Vikings Offseason Thread

[Vanimal46]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'm even more sure I don't want McCarthy in round one. 

McCarthy needs to return to school. He’s not even close to ready. 

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

McCarthy needs to return to school. He’s not even close to ready. 

I can't believe anyone thinks he's the fourth, or even fifth, best QB in this draft. 

[Danchat]

7 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I can't believe anyone thinks he's the fourth, or even fifth, best QB in this draft. 

Who do you have over him? I'm seeing a variation of Penix, McCarthy and Nix for QBs #4-6 but I'm curious if you have any other names above McCarthy.

 

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, Danchat said:

Who do you have over him? I'm seeing a variation of Penix, McCarthy and Nix for QBs #4-6 but I'm curious if you have any other names above McCarthy.

 

Ewers maybe, Nix and Penix for sure.. Maybe the Oregon State guy.  There is no evidence McCarthy can carry a team with his arm.

[Vanimal46]

3 minutes ago, Danchat said:

Who do you have over him? I'm seeing a variation of Penix, McCarthy and Nix for QBs #4-6 but I'm curious if you have any other names above McCarthy.

 

1A/1B Williams and Maye

QB 3 Daniels

QB 4/5 Nix and Penix 

I think 3 QBs will be 1st round picks then if someone wants to throw a dart at Nix or Penix in the 30s so be it. 

[Mike Sixel]

19 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

1A/1B Williams and Maye

QB 3 Daniels

QB 4/5 Nix and Penix 

I think 3 QBs will be 1st round picks then if someone wants to throw a dart at Nix or Penix in the 30s so be it. 

That's my thought, but I've not seen enough of Maye and Daniels to order them. Daniels is intriguing to me, I'll admit

[Mike Sixel]

Maybe they should draft one of these punters!

[Danchat]

4 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Ewers maybe, Nix and Penix for sure.. Maybe the Oregon State guy.  There is no evidence McCarthy can carry a team with his arm.

OK... I'm not that high on Ewers, though I don't know if he's committed yet. The Oregon State QB already flunked out of Clemson last year and is in the transfer portal. I know there are some fans of Spencer Rattler. 

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, Danchat said:

OK... I'm not that high on Ewers, though I don't know if he's committed yet. The Oregon State QB already flunked out of Clemson last year and is in the transfer portal. I know there are some fans of Spencer Rattler. 

I must be thinking of someone else. I'm also not super high on ewers, as he's always hurt, but at least he can pass the ball when healthy. 

[Aggies7]

So I take it Penix didn’t do well? 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Holy cow. Kirk is not exactly sending mixed signals or playing his cards close. 

[Aggies7]

16 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Holy cow. Kirk is not exactly sending mixed signals or playing his cards close. 

Sounds like he’d rather stay. I mean, none of us can even comprehend what it’s like to have his type of money. But still, I’d have to imagine you get to a point where you just have so much money between your contract and your endorsements, are you going to haggle for a couple million more and risk moving to a place you don’t want to be? Especially when you’re older and have kids? Happens all the time to every day people, just on a much smaller scale. It’s not always about the dollars, and he’s become very marketable in recent years. Could take a contract discount and still earn a lot.

[nicksaviking]

I'll be the lone wolf in being interested in Ewers should he come out.

He's the one guy that you'd for sure want to marinate on the bench under a veteran though. I'd also like Nix, but only if he falls, because he's the one guy who I think won't hide the chip on his shoulder. A QB who wants to prove the league how wrong they were doesn't always work out, but when it does, you often get a world beater.

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I'll be the lone wolf in being interested in Ewers should he come out.

He's the one guy that you'd for sure want to marinate on the bench under a veteran though. I'd also like Nix, but only if he falls, because he's the one guy who I think won't hide the chip on his shoulder. A QB who wants to prove the league how wrong they were doesn't always work out, but when it does, you often get a world beater.

I'd deal down in round 1 and take Nix at around 15-18? Get a 2nd/3rd and 4th? If I take a QB round 1 though, I don't want Kirk here. Just roll the dice with the new guy and invest heavily in D and interior OL.

[Aggies7]

16 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'd deal down in round 1 and take Nix at around 15-18? Get a 2nd/3rd and 4th? If I take a QB round 1 though, I don't want Kirk here. Just roll the dice with the new guy and invest heavily in D and interior OL.

