Article: Aaron Hicks' defensive gaffes draw manager's ire

[Physics Guy]

I made a comment on last night's thread that I don't get Gardy's reaction. On the face of it, Gardy's reaction seems a bit over the top. Guys flip the ball with their gloves all the time. There was nobody on so there was absolutely no harm. Now if he was lackadaisical getting back to his position as mentioned by somebody who listened to the game on radio, then he deserves to get ripped a bit.

 

I agree with SBKnudson that the dugout should not be considered a public forum. If Gardy did not rip Hicks in the post-game presser, then I'm fine with this. It seems as though Hicks is just doing a lot of little things right now that are getting under Gardy's skin. I really hope they continue to send Hicks out to CF for a couple more weeks. If he doesn't start hitting .250 - .275 then he probably needs to go down for awhile. Benson seems to be showing signs that he could handle a call up.

[Steve Lein]

While he definitely does some things that a lot of don't agree with, I've never really been overly critical of Gardy like some people have. I think he's been a decent manager in his time. But, that tune is starting to change as the Twins begin going through a youth movement. His game-decisions and actions with his young players have bugged me a lot more this season for some reason.

 

To me, Gardy has been showing he is not the guy to bring these youngsters along at the MLB-level. He's always been a little tough on rookies, not TK tough, but he definitely will throw one of them under the bus before he ever gets on a veteran who may have done something that contributed to a loss just as bad. It's reminding me a lot of TK's last year where he passed the torch to Gardy.

 

What gets me though, is how Gardy went into the year basically begging that Hicks get his chance, he was "Gardy's Guy." Then instead of keeping his faith, he's come to the point where he pinch-hits for Hicks in a spot that could have done wonders for the rookie's confidence by just allowing him the chance (never mind that the Twins potentially lost the game because of the OF defense that remained afterward), and now he gets mad over an innocent/instinct driven (the flip - I've done this same thing before playing in the outfield, it's just kind of a reaction: "Sweet, I got to that ball, hey there's my SS -> flip) action that I've seen other Twins CF's make plenty of times before.

 

Also, remember all the times Casilla tried flipping the ball to 2B with his glove on a double play ball? And how many times that didn't work? It's pretty much the same thing, except in those cases it ends up not resulting in an out. Yet, I don't recall Gardy ever getting on Casilla's case like this. Instead he got praise for his "effort" to get the ball. Well, as Seth has said, pretty sure Hicks put in a pretty good "effort" to catch that ball. I'd call the flip a reaction of relief he got to it on his part.

 

And I'll admit, I've been a little disappointed with Hicks defense so far, I've seen him be a lot better. Some people say he looks "Non-chalant" out there, but I saw that as a sign of his confidence, that he knows he'll make the play. Unfortunately, I think that confidence is being affected by Gardy's managerial style with him, and I'm inclined to blame Gardy for this as well.

 

But, I'm at the point where I think that the Twins will need a manager going forward to grow with their young prospects, and that's not Gardy.

[Steve Lein]

Here's my question and I've addressed it with two people who umpire baseball: If Dozier drops the ball after the flip, is the batter out or safe?

 

One said since there was no transfer from ball to hand that Dozier should be created with the putout and if the ball drops the runner is safe.

 

One said that he's not sure how he would call it.

 

It's a bit of a judgement on the Umps part, but the rule is if control is made, and/or the player makes a deliberate action to get rid of the ball, it's an out. In this case, even if Dozier dropped the flip, I have to believe 100% of MLB umpires would still rule it a catch.

 

There is absolutely no rule about transferring the ball in order for an out to be recorded. It's only about demonstrated "control", which can be an instantaneous act, for instance on how outs are recorded at 1B.

[Steve Lein]

From MLB.com Official Rules (key notes bolded):

 

"A CATCH is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a ball in flight and firmly holding it; providing he does not use his cap, protector, pocket or any other part of his uniform in getting possession. It is not a catch, however, if simultaneously or immediately following his contact with the ball, he collides with a player, or with a wall, or if he falls down, and as a result of such collision or falling, drops the ball. It is not a catch if a fielder touches a fly ball which then hits a member of the offensive team or an umpire and then is caught by another defensive player. If the fielder has made the catch and drops the ball while in the act of making a throw following the catch, the ball shall be adjudged to have been caught. In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove that he has complete control of the ball and that his release of the ball is voluntary and intentional."

