Article: The Cuts Continue, 7 Twins Reassigned

[Mr. Brooks]

There might be a greater percentage of the really young batters getting 50 plate appearances or pitchers getting 20 innings, I don't know; but when evaluating Colabello's performance those smaller numbers for comparison end up being noise. I re-sorted by plate appearances and innings pitched instead of the defaults, and the counts I quoted remain essentially the same.

 

Colabello at 28 is significantly older than his competition. As I said, my observation was only a quibble - characterizing the league as "many" being under legal drinking age is not false if that word means under 10%.

 

So if someone is popular, and its said that they "have many friends", are you going to quibble with them because the number of friends they actually have is less than 10% of the world population?

Geez, man. Its a significant amount. Its not like its .9%.

If 1 in every 10 guys he's facing is 20 years old, I'd say thats going to be quite a boost to your numbers, as a 28 year old first baseman.

Look, I dont mean to beat up on what, by all accounts is a harworking guy with a good attitude. I'm just saying that he was pretty old for the league, and still put up pedestrian numbers, considering the position he plays.

With the exception of the Miami Marlins (who should be embarrassed as an orginazation), name 1 other team in baseball who would bring this guy north?

I appreciate his work ethic, and his desire, and his love of the game. There are many pro athletes gliding by on talent alone who could learn something from this guy, and I respect that.

But if I want a feel good story, I'll pop in The Mighty Ducks, or I'll watch the Olympics. For me, there are plenty of outlets for feel good stories, I dont need them in professional athletics.

If they truly think he's one of the 25 best guys on the team, then fine, bring him north, I'll root for him if he's on the team.

But if they are only basing it on the tiny sample size of ST and the WBC, or if they are only doing it because they want a feel good story, then I'm sorry, to me that is a novelty, better left to the Bill Veeck's and PT Barnum's of the world.

Just my 2cents.

[Brad Swanson]

Can someone explain to me why we are excited about Colabello. Isn't he 29 and thus far topped out at AA experience? I'd love it if he were a prospect, but he's not going to get any better.... am I missing something?

 

I think we're all forgetting the obvious marketing tie-in.

 

[nicksaviking]

He's not Drew Butera?

 

Exactly, I'm not sure why it's hard for people to understand it's an either/or situation. What other options for the 25th spot are people expecting to emerge? I don't get the irrational anamosity toward Colabello's age when the likely other option is 29-year-old Drew Butera. That is unless someone is really, really cheering for 27-year-old Wilkin Rameriz or 30-year-old Brandon Boggs. Or is it possible they are still pining for 42-year-old Jim Thome?

[Mr. Brooks]

Exactly, I'm not sure why it's hard for people to understand it's an either/or situation. What other options for the 25th spot are people expecting to emerge? I don't get the irrational anamosity toward Colabello's age when the likely other option is 29-year-old Drew Butera. That is unless someone is really, really cheering for 27-year-old Wilkin Rameriz or 30-year-old Brandon Boggs. Or is it possible they are still pining for 42-year-old Jim Thome?

 

I cant speak for anyone else, but for me it goes like this:

If you are truly cutting payroll drastically because you are rebuilding, then give the roster spot to someone who has a chance to be part of that rebuild.

If you are not rebuilding, then use some of that money to go out and sign someone who will actually be an above replacement level player.

Yes, if we are just going to throw the roster spot away on someone who is not part of the rebuild then I would rather have it be Jim Thome, the future first ballot HOF'er who has proven he can hit MLB pitching, rather than the 29 year old career minor leaguer who has not.

Or does someone in here actually think we've found a future starting first baseman here in Collabello?

[Thrylos]

I cant speak for anyone else, but for me it goes like this:

If you are truly cutting payroll drastically because you are rebuilding, then give the roster spot to someone who has a chance to be part of that rebuild.

If you are not rebuilding, then use some of that money to go out and sign someone who will actually be an above replacement level player.

Yes, if we are just going to throw the roster spot away on someone who is not part of the rebuild then I would rather have it be Jim Thome, the future first ballot HOF'er who has proven he can hit MLB pitching, rather than the 29 year old career minor leaguer who has not.

Or does someone in here actually think we've found a future starting first baseman here in Collabello?

 

I think that someone in their late 20s can have a place in a rebuilding team and potentially follow in a contending young team (if the rebuild is successful) as a bat off the bench and/or as an occasional starter (think Barry Larkin/Randy Bush - role not age)

 

Would that be Colabello? I don't know. But I would not dismiss anyone from a rebuilding team unless they are the wrong side of 30 (like plenty of other players in this Twins' "rebuilding" team...)

 

My feelings about Thome in a Twins' uniform were the same as my feelings about Favre in a Vikings uniform (HOFer or not.) WHY?