Why wouldn’t you want him here? He’s old enough where he’s not going to be around more than 2 years. I think the fad of throwing guys right into the fire has probably ruined more careers than it’s helped

[Mike Sixel]

16 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Why wouldn’t you want him here? He’s old enough where he’s not going to be around more than 2 years. I think the fad of throwing guys right into the fire has probably ruined more careers than it’s helped

If he's here, I want them trying to win NOW, not using early picks on a QB. Either play for now, or for the future. They don't have the draft capital to win by investing in two QBs (30 million a year for Kirk eats a lot of FA money, and they have one day 2 pick). Either sign Kirk and try to win, or move on. This middle ground is the worst plan.

Also, Stroud says hi. I don't think for one minute the top 3 QBs this year will sit around for more than a handful of games, if any. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

9 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

I think the fad of throwing guys right into the fire has probably ruined more careers than it’s helped

I totally agree with this.

I think I am back on the Kirk train now, and if the Vikings brain trust has identified a QB in this draft they like, they should trade up or down for that guy and let him hold the clipboard for Kirk for a couple years and let a third guy like Mullins, Hall or Dobbs be the “backup” until Kirk is done.

Also, don’t just draft a QB for the sake of drafting a QB. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Also, Stroud says hi. I don't think for one minute the top 3 QBs this year will sit around for more than a handful of games, if any. 

I would like to see an actual study on this. It feels like too many guys are thrown into the fire and it doesn’t work out. We watched the cheeseheads across the border let Rodgers hold the clipboard for Favre for years, then Love hold the clipboard for Rodgers for years. No QB issues over there. 

I don’t follow this like you, but the vibe I am getting now is that there are only a couple QBs in this draft that are really good bets, but maybe one of these higher gamble guys would turn out ok with a couple years of seasoning 

[Aggies7]

12 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

If he's here, I want them trying to win NOW, not using early picks on a QB. Either play for now, or for the future. They don't have the draft capital to win by investing in two QBs (30 million a year for Kirk eats a lot of FA money, and they have one day 2 pick). Either sign Kirk and try to win, or move on. This middle ground is the worst plan.

Also, Stroud says hi. I don't think for one minute the top 3 QBs this year will sit around for more than a handful of games, if any. 

Stroud can say hi after Bryce Young, Sam Howell, Will Levis and Desmond Ridder

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

I would like to see an actual study on this. It feels like too many guys are thrown into the fire and it doesn’t work out. We watched the cheeseheads across the border let Rodgers hold the clipboard for Favre for years, then Love hold the clipboard for Rodgers for years. No QB issues over there. 

I don’t follow this like you, but the vibe I am getting now is that there are only a couple QBs in this draft that are really good bets, but maybe one of these higher gamble guys would turn out ok with a couple years of seasoning 

Neither of those were top 5 picks....there is a difference for sure.

I don't feel that the Vikings are in position to sign Kirk, with this D, and draft a QB in round 1, and have a good team next year. Not with Hunter a FA and the D having like 4 even average starters. I could, of course, be wrong. They could get every move right and fix the D with one day 2 pick and having spent 30-40 million on Kirk, but that's going to require amazing work by a FO that hasn't shown anyting near that....

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, Aggies7 said:

Stroud can say hi after Sam Howell, Will Levis and Desmond Ridder

None of whom were top picks.

[Aggies7]

12 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

None of whom were top picks.

Bryce young was.  So was Zach Wilson, Trey lance, Daniel jones, Justin fields, Sam darnold. All top 10 thrown right in to the mix 

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, Aggies7 said:

Bryce young?

You can point to guys that don't work. That doesn't mean teams won't try it, which was what the post said. Guys don't work at every position in the game, in round 1 all the time. That doesn't mean teams wills stop starting them. Those are two very different things (also, that team is terrible and Young should never have been picked that high. He'd be 4th-6th best this year).

[Aggies7]

6 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

You can point to guys that don't work. That doesn't mean teams won't try it, which was what the post said. Guys don't work at every position in the game, in round 1 all the time. That doesn't mean teams wills stop starting them. Those are two very different things (also, that team is terrible and Young should never have been picked that high. He'd be 4th-6th best this year).

