Gibson should have been up a few weeks ago. But that's just my opinion. Showing a bit of prudence does not equal incompetence.

 

Back on point, Gibson starts on Saturday. This is what we all wanted and complaining that the team didn't play musical chairs with one of the worst hitters in baseball history is facepalm-worthy.

 

Again, please address this remark to the person that made it, don't conflate everyone into your opening statement. You specifically said "C'mon people." One person went on about Butera and yet you said that all "the complaining around here was getting tiresome." People have been banned for less on this board.

 

And again, not "incompetence", other than thrylos and a very few others, no one's advocating that absolutist positon....

 

but "ultra-cautious", "misguided", "risk-averse", "obfuscating", "outmoded", "frugal" "thrifty" and "cheap" work pretty well.

 

For me it comes down to this. It's a matter of tastes. I'd rather a mistake made on the side of what Rizzo and Duquette are willing to risk than what Ryan is not willing to risk.

[Brad Swanson]

so, for those of us who know the name and heard the hype but thats about it, what does Gibson throw? What is a realistic expectation going forward?

 

Good fastball, 90-92, hits 95. Great slider, good change. Good control, improving command. Number 2 upside. Sound fair, everyone?

[jokin]

What are you saying. You're just not happy unless you're miserable? Makes total sense.

 

I can see why you're being sarcastic, because you have totally misconstrued what my post stated. Well done. As I stated in my previous post, I want my club, that has been among the worst in all of baseball going on three years, to show a little more urgency and be willing to take on small risks like promoting guys that offer a legitimate way out of this mess a little sooner, rather than a little later. If this was Oakland or Tampa, with no fan base or revenue streams locked in, the expectations would logically be adjusted accordingly. Is it that hard to understand this basic concept?--- because you completely missed it.

[jokin]

Good fastball, 90-92, hits 95. Great slider, good change. Good control, improving command. Number 2 upside. Sound fair, everyone?

 

I think it can't be said enough....NOW is the time for patience......

 

let's really be fair and see how he responds to this new challenge and give him plenty of room to grow.

[cmathewson]

I can see why you're being sarcastic, because you have totally misconstrued what my post stated. Well done. As I stated in my previous post, I want my club, that has been among the worst in all of baseball going on three years, to show a little more urgency and be willing to take on small risks like promoting guys that offer a legitimate way out of this mess a little sooner, rather than a little later. If this was Oakland or Tampa, with no fan base or revenue streams locked in, the expectations would logically be adjusted accordingly. Is it that hard to understand this basic concept?--- because you completely missed it.

 

It was a joke. You know, humor, Ar Ar.

[Brad Swanson]

I think it can't be said enough....NOW is the time for patience......

 

let's really be fair and see how he responds to this new challenge and give him plenty of room to grow.

 

Yes, I'd say the number 2 upside is 2-3 years from now. He should be a good pitcher right now. He might be a bit inconsistent, which I am not stating in an effort to be snarky. It's just true of most rookies.

[jokin]

Yes, I'd say the number 2 upside is 2-3 years from now. He should be a good pitcher right now. He might be a bit inconsistent, which I am not stating in an effort to be snarky. It's just true of most rookies.

 

I didn't think you were being at all snarky. This board tends to go completely from one extreme to the other. I fully expect Gibson to have a couple rocky outings (or more), despite what ends up getting posted after his first or second bad outing, as you said, it would be true of most rookies. I'm pumped, no matter how this plays out, pitching success or failure, innings-restricted and shut down, or not. The whole point in getting him up here for major league innings is that:

 

1) with all his hard work he's put in to come back, he's earned it, big time.

2) the whole point of this season was preparing for, and determing the future course of the franchise, he's slated for a big part of that future.

3) the more big league innings he puts in now, the more he has to build on in the offseason and next year, hopefully moving up your timeline towards #2 SP status.

[glunn]

I am glad that Gibson is getting his chance.

 

This thread highlights the fact that there will always be conflict between fans who sincerely and passionately believe that the front office is incompetent and fans who sincerely and passionately believe that the front office is competent.

 

It understand that some of the comments about bringing up a position player could be upsetting to members who just want to celebrate the good news. At the moment, I personally would rather not have my celebration interrupted by more complaining about the FO. However, I have read the TD policy MANY times and unless complaining about the FO rises to the level of trolling, and so long as the complainers are respectful, I believe that we need to be tolerant of complaining.

