Make It Official! Twins 6, Royals 5: Ryan Dominates, Young Sluggers Blast Off for Big Win

[JD-TWINS]

9 hours ago, stringer bell said:

Optimistic take. I don't fault a back foot curve ball, keep it out of the whomp 'em zone and quite possibly end the game. Every once in a while, it hits a foot. 

The Twins haven't had the back end whole yet this year. I guess that is the way it goes with all the pitching injuries in baseball. If they could get all three and add two or three from those mentioned, they have a very good bullpen. It is true that Funderburk hasn't emerged and Jackson was disappointing, but there still are plenty of arms available. Relief pitchers are so hard to predict and project.

He doesn’t throw a slider which is the “back foot” pitch..….his curve is supposed to break downward and not 1.5 feet to the left…..he didn’t release it & pulled the pitch into the batter’s box, so wildly it hit the guy’s front foot. Regardless, it’s the pitch (curve) that got hit out of the park twice in the same weekend to end games. He’s pitching to their absolute worst hitter and is up with an 0-2 count…..the guy had no chance. Seems somebody wants to look cool by fooling hitters with his curve v. just getting outs effectively. The batter is hitting 20 points less than Margot - you CAN’T hit him!!!

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, mikelink45 said:

I hope you are right.  But during our last streak of losses the BP has not been the strength we hoped for.

 

Agreed, not as strong as it should/could be.

Duran gave up game losing HR’s twice on his curveball…….,am hoping these were more of an outlier.

Jackson, in 6 appearances from May 5 to May 18 he had 4 games in which he gave up 2 runs - 3 runs - 2 runs - 4 runs. He’s no longer an option and that should help some.

[bean5302]

13 hours ago, arby58 said:

Given the Rays are currently 23rd in MLB in ERA (and have a losing record), my guess is their fans would be ecstatic to have Ryan in their rotation.

You're missing the point.

In any case, I expect Ryan will turn right back into a pumpkin like he always does. Makes some adjustments, scouting reports lag behind, hitters adapt, Ryan gets destroyed. Rinse, repeat. It is impressive Ryan is able to keep finding magic tricks that work for a couple months, though. I've got zero faith in Ryan ever being more than a back end guy.

 

[jmlease1]

Joe Ryan was terrific. 7 innings, only 4 hits, no walks, and kept it in the park. Really good to see him finishing off hitters effectively. In his last 4 starts he's put up his highest 3 Game Scores of the season. He's really throwing well right now, and having an excellent season. He's gotten into the 6th in every single start this season, only had one start all year where he's yielded more than 1 free pass too. He's really fun to watch. I hope he can sustain this kind of run; he's been worse in the second half of the season so far in his career. But that also includes last year's muck up where he tried to pitch through an injury, and I suspect he's learned not to try and hide something like that again.

Nice to see Larnach slam one out; he'd been scuffling after a hit start, so it'll be interesting to see if this gets him back on track. Miranda's bomb was a no-doubter too and he's definitely making the case to stick around after Royce returns.

 

[madtowntwin]

"Destroyed" & "Magic Tricks" Bean?? Did you watch the game? Joe was touching 96 / 97 mph - Where did that come from??

Like Bailey - He tends to live at the top of the zone and when he has any semblance of consistency at the bottom he can be a very problematic plate appearance for any hitter....If that velocity and bottom zone control is sustainable we could be looking at a "Pitching  Prince" rather than "Pumpkin."!! 

Let's also hope that the Royals used all of their "Magic Bullets" in the first game....Duck snorts, elusive infield grounders, and frustrating foot foul balls....Yikes.

Win Twins!!

[arby58]

2 hours ago, bean5302 said:

You're missing the point.

In any case, I expect Ryan will turn right back into a pumpkin like he always does. Makes some adjustments, scouting reports lag behind, hitters adapt, Ryan gets destroyed. Rinse, repeat. It is impressive Ryan is able to keep finding magic tricks that work for a couple months, though. I've got zero faith in Ryan ever being more than a back end guy.

 

"The point"" is here and now. Here and now the Rays would benefit from having Ryan, and suggesting it's ok because they MIGHT churn out another talented pitcher is just a rationalization of a bad trade for them.

Did you watch yesterday's game? I did - Ryan overpowered a line-up that is second in the AL (and fourth in all of MLB) in runs scored. He threw harder than ever, and he was efficient as well - 9 Ks no walks. Rationalize that away.

[bean5302]

2 hours ago, madtowntwin said:

"Destroyed" & "Magic Tricks" Bean?? Did you watch the game? Joe was touching 96 / 97 mph - Where did that come from??

Like Bailey - He tends to live at the top of the zone and when he has any semblance of consistency at the bottom he can be a very problematic plate appearance for any hitter....If that velocity and bottom zone control is sustainable we could be looking at a "Pitching  Prince" rather than "Pumpkin."!! 

Let's also hope that the Royals used all of their "Magic Bullets" in the first game....Duck snorts, elusive infield grounders, and frustrating foot foul balls....Yikes.

Win Twins!!

I watched the last couple of seasons. Ryan comes out, pitches well early, Twins fans lose their minds and declare Ryan an elite playoff starter in the making, then the league adjusts to Ryan's changes. That's what I've seen.