Except the quarterback position is between the ears probably more so than other positions. If you trash a guy’s confidence by putting him in when he’s not ready or putting him in on a bad team, then you could ruin the guy’s career. For every burrow and stroud, they are two Zach Wilsons and Mitch trubiskys (who was shockingly taken second overall). Even a guy like baker mayfield was thrown right into the fire and it wasn’t until this season (his 6th in the league) that he’s finally doing good things. 
 

You can’t treat the quarterback position like a left tackle or wide receiver. There’s too much responsibility and expectation. No one says we have to go out and get a franchise left tackle.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Aggies7 said:

Except the quarterback position is between the ears probably more so than other positions. If you trash a guy’s confidence by putting him when he’s not ready or putting him in on a bad team, then you could ruin the guy’s career. For every burrow and stroud, they are two Zach Wilsons and Mitch trubiskys (who was shockingly taken second overall). Even a guy like baker mayfield was thrown right into the fire and it wasn’t until this season (his 6th in the league) that he’s finally doing good things.

I think we'll disagree  here, and I'm ok with that. I don't think any of hte top 3 sit more than a few games (assuming health) if any games, in the coming year.

After that? Hard to say, since we don't know if they go to team with a viable option (or what else that team does/needs). 

[Aggies7]

19 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I think we'll disagree  here, and I'm ok with that. I don't think any of hte top 3 sit more than a few games (assuming health) if any games, in the coming year.

After that? Hard to say, since we don't know if they go to team with a viable option (or what else that team does/needs). 

What complicates the Kirk situation is that the Vikings aren’t totally devoid of talent. Defensively it’s definitely bad. But offensively they are easily a top ten unit with Kirk. Heck they even finished 10th this year with Kirk missing 9 games. Do you toss all that away and hope the new guy is competent? Or do you take someone, have them sit the bench for 2 years and hope that the defense has gotten a lot better by 2026? I mean maybe the defense could be good by 2025 IF they draft well

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

What complicates the Kirk situation is that the Vikings aren’t totally devoid of talent. Defensively it’s definitely bad. But offensively they are easily a top ten unit with Kirk. Heck they even finished 10th this year with Kirk missing 9 games. Do you toss all that away and hope the new guy is competent? Or do you take someone, have them sit the bench for 2 years and hope that the defense has gotten a lot better by 2026? I mean maybe the defense could be good by 2025 IF they draft well

How long will the rest of the O be top though? 3 seasons from now everyone could be gone/hurt, or great! That's a LONG WAY off. That last part is my point about Kirk....if the D can't be good in 1 year, you are putting all your chips on 2025. (or being very lucky in 2024).

Not having a better draft two years ago really, really, complicates the math for me (maybe they know Hunter is coming back, etc. and it isn't that hard for them).

[Aggies7]

14 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

How long will the rest of the O be top though? 3 seasons from now everyone could be gone/hurt, or great! That's a LONG WAY off. That last part is my point about Kirk....if the D can't be good in 1 year, you are putting all your chips on 2025. (or being very lucky in 2024).

Not having a better draft two years ago really, really, complicates the math for me (maybe they know Hunter is coming back, etc. and it isn't that hard for them).

I mean yeah, you can’t predict who would be here/good in a couple years, but there’s far less variables at play compared to a tear down when you have young guys like JJ, Addison and even hockenson. Chandler too. I would rather hand the keys off to an experienced, proven driver rather than a guy who just got his learner’s permit (lol)

[Mike Sixel]

There is a chart on Twitter showing quadrants of cap space and draft capital. The Vikes are just above average in both....but under 25 million in effective cap space. If that's right, I don't know how you sign Kirk and Hunter and any really good FAs....other than cap magic. Oh, and pay the 11th overall pick. The Bears are way above the Vikes in cap space and draft capital, and the Lions have A LOT more cap space than MN. I wonder how competitive those two are if they do the right things, and if that effects MN 's decisions on short vs long term thinking (it shouldn't, I think?)?

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, Aggies7 said:

Stroud can say hi after Bryce Young, Sam Howell, Will Levis and Desmond Ridder

Howell, Levis and Ridder all rode the bench.

Which also shows the rookie biding their time learning from the vet isn't the guarantee that anyone would like either.