 

I believe that tolerance for the "complaining" of others is very important, because it seems to me that both sides of this debate are sincere. Some of our most intelligent and articulate members appear to sincerely believe that the FO has made many major mistakes that they deserve strong criticism. Often, I disagree with these criticizers and get tired of their posts. But on balance I am glad that they are here. The criticizers keep us all honest by bringing up points that might otherwise be ignored. I would ask only that we all make a renewed effort to be respectful, keeping in mind that we are all fans of the same team.

[jokin]

I am glad that Gibson is getting his chance.

 

This thread highlights the fact that there will always be conflict between fans who sincerely and passionately believe that the front office is incompetent and fans who sincerely and passionately believe that the front office is competent.

 

It understand that some of the comments about bringing up a position player could be upsetting to members who just want to celebrate the good news. At the moment, I personally would rather not have my celebration interrupted by more complaining about the FO. However, I have read the TD policy MANY times and unless complaining about the FO rises to the level of trolling, and so long as the complainers are respectful, I believe that we need to be tolerant of complaining.

 

I believe that tolerance for the "complaining" of others is very important, because it seems to me that both sides of this debate are sincere. Some of our most intelligent and articulate members appear to sincerely believe that the FO has made many major mistakes that they deserve strong criticism. Often, I disagree with these criticizers and get tired of their posts. But on balance I am glad that they are here. The criticizers keep us all honest by bringing up points that might otherwise be ignored. I would ask only that we all make a renewed effort to be respectful, keeping in mind that we are all fans of the same team.

 

I hereby nominate this post for the #1 position on the TD Wall of Fame.

[Craig Arko]

I'm not affected by most of the complaining. Instead there's a lot of "This message is hidden because person xyz is on your ignore list." Sometimes whole pages full.

 

Tolerance has a best friend.

 

My real concern is that if the owners of the site get too aggravated, the Off switch is usually pretty easy to find and push.

[Top Gun]

Twins just want to put asses in the seats.

[Thegrin]

For all of you that think Gibson is going to pitch like an Ace, you are going to be very disappointed. I would be overjoyed if Gibson pitched as well, and got the kind of results that Diamond did in 2012. and we will only have him for 10 to 12 outings, due to the pitch limit. Rookie starting pitchers almost always are inconsistent.

[jokin]

For all of you that think Gibson is going to pitch like an Ace, you are going to be very disappointed. I would be overjoyed if Gibson pitched as well, and got the kind of results that Diamond did in 2012. and we will only have him for 10 to 12 outings, due to the pitch limit. Rookie starting pitchers almost always are inconsistent.

 

Everything you suggest is quite possible, perhaps probable, except, it seems highly unlikely that the circumspect Twins will offer anything close to the opportunity for Gibson to make 10-12 starts.

 

And what makes you think there's a legion of green-eyeshade-wearers that are expecting an Ace right out of the box? I haven't read one post yet that has made or suggested that claim.

[cmathewson]

For all of you that think Gibson is going to pitch like an Ace, you are going to be very disappointed. I would be overjoyed if Gibson pitched as well, and got the kind of results that Diamond did in 2012. and we will only have him for 10 to 12 outings, due to the pitch limit. Rookie starting pitchers almost always are inconsistent.

 

It will be more like 6-8 outings, assuming he averages 6 innings a start. He's at 92 2/3 innings now, so 6 outings will put him at around 130 innings.

[Badsmerf]

I'm not affected by most of the complaining. Instead there's a lot of "This message is hidden because person xyz is on your ignore list." Sometimes whole pages full.

 

Tolerance has a best friend.

 

 

My real concern is that if the owners of the site get too aggravated, the Off switch is usually pretty easy to find and push.

Am I on your ignore list? I didn't know those even existed. Now I'm wondering how many people have me on their list and if everybody hates me.

[Thegrin]

I was thinking they might let him throw about 160 innings. Isn't that what Strasburg had when they shut him down ?

 

Now we can watch him. We can compare his outtings to the other Twins starters. We can see for ourselves what he's got. That is what I am looking forward to.

[Badsmerf]

I'm going to suggest that he finishes the season with the best ERA of any of the starting pitchers. I might just be too excited for a talented pitcher to be on the mound for the Twins again, but I don't think he is going to struggle as much as suggested.

[TheLeviathan]

It will be more like 6-8 outings, assuming he averages 6 innings a start. He's at 92 2/3 innings now, so 6 outings will put him at around 130 innings.

 

I think we'll find out very early here if they have him on a pitch count or innings limit how much we'll see of him. If it's very liberal at the start, maybe we'll see him get as many as 150-160. Anything more than that I think is highly unlikely.

[jokin]

I was thinking they might let him throw about 160 innings. Isn't that what Strasburg had when they shut him down ?

