Time to Send Parmelee Down

[Willihammer]

I'm going to trademark this one as "The D.R.S. Talking-To."

 

Do you give this same motivational speech on a full-time basis in another venue? Where do I sign my kids up? The "DRS" is back in the house!

 

[video=youtube;Adp-zuOcco0]

[Brock Beauchamp]

What happens in 2014?

 

You've given the guy 500+ PAs. You know whether you need a first baseman or not.

[twinsnorth49]

What happens in 2014?

 

If they've shown they can't play (Dozier, Parmelee), you spend the off season trying to figure it out (one can dream can't they?), as opposed to realizing it during next season with nowhere to turn.

 

In a season like this there is very little reason to be finding a way to put Doumit in the lineup over Parmelee,

[jokin]

If they've shown they can't play (Dozier, Parmelee), you spend the off season trying to figure it out (one can dream can't they?), as opposed to realizing it during next season with nowhere to turn.

 

In a season like this there is very little reason to be finding a way to put Doumit in the lineup over Parmelee,

 

Except that the Twins are on the hook for Dooms in 2014 for $3.5M and the club demonstrated by his extension that they are clearly enamored with his presence as Mauer insurance and Gardy at cross-purposes with a franchise supposedly in rebuilding mode.

[PseudoSABR]

Willihammer's motivational speech works, evidently. And really, it takes some dudes time to figure it out. How long did it take Cuddyer to get right in the big leagues? Even Morneau took a minute.

 

The notion that you give up on a first round draft pick that's shown success (though not sustainable) at both lower levels and even major league in puffs seems foolish. You ride it out, until dude gets expensive. Maybe sending Parm down is part of the solution, but I don't quite see it, unless it's just at bats he needs to get better (but I doubt it's that simple).

[Willihammer]

You've given the guy 500+ PAs. You know whether you need a first baseman or not.

 

He's had 500+ PAs.

[Benchwarmerjim]

if the Twins send down Parmelee, who do they call up to rot away on the bench?

[Riverbrian]

I typically give Gardy the benefit of the doubt but...

 

Gardy is screwing up here in my opinion.

 

1. If the lefty trio of Sale, Danks and Kazmir is gonna keep the lefty Parmelee on the bench. Look ahead at that lefty trio on your schedule and don't bench Parmelee for the Righty Axelrod before the lefty trio.

 

2. Parmelee is the best defensive OF of the bunch. Doumit and Willingham are (in my opinion) significant steps down defensively. If Doumit and Willingham deserve more playing time than Parmelee... They better hit a ton better... They ain't hitting a ton better.

 

3. Parmelee splits do not suggest that he should be benched against lefties and we play a lot of lefties against lefties.

 

4. Rotation... With a sensible rotation... Nobody has to rot on the bench for 4 game stretches. Nobody at all.

 

5. Who? On this team... Is playing well enough for automatic everyday starts. Mauer... And?

 

6. 5 points above that have nothing to do with Parm needing to play because 2013 doesn't matter or his two home runs last night.

 

Gardy mistreated Parm last year with absurd bench time as well.

 

There has to be a Parm negative that is overshadowing Parm positives in someone's eyes.

[Willihammer]

5. Who? On this team... Is playing well enough for automatic everyday starts. Mauer... And?

In descending order of OPS: Arcia, Hammer, Morneau, Doumit.

 

Morneau leads the team in RBI with only 3 home runs because the guy hitting in front of him gets on base. Hammer needs to start everyday.

 

Arcia is making a bid for RoY. He needs to start everyday.

 

Morneau hits better than Parmelee and I'll go ahead and assume he plays a better 1B also. He needs to play everyday.

 

Doumit's hitting about identically to Parmelee at the moment but has a better track record. More importantly, Doumit's the backup catcher, so he's not going anywhere.

 

Parmelee OPSed at .820 in 3000 minor league PAs. He's OPSing .744 after 506 MLB PAs. Seems about right to me.

[Riverbrian]

In descending order of OPS: Arcia, Hammer, Morneau, Doumit.

 

Morneau leads the team in RBI with only 3 home runs because the guy hitting in front of him gets on base. Hammer needs to start everyday.

 

Arcia is making a bid for RoY. He needs to start everyday.

 

Morneau hits better than Parmelee and I'll go ahead and assume he plays a better 1B also. He needs to play everyday.

 

Doumit's hitting about identically to Parmelee at the moment but has a better track record. More importantly, Doumit's the backup catcher, so he's not going anywhere.