 

I'd say without a doubt that Hicks met all those requirements in that play.

[cmathewson]

We've seen this countless times before. Guys go from his favorites to his dog house. He is such a hot head, little stuff that makes no difference to the course of the game can make him blow his top. Big stuff that does affect the outcome seems to do very little to affect his demeanor.

 

The example of the misplay in the 11th on Monday is such a case. he's got two guys out there who have not played at those positions at all this year. Neither gets to a catchable ball. And he says nothing. Hicks comes in a a tough fly and makes the catch (after running about 130 feet), and he blows up.

 

There's no rhyme or reason to it. And that's where he starts messing with Rookies' heads. If you're consistently a hard ass, or you're consistently lenient, kids can run with that. It's the inconsistency that destroys kids' confidence.

[ThePuck]

anyone have a link to the comments he made about Plouffe playing too far back on the safety squeeze last week?

[Mr. Ed]

anyone have a link to the comments he made about Plouffe playing too far back on the safety squeeze last week?

 

Don't have the link, but it was on the first pitch and Gardy bemoaned he was too far back in that situation.

 

What happened to the take charge SS who could have stepped in and taken care of it?

[stringer bell]

On Hicks: The young man has struggled and, to me, the key is whether his disappointing defense is because of taking his at-bats to the field with him or not. If his offense is compromising his defense, he should grab a seat on the bench or on an airplane for upstate New York. I'm thinking Gardy was taking "the flip" in context with Hicks' displeasure for being pinch-hit for and also missing the cutoff man on Monday.

 

On Gardenhire: I think the displeasure here with Gardy is a bit over the top. It is fair that he wasn't extended and if this team tanks, it will be fair to get someone new. He is certainly not the reason the club lost 195 games in the past two years, but he wasn't the only reason they won all those division championships.

[ashbury]

And I am sure that the kid who just started to find his bat really needs that criticism right now... It will do wonders for him and the team.

 

It's a fine art to know how to treat each player. But, this is the majors. If a tongue-lashing over a minor defensive miscue (a false step back) plus a bit of hotdoggery (the flip) puts Hicks in a funk, then the check-box for "good make up" on his scouting sheet was in error. I don't know the young man, but I'm with the opinion stated elsewhere here that the outcome could very well be a nice game for him tonight rather than a black cloud of depression.

[ashbury]

Gardenhire has the arrogance of a manager who's got a couple world series titles under his belt.

 

Gardenhire establishes who is in charge in the dugout, no different than a manager on his first day on the job, or a manager in the middle of a decade-long run of last-place finishes. "Until the day the GM tells me otherwise, this is MY team."

 

Choosing to give a public tongue-lashing to a rookie has nothing whatsoever to do with his W-L record. The axe-grinding forum is down the hall.

[ashbury]

little stuff that makes no difference to the course of the game can make him blow his top. Big stuff that does affect the outcome seems to do very little to affect his demeanor.

 

Coming soon to the Amazon.com best-seller list: "Don't Sweat The Big Stuff" by R. Clyde Gardenhire

[ThePuck]

reminds me of an article I read awhile ago...here's snippet:

'...With so many players struggling in so many ways, we found it a little odd that Gardenhire -- who by the way looks completely miserable whenever he is shown on camera -- apparently chose a Valencia at-bat in Wednesday's game as his tipping point.

 

From Joe C's insider: Cuddyer was batting .103 (3-for-29) with runners in scoring position before he drilled an RBI double in the second inning. This came after a leadoff double by Morneau and a shallow flyout to center field by Danny Valencia.

 

That at-bat by Valencia was among the myriad things eating at manager Ron Gardenhire.

 

"Man on second, doesn't get him over, flips a weak fly ball," Gardenhire said. "That's not good enough. That's not how we play. And [he's like], 'I'm trying.'

 

"OK, you are trying. Get it done. That's how we have to do it. Get it done because I'm tired of 'trying.'"

 

Maybe there's more to it than that. Maybe it was just a case of wrong place, wrong time. And we hardly blame Gardenhire for venting his overall frustration. But from the outside looking in, we'll say this:

 

Some guys get a free pass. Some guys get a tip of the cap for heroically allowing a lead and then a tie game to turn into a loss. But the brash kid doing an adequate job holding down third base gets knocked down a peg for the millionth fundamental error the Twins have committed this year? Sorry, but we're not sure that's the right guy to pick on.