First 50% starts vs. Second 50% ERA
2022 - 2.99 vs. 4.14
2023 - 2.98 vs. 6.62

[bean5302]

1 hour ago, arby58 said:

"The point"" is here and now. Here and now the Rays would benefit from having Ryan, and suggesting it's ok because they MIGHT churn out another talented pitcher is just a rationalization of a bad trade for them.

Did you watch yesterday's game? I did - Ryan overpowered a line-up that is second in the AL (and fourth in all of MLB) in runs scored. He threw harder than ever, and he was efficient as well - 9 Ks no walks. Rationalize that away.

The point is the Rays are the premier pitching development team in MLB. The model every team wishes they could follow successfully, a team whose made the playoffs 5 consecutive years, and made the World Series in 2020 despite playing in arguably the toughest division in baseball year in and year out. The Rays get beaten in trades sometimes, and the Joe Ryan trade was one of those times. Joe Ryan was a steal for Nelson Cruz, but considering the Rays churn out a Joe Ryan like every year, it's probably not absolutely eating them up. Now, for the Twins, who draft and develop 1 Joe Ryan every 10 years, it'd be a much bigger loss.

[arby58]

4 hours ago, bean5302 said:

The point is the Rays are the premier pitching development team in MLB. The model every team wishes they could follow successfully, a team whose made the playoffs 5 consecutive years, and made the World Series in 2020 despite playing in arguably the toughest division in baseball year in and year out. The Rays get beaten in trades sometimes, and the Joe Ryan trade was one of those times. Joe Ryan was a steal for Nelson Cruz, but considering the Rays churn out a Joe Ryan like every year, it's probably not absolutely eating them up. Now, for the Twins, who draft and develop 1 Joe Ryan every 10 years, it'd be a much bigger loss.

You should take this rap to a Rays discussion board and ask their fans if they think it was 'no big deal' that they basically gave away what is now a starting pitcher with an ERA under 3.

Just as the first thing you learn in investing is that past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results, I'm not buying into the first half/second half theory to explain Ryan this year. As he admitted, he was injured last year and tried to play through it - that was dumb, but it helps to explain his performance. Second, he IS throwing harder this year on his fast ball, and he is actually throwing it less often - which was probably part of the 'catch up' in previous years.

This idea that it takes the league time to catch up doesn't make a lot of sense - they have tape of every game he pitches, they shouldn't need volumes of his work to 'catch up' if that is what they are able to do. Mowing down the hot-hitting Royals yesterday was impressive - I get the impression you didn't actually watch the game. 

[bean5302]

42 minutes ago, arby58 said:

You should take this rap to a Rays discussion board and ask their fans if they think it was 'no big deal' that they basically gave away what is now a starting pitcher with an ERA under 3.

Just as the first thing you learn in investing is that past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results, I'm not buying into the first half/second half theory to explain Ryan this year. As he admitted, he was injured last year and tried to play through it - that was dumb, but it helps to explain his performance. Second, he IS throwing harder this year on his fast ball, and he is actually throwing it less often - which was probably part of the 'catch up' in previous years.

This idea that it takes the league time to catch up doesn't make a lot of sense - they have tape of every game he pitches, they shouldn't need volumes of his work to 'catch up' if that is what they are able to do. Mowing down the hot-hitting Royals yesterday was impressive - I get the impression you didn't actually watch the game. 

I went to a couple Rays Fan sites. I did some searching. Didn't find much about Joe Ryan bellyaching.

[USAFChief]

37 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

I went to a couple Rays Fan sites. I did some searching. Didn't find much about Joe Ryan bellyaching.

There might be a few complaining about that trade. But a smart team makes that trade 100 times out of 100. TB was trying to win a WS.  I'd sure as hell hope the Twins would make that deal 100 times out of 100.

Flags fly forever. It's the entire point of MLB. Sometimes a minor leaguer works out down the line. So ******* what.

[stringer bell]

6 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

There might be a few complaining about that trade. But a smart team makes that trade 100 times out of 100. TB was trying to win a WS.  I'd sure as hell hope the Twins would make that deal 100 times out of 100.

Flags fly forever. It's the entire point of MLB. Sometimes a minor leaguer works out down the line. So ******* what.

Yep. The classic "trade for now" transaction was Doyle Alexander to the Tigers for a minor leaguer. Alexander was great for the Tigers (9-0 1.53 ERA) that year, but the Twins beat the Kitties in the playoffs. Oh BTW, the minor leaguer was John Smoltz, a future Hall of Famer.

[USAFChief]

3 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Yep. The classic "trade for now" transaction was Doyle Alexander to the Tigers for a minor leaguer. Alexander was great for the Tigers (9-0 1.53 ERA) that year, but the Twins beat the Kitties in the playoffs. Oh BTW, the minor leaguer was John Smoltz, a future Hall of Famer.

Yup.

And I remember Gaetti lighting up Alexander like a christmas tree.

Doesn't always work out, but you GOTTA make trades to help contenders.

[arby58]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

I went to a couple Rays Fan sites. I did some searching. Didn't find much about Joe Ryan bellyaching.

Now you have 'missed the point.' The request was 'ask them directly' which you didn't do. Of course they aren't going to be stirred up about a trade from years ago unless given the opportunity to comment on it