[Seth Stohs]

Obviously I think that Colabello was the feel-good story last year, and for him to make the big leagues would be a tremendous human-interest, great story. But 1.) The Twins aren't going to call anyone up just because it's a nice story, and 2.) he can absolutely have a nice role as a bench player, pinch hitter, fill-in at 1B/DH. I'd much rather Colabello do that than someone like Arcia sitting the bench for that role or something like that. he can hit. I don't care what his age is.

[Kavan]

Obviously I think that Colabello was the feel-good story last year, and for him to make the big leagues would be a tremendous human-interest, great story. But 1.) The Twins aren't going to call anyone up just because it's a nice story, and 2.) he can absolutely have a nice role as a bench player, pinch hitter, fill-in at 1B/DH. I'd much rather Colabello do that than someone like Arcia sitting the bench for that role or something like that. he can hit. I don't care what his age is.

 

 

Cool, I'm on board with a human interest story. I only bring up the age because I got the impression people were painting him as a budding prospect or something. I hope he gets his cup of coffee, and I hope he's successful, but he doesn't seem like a guy that is going to be in our long term plans. In the short term, I completely agree we could use anyone that can hit the ball off the bench.

[Mr. Brooks]

Obviously I think that Colabello was the feel-good story last year, and for him to make the big leagues would be a tremendous human-interest, great story. But 1.) The Twins aren't going to call anyone up just because it's a nice story, and 2.) he can absolutely have a nice role as a bench player, pinch hitter, fill-in at 1B/DH. I'd much rather Colabello do that than someone like Arcia sitting the bench for that role or something like that. he can hit. I don't care what his age is.

 

I guess I'm not as sure as you are that he can hit. With his age, and as many career minor league PA's as he has under his belt, I would think he could have put up much more dominant AA numbers if he really could hit at the type of MLB level that you want from strictly a DH/PH option.

 

Put it this way: Who are you trusting to hit MLB pitching, RIGHT NOW, Chris Collabello, or Jim Thome, even at this age?

I'm betting on Thome 10 times out of 10, even at this age.

So if that is all you want, is a PH/occasional DH, why not just pony up the $1million and grab Thome for that role?

If the reason is you dont want to take AB's from younger guys who have a future on this team, great, I can buy that and agree. But if the reason is you'd rather give those AB's to Chris Collabello, well to me the only explanation for that is they want to save $600k, which is pretty dang pathetic given how far they've already slashed payroll.

 

Obviously this boat has sunk, due to Arcia's ST injury, but I think they could have gotten him 450+ PA's on the big club.

Arcia could start in RF, move Parmalee to 1B, move Justin to DH. Doumit becomes the backup catcher and the thump off your bench.

I know Doumit might feel slighted by this since we signed him to play, but I'd just tell him thats how it goes on a rebuilding team sometimes.

[Mr. Brooks]

I think that someone in their late 20s can have a place in a rebuilding team and potentially follow in a contending young team (if the rebuild is successful) as a bat off the bench and/or as an occasional starter (think Barry Larkin/Randy Bush - role not age)

 

Would that be Colabello? I don't know. But I would not dismiss anyone from a rebuilding team unless they are the wrong side of 30 (like plenty of other players in this Twins' "rebuilding" team...)

 

My feelings about Thome in a Twins' uniform were the same as my feelings about Favre in a Vikings uniform (HOFer or not.) WHY?

 

Yeah but the difference is all those other 30+ year old guys are on their way out, not on their way in.

Could Collabello have a role on a rebuilding/rebuilt team? Well sure, I guess he COULD. The same way that Drew Butera COULD (and does!!). But that doesnt mean he SHOULD.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Perhaps this isn't obvious, but not everyone adjusts to being a pinch hitter. Some do it naturally, others do not. I have no problems letting colabello play every day in Rochester. He's facing slightly tougher competition and is a phone call away. I woudln't be surprised in the least if he gets a cup of coffee in the near future.

[spideyo]

The wonderful thing about baseball, is you aren't doomed to go down hill once you hit 27. Yes, he's a bit older than average for where he is, but he's not exactly an old man. It's also not like he spent 10 years wasting away in A-ball. Who knows, maybe if he had ended up in someone's farm system at 21 and had pro coaches helping him develop instead of toiling away in independent league games for 8 years, he might have developed faster and been a legitimate product.

 

Anyways, even though WBC and ST are small sample sizes, I think you can pretty legitimately argue that he would be the best Right handed bench bat we've had in many yeats

[Mr. Brooks]

The wonderful thing about baseball, is you aren't doomed to go down hill once you hit 27. Yes, he's a bit older than average for where he is, but he's not exactly an old man. It's also not like he spent 10 years wasting away in A-ball. Who knows, maybe if he had ended up in someone's farm system at 21 and had pro coaches helping him develop instead of toiling away in independent league games for 8 years, he might have developed faster and been a legitimate product.