 

Parmelee OPSed at .820 in 3000 minor league PAs. He's OPSing .744 after 506 MLB PAs. Seems about right to me.

 

It takes one seat on the bench every 5 days. That isn't taxing for anyone.

 

Hammer shouldn't be playing every day. His OPS isn't high enough to justify a hard benching of Parm. I'm not saying Parm should put hammer on the bench. I'm saying share the load.

 

No Twins player has the stats this year to support any player suffering.

[jorgenswest]

Most people liked the move of extending Doumit last summer.

 

A few wrote about the certain decline and poor defense certain to decline also. They had a team control option in Parmelee and could have spent the same money or much less on back up catcher who can defend in the offseason.

 

Now the Twins are committed to Doumit through 2014. He is playing in the field way too often. They don't get either Parmelee or Arcia the plate appearances to develop.

 

Doumit is valuable in the role of DH/bench bat/emergency third catcher. If the Twins can't move him, they have to plan for him to have that role next year.

 

The decision to extend him last summer may have been reasonable, but the way they choose to use him this year is not.

 

The Twins must move Willingham or Doumit and plan the other to DH soon.

[Brock Beauchamp]

He's had 500+ PAs.

Spreading a season's worth of PAs over three seasons doesn't tell you much about the player.

[greengoblinrulz]

I typically give Gardy the benefit of the doubt but...

 

Gardy is screwing up here in my opinion.

 

1. If the lefty trio of Sale, Danks and Kazmir is gonna keep the lefty Parmelee on the bench. Look ahead at that lefty trio on your schedule and don't bench Parmelee for the Righty Axelrod before the lefty trio.

 

2. Parmelee is the best defensive OF of the bunch. Doumit and Willingham are (in my opinion) significant steps down defensively. If Doumit and Willingham deserve more playing time than Parmelee... They better hit a ton better... They ain't hitting a ton better.

 

3. Parmelee splits do not suggest that he should be benched against lefties and we play a lot of lefties against lefties.

 

4. Rotation... With a sensible rotation... Nobody has to rot on the bench for 4 game stretches. Nobody at all.

 

5. Who? On this team... Is playing well enough for automatic everyday starts. Mauer... And?

 

6. 5 points above that have nothing to do with Parm needing to play because 2013 doesn't matter or his two home runs last night.

 

Gardy mistreated Parm last year with absurd bench time as well.

 

There has to be a Parm negative that is overshadowing Parm positives in someone's eyes.

im not a big gardy fan for this reasoning....

[Willihammer]

Spreading a season's worth of PAs over three seasons doesn't tell you much about the player.

 

Well what is it then. If not the 3000 minor league PAs, or the 500 MLB ones, then how many PAs over what period of time, in what league will it take to convince you (or anyone) what Parmelee's true talent level is?

[Willihammer]

Hammer shouldn't be playing every day. His OPS isn't high enough to justify a hard benching of Parm.

 

Sure it is. Its better versus lefthanders, its better versus righthanders. By about .100 points.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Well what is it then. If not the 3000 minor league PAs, or the 500 MLB ones, then how many PAs over what period of time, in what league will it take to convince you (or anyone) what Parmelee's true talent level is?

 

At best, I think Parmelee has an outside shot at being a productive every day first baseman. But I'm patient enough to give him one legitimate shot to prove he can do it, especially on a team that has no legitimate first base prospects coming before 2015.

 

And FYI, his career OPS+ is 104. Let's not pretend like this is some cut and dry case of a guy posting an OPS+ of 70 over his first 500 PAs.

[Riverbrian]

Sure it is. Its better versus lefthanders, its better versus righthanders. By about .100 points.

 

Hammer .750

Parmelee .697

 

It is better. But not enough to kill Parm.

[Guest USAFChief]

Most people liked the move of extending Doumit last summer.

 

A few wrote about the certain decline and poor defense certain to decline also. They had a team control option in Parmelee and could have spent the same money or much less on back up catcher who can defend in the offseason.

 

Now the Twins are committed to Doumit through 2014. He is playing in the field way too often. They don't get either Parmelee or Arcia the plate appearances to develop.

 

Doumit is valuable in the role of DH/bench bat/emergency third catcher. If the Twins can't move him, they have to plan for him to have that role next year.

 

The decision to extend him last summer may have been reasonable, but the way they choose to use him this year is not.

 

The Twins must move Willingham or Doumit and plan the other to DH soon.

 

I'm confused by the obsession some people have with getting Doumit out of the Twins lineup.

 

He's a pretty darn good second catcher, who can also provide decent DH time and a not terrible option as a part time RFer.