 

Thursday (Was Gardenhire's rip of Valencia misdirected?) edition: Wha' Happened? | StarTribune.com

[CwK]

I don't want to get ripped for my absurd opinion or baseball knowledge, but it just looks like Hicks isn't at full speed when tracking balls he deems outside of his range. On balls in the gap, he appears to coast to it and lob it in when it just feels like there should be a sense of urgency to me. I also get the same feeling on those soft liners that fall 10 feet in front of him (like Monday). Hicks' range and defensive ability have been praised, so could this be how he has always played and he just looks in low gear on TV? Was he known to "sell out" in the minors and go for the dive or warning track ball? Legitmately curious as to what you guys think.

[Please]

The best ever was Gardy blaming Cuddyer (before Cuddyer entered the Gardy circle of trust) for Radke getting rocked the following inning.

 

Cuddyer chased, we need a better at-bat there and the game really changed with that at-bat. While Radke is giving up homers and line drives all over the place.

[ThePuck]

The best ever was Gardy blaming Cuddyer (before Cuddyer entered the Gardy circle of trust) for Radke getting rocked the following inning.

 

Cuddyer chased, we need a better at-bat there and the game really changed with that at-bat. While Radke is giving up homers and line drives all over the place.

 

I thought the best ever is when he'd blame the whole team for people noticing how poorly Punto was doing at the plate. Something like, 'if everyone else is doing their job, then no one says anything about Punto not hitting.'

 

Edit: Here's the quote: '“If everybody else does their job in the lineup, Nick Punto is fantastic. When other people start struggling … then people starting saying, maybe he can’t hit”

[LoganJones]

Gardy was way out of line last night. He blew up and threw things and got all red-faced over a simple mistake by a young guy trying to make his mark in the game. Did the showboat glove flip need to be addressed? Yes. Did it require a tantrum fit for a 2 year old before it? No. Did it require shouting at hicks and pointing a finger in his face in the dugout? Certainly not. When you scold someone in anger, the reaction is about you. When you redirect undesirable behavior calmly and privately, it's about the behavior. In my mind, the way he berated Hicks after the 5 minute steam show leading up to it, was a suspend-able offense. Since that would cost him the dugout anyway, might as well can him. TK had the good sense to realize that he didn't have the patience for young player development and stepped down. Gardy clearly isn't going to follow that lead, so...

[Alex]

As I said in the game thread, on the radio, Gladden added that even after the catch, Hicks stalled the game by walking out to CF and that everything was waiting on him. So, there might have been more to it than just the flip.

[cmathewson]

As I said in the game thread, on the radio, Gladden added that even after the catch, Hicks stalled the game by walking out to CF and that everything was waiting on him. So, there might have been more to it than just the flip.

 

Maybe he was catching his breath after a flat-out 4.3 sprint for the ball.

[Alex]

Maybe he was catching his breath after a flat-out 4.3 sprint for the ball.

 

C'mon, the guy is a pro athlete. He can at least jog back to his position, even Randy Moss does that on occasion.

 

All I can tell you is that Gladden was pretty upset about that aspect of it, so there might have been something to it. I don't know for sure, I'm just pointing out that everyone is focusing on what they saw on TV when there might have been more to it.

[nokomismod]

I see nothing wrong with how Gardenhire handled that situation. I would want my coach to correct that type of sloppy behavior on the spot. Gardenhire is just the type of manager that the next group of Twins need to get them into playing shape (like Kelly did before he retired).

[nokomismod]

Gardy better talk about the Doumit missed catch the other day, which cost the Twins the game. But, of course, it was Gardy who let Doumit play LF. That flip was nothing. If he picks on Hicks' fielding he should be picking on every other outfielder, since Hicks is much better that the others. And I am sure that the kid who just started to find his bat really needs that criticism right now... It will do wonders for him and the team.

 

Let's see Willingham try to get to that ball.

 

Gardy's got to go. He's been getting as curmudgeonly as Kelly was in his last years.

Don't think the Hammer would have caught that ball either. We have some plodders out there right now (Parms, Arcia, Hammer, Doumit, and Ramirez).

[LoganJones]

I see nothing wrong with how Gardenhire handled that situation. I would want my coach to correct that type of sloppy behavior on the spot. Gardenhire is just the type of manager that the next group of Twins need to get them into playing shape (like Kelly did before he retired).