 

Now we can watch him. We can compare his outtings to the other Twins starters. We can see for ourselves what he's got. That is what I am looking forward to.

 

Some on this thread would probably suggest that the Twins letting Gibbie throw 160 innings wouldn't be prudent. Given that he pitched in the Arizona Fall League, I think some level of caution is probably in order. Obviously, the more innings he can safely get under his belt, without a risk for a setback with his arm, the better.

[twinsnorth49]

Touche'

 

You could feel the "I told you so" knives getting sharpened when Sano struggled coming out of the gate in New Britain. Hopefully, these same types won't "tut-tut" if Gibson's first few outings go like some of Gausman's have gone.

 

They will, trust me, they will.

[twinsnorth49]

Am I on your ignore list? I didn't know those even existed. Now I'm wondering how many people have me on their list and if everybody hates me.

 

I'd let you know, but I'm busy ignoring you.

[stringer bell]

I am celebrating the Gibson recall. I just drank a Diet Coke! This thread is interesting, of course, but I wouldn't have minded seeing Herrmann recalled for the Marlin series if there is any question about Doumit's ankle, that just makes sense. I don't have highest expectations for Kyle, but he will get lots of ground balls and he will miss bats. If the command is there, I think he will do well more often than not.

[twinsnorth49]

He's up, I'm happy, he should have been up sooner, but he's up......kumbaya.

[twinsnorth49]

This thread went off the rails when "Son of Sal" was mentioned......I blame him.

[stringer bell]

This thread went off the rails when "Son of Sal" was mentioned......I blame him.

They should change the lyrics of the "South Park" song from "Blame Canada" to "Blame Butera"!

[Brock Beauchamp]

Again, please address this remark to the person that made it, don't conflate everyone into your opening statement. You specifically said "C'mon people." One person went on about Butera and yet you said that all "the complaining around here was getting tiresome." People have been banned for less on this board.

 

If I post something like that, it's a nice way of me saying "I'm really tired of hearing Comment A or B." And if I'm tired of hearing it, you can bet money that other users and admins are tired of hearing it as well.

 

The persistent negativity is a problem and we're getting plenty of complaints about it (on top of the admin crew being extremely tired of seeing the same peoples' names pop up time and time again in the user report log). Users can either tone it down and stop dragging down nearly every thread on this forum or we can start handing out bans. Those are the two options. We all have plenty to do, we don't enjoy spending our free time playing the role of nanny.

 

It's fine to disagree with the front office. We all do it. But if someone's post count is 80% (or higher) in the negative, they should re-evaluate their attitude and why they post the things they do on the board. As site owners, we have to start thinking about the overall health of the site and persistently negative posters do far more damage to the forums than they do good.

 

(this is not necessarily aimed at you, jokin... it's a statement to the board at large)

[TRex]

The other nice thing about the 'Ignore list' is that it is really easy to click on (and read) posts by ignored posters in threads where there is a decreased chance of ranting... this is how I found out that jokin really has some insightful thoughts and is a very valuable community member!

 

Just one more thing... does anyone know how to ignore posts replying to people on the 'Ignore list'? On a thread like this where someone replies to almost every post, I end up seeing most of the posts I hoped to ignore anyway!

 

PS to Badsmurf: you had a really great run of posts ~6 months ago, so I admitted I was wrong and took you off my 'Ignore list'.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Just one more thing... does anyone know how to ignore posts replying to people on the 'Ignore list'? On a thread like this where someone replies to almost every post, I end up seeing most of the posts I hoped to ignore anyway!

 

No, there isn't a way of doing that. The reply system basically copies the text of the original post and places it into the editing window. At that point, the post content stops being tied to the original poster (who is on your ignore list) and that content is now "possessed" by the responding poster.

 

If that makes sense. I'm not really sure how to explain how databases work without going into long and terribly boring exposition.

[gil4]

He got called up!! Can we just be happy?

 

I think there's a rule against that here.

[IdahoPilgrim]

No, there isn't a way of doing that. The reply system basically copies the text of the original post and places it into the editing window. At that point, the post content stops being tied to the original poster (who is on your ignore list) and that content is now "possessed" by the responding poster.

 

If that makes sense. I'm not really sure how to explain how databases work without going into long and terribly boring exposition.

 

I've been wondering if it is possible/advisable to turn off the "reply with quote" feature. I've notice that when a forum thread derails, it is often because a few people are replying back and forth to each other. It gets personal and sometimes passions get the better of us. Without that feature, people could still post their thoughts, and there would still be some negativity and critiquing (some justified, some not) but there might be less "egging each other on." Just a thought, and maybe the software doesn't allow that.