 

He's a better hitter today than Parmelee, and chances are pretty good he'll be a better hitter over the next couple years, IMO.

 

Doumit is not the problem with the Twins, nor is Willingham, for that matter. Parmelee wants more time? Earn it. He's 26, with plenty of minor league ABs to develop under his belt. It's not like he's some 21 yr old riding the pine.

[Willihammer]

And FYI, his career OPS+ is 104. Let's not pretend like this is some cut and dry case of a guy posting an OPS+ of 70 over his first 500 PAs.

If Parmelee could catch, then sure league average would be fine and I'd definitely play him instead of Doumit. But we're talking about 1B here. Whatever your plan is for 2014, it shouldn't involve a league average bat at 1B. We'd be better off sticking Mauer there and catching Doumit.

[Willihammer]

Hammer .750

Parmelee .697

 

It is better. But not enough to kill Parm.

 

I'm just not willing to punt at bats or fractions of at-bats just to pound the point home that Parmelee is clearly the lesser hitter.

[Brock Beauchamp]

If Parmelee could catch, then sure league average would be fine and I'd definitely play him instead of Doumit. But we're talking about 1B here. Whatever your plan is for 2014, it shouldn't involve a league average bat at 1B. We'd be better off sticking Mauer there and catching Doumit.

 

You're assuming that Parmelee has no chance of improving. I don't think he will but in a lost season, it sure doesn't hurt to know for sure.

 

Also, Doumit as an everyday catcher is an awful idea.

[Willihammer]

You're assuming that Parmelee has no chance of improving. I don't think he will but in a lost season, it sure doesn't hurt to know for sure.

 

Also, Doumit as an everyday catcher is an awful idea.

 

Parmelee as an everyday 1B is a worse idea, hence my use of the word "better."

[Riverbrian]

I'm just not willing to punt at bats or fractions of at-bats just to pound the point home that Parmelee is clearly the lesser hitter.

 

Thats funny. I don't agree... But I like the way you said it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Parmelee as an everyday 1B is a worse idea, hence my use of the word "better."

 

No, it's not. Not even close. The defensive drop off would be enormous.

 

What do you feel the Twins have to lose by playing Parmelee? 71 wins instead of 73? Who cares?

[Kwak]

It seems the Twins are forced to play Morneau and Willingham regularly through July in hopes of making a useful trade. But starting in August, time to clean house and go with youth. Protect Gardy's job by playing veterans in hope of more wins? These veterans aren't any more likely to win than the present youth on the active roster. And Gardy's job? Whew, that's a whole 'nother thread.

[jokin]

I'm just not willing to punt at bats or fractions of at-bats just to pound the point home that Parmelee is clearly the lesser hitter.

 

The Willihammer with yet another "DRS" pep talk for Parm. Could you make this an everyday occurrence when Parmelee is in the lineup?- your method seems to work well.

[orangevening]

I would put money on TR not trading anyone. Wish I'm wrong because our roster is unbalanced but I don't see it.

[jimbo92107]

No, Parmelee needs to be packaged with one or two of the Twins players to upgrade the prospects we receive in return. If the Twins set up the expectation that Parmelee has no value, he will not be good for us.

 

You're underestimating the discernment of other teams. They have a pretty good idea what kind of player Parmelee is, just like we do. He's a fairly good RF/1B, with a diminishing possibility to someday develop into a decent power hitter, maybe 25 homers per year. Good arm, smart fielder, doesn't tend to land on the DL. If he develops into a star at this point, count me as one of the shocked, but he's a dependable player with average skills. Yeah, he'd be worth something in a trade package, and with several good outfielders and 1B's rising through the minors, his stay on the Twins should be short term.

[Willihammer]

No, it's not. Not even close. The defensive drop off would be enormous.

 

Really, can you quantify that? Because I'm confident that we'd be looking at around .130 points of OPS drop at 1B playing Parmelee instead of Mauer. Parmelee has 3500 professional at bats to back that confidence up.

[Kwak]

Really, can you quantify that? Because I'm confident that we'd be looking at around .130 points of OPS drop at 1B playing Parmelee instead of Mauer. Parmelee has 3500 professional at bats to back that confidence up.

I have no idea why you think it's a Mauer vs. Parmalee in the lineup. Mauer always hits. His preferred position is Catcher, both by him and by the Twins. Parmalee rates to be the RF more than 1B. If there is "competition" it is between Parmalee and Doumit and a comparison between them both offensively and defensively at RF is in order--Mauer isn't in the analysis.