 

If you were on the receiving end of that sort of 'correction' you'd be much less likely to trust the manager again. It's shoddy team management, and will only lead to more mistakes by Hicks walking on eggshells hoping avoid further public shaming, rather than just realizing he goofed and moving on.

 

Nobody is suggesting that Gardy should have let Hicks slide. They're (at least I'm) saying the way he approached it was far worse than the mistake.

[nokomismod]

C'mon, the guy is a pro athlete. He can at least jog back to his position, even Randy Moss does that on occasion.

 

All I can tell you is that Gladden was pretty upset about that aspect of it, so there might have been something to it. I don't know for sure, I'm just pointing out that everyone is focusing on what they saw on TV when there might have been more to it.

 

Did we watch the same game/play last night? How are the majority of you guys on Hicks side on this one. I do not think Gardenhire overreacted and once Hicks starts playing with his head in the game, Gardenhire will cut him some slack. It appears to me that once you respect the game and play with your head in the game, he's a player's manager.

[LoganJones]

Did we watch the same game/play last night? How are the majority of you guys on Hicks side on this one. I do not think Gardenhire overreacted and once Hicks starts playing with his head in the game, Gardenhire will cut him some slack. It appears to me that once you respect the game and play with your head in the game, he's a player's manager.

 

I for one am not suggesting Hicks didn't do some hotdog stuff out there. Gardy should have calmly talked to Hicks like an adult. What Gardy did was more resembling a bully. He threw a fit when it happened, and then stuck his finger into Hicks' face while he was 'explaining himself', still red in the face and obviously raising his voice. He did all this in full view of the team and cameras. It was completely out of line. You can't teach anyone anything when you're throwing a tantrum.

[ThePuck]

As I said in the game thread, on the radio, Gladden added that even after the catch, Hicks stalled the game by walking out to CF and that everything was waiting on him. So, there might have been more to it than just the flip.

 

The announcers defending Gardy? Imagine that :-)

[ThePuck]

Gardy was way out of line last night. He blew up and threw things and got all red-faced over a simple mistake by a young guy trying to make his mark in the game. Did the showboat glove flip need to be addressed? Yes. Did it require a tantrum fit for a 2 year old before it? No. Did it require shouting at hicks and pointing a finger in his face in the dugout? Certainly not. When you scold someone in anger, the reaction is about you. When you redirect undesirable behavior calmly and privately, it's about the behavior. In my mind, the way he berated Hicks after the 5 minute steam show leading up to it, was a suspend-able offense. Since that would cost him the dugout anyway, might as well can him. TK had the good sense to realize that he didn't have the patience for young player development and stepped down. Gardy clearly isn't going to follow that lead, so...

 

fantastic post!!!!!

[Alex]

Did we watch the same game/play last night? How are the majority of you guys on Hicks side on this one. I do not think Gardenhire overreacted and once Hicks starts playing with his head in the game, Gardenhire will cut him some slack. It appears to me that once you respect the game and play with your head in the game, he's a player's manager.

 

Your quote and response to my post is confusing. I was saying that Gardy may have been upset about more than just the flip for those that are saying he overreacted to that.

 

--

 

What I find frustrating about all of this (his defense as a whole) as a fan of the Twins is that we were assured that Hick's was ready defensively even if he struggled at the plate. So far, that hasn't been the case via statistics or eye test.

[adjacent]

While many of the comments deal with Gardy's behavior, I am more concerned about how Dick Bremer and all the FSN crew were all over Hicks. Generally they don't do that if they are not channeling something said to them by the Twins (Remember Slowey, or the focus on Valencia last year when the whole team was a disaster). I hope they don't end up mishandling a talented player that then either is lost or succeeds somewhere else.

[Winston Smith]

Gardy grew up in a military family and he manages military drill sergeant style. What does't kill you makes you better.

At least that is the hope not sure it's what actually happens in the real world and epescially with pro athletes.

[ThePuck]

While many of the comments deal with Gardy's behavior, I am more concerned about how Dick Bremer and all the FSN crew were all over Hicks. Generally they don't do that if they are not channeling something said to them by the Twins (Remember Slowey, or the focus on Valencia last year when the whole team was a disaster). I hope they don't end up mishandling a talented player that then either is lost or succeeds somewhere else.

 

That's what the announcers do. They'll also talk down to fans that disagree with the actions of the FO and Gardy...it's pathetic. The whole lot is.