 

Anyways, even though WBC and ST are small sample sizes, I think you can pretty legitimately argue that he would be the best Right handed bench bat we've had in many yeats

 

Matt Lecroy OPS'd .899 at AA, as a 24 year old, facing equal competition.

Colabello OPS'd .836 at AA, as a 28 year old, facing competition 4 years younger than him, with 1500 to 2000 more career PA's than his average peer.

So I dont think you can legitimately say that Colabello is a better RH bench bat than Lecroy, when we havent even seen Colabello take a swing at the MLB level yet.

I mean, I guess I can somewhat buy the argument that Colabello wouldnt get absolutely exposed and destroyed at the ML level, perhaps he could hold his own and OPS .720 or so.

But to say that he'd be the best RH bat we've had in many years? Thats going out on a limb. I mean, Lew Ford OPS'd higher than either of them at AA, at 25 years old.

[spideyo]

Let me restate that: one of the best right-handed bench options since 2007? I would be willing to bet money that at the ML level he'd at least be able to hold his own compared to Matt Tolbert, Brendan Harris, Jason Repko, Craig Monroe, Randy Ruiz, Luke Hughes, and our rotating cast of extra OF from the first part of last year.

[LaBombo]

Why would the Twins let any player with an ounce of prospect mojo stagnate or regress in a 25 AB per month utility role? And if 'wasting' 150 bench AB's on CC is negligent because they could be used on a prospect, what would that make 537 PA's spent on a 38 year old utility infielder in a lost season?

 

ideally the last spot would have gone to a Bucky Buchanan-ish AAA guy a bit younger than CC, blocked from the majors or labelled quad A by another franchise. But apparently those are as impossible to come by as backup catchers who can Obp their weight.

[jokin]

Why would the Twins let any player with an ounce of prospect mojo stagnate or regress in a 25 AB per month utility role? And if 'wasting' 150 bench AB's on CC is negligent because they could be used on a prospect, what would that make 537 PA's spent on a 38 year old utility infielder in a lost season?

 

ideally the last spot would have gone to a Bucky Buchanan-ish AAA guy a bit younger than CC, blocked from the majors or labelled quad A by another franchise. But apparently those are as impossible to come by as backup catchers who can Obp their weight.

 

I believe the Twins paleontology department has considered them an extinct species since the the closing of the WilsonRamoscene Era.

[Mr. Brooks]

Let me restate that: one of the best right-handed bench options since 2007? I would be willing to bet money that at the ML level he'd at least be able to hold his own compared to Matt Tolbert, Brendan Harris, Jason Repko, Craig Monroe, Randy Ruiz, Luke Hughes, and our rotating cast of extra OF from the first part of last year.

 

The difference is, most of those guys can also give you some value in the field. If a guy is ONLY on the roster for his bat, it had better be a pretty dang good bat.

[Mr. Brooks]

Why would the Twins let any player with an ounce of prospect mojo stagnate or regress in a 25 AB per month utility role? And if 'wasting' 150 bench AB's on CC is negligent because they could be used on a prospect, what would that make 537 PA's spent on a 38 year old utility infielder in a lost season?

 

ideally the last spot would have gone to a Bucky Buchanan-ish AAA guy a bit younger than CC, blocked from the majors or labelled quad A by another franchise. But apparently those are as impossible to come by as backup catchers who can Obp their weight.

 

I've never said they should.

I said one thing they could do is put Arcia in RF, move Parm to 1B, Morneau to DH, and make Doumit the bench bat.

I also said, if they are not going to do that, then they should go out and sign someone like Thome for that role, someone we know can hit MLB pitching.

[LaBombo]

The 299 PA's in AA Arcia? Next to AA CF Hicks... The promotion fever is on the verge of an epidemic.

[stringer bell]

To me, it looks like it is coming down to Wilkin Ramirez vs. Drew Butera. Ramirez can get an occasional knock and it wouldn't stun anyone if he hit a ball over the fence. Butera's value is the defense he provides at his only position. I want Ramirez, but I expect Sweet Drew.

[Mr. Brooks]

The 299 PA's in AA Arcia? Next to AA CF Hicks... The promotion fever is on the verge of an epidemic.

 

Players have jumped to the majors with right around that or less, and been successful.

If a guy is ready, he's ready.

Its hard to get prospective being a Twins fan, because they havent had may prospects good enough to make the jump that quick, but around the league its really not that rare for good prospects to go from AA to MLB with right around 300 PA's.

From everything we've heard from Gardy and Terry, he's pretty much ready.

I realize that could just be lip service, and if he's not ready thats fine. I was just giving an example of one option out there.

[Guest USAFChief]

I've never said they should.

I said one thing they could do is put Arcia in RF, move Parm to 1B, Morneau to DH, and make Doumit the bench bat.

I also said, if they are not going to do that, then they should go out and sign someone like Thome for that role, someone we know can hit MLB pitching.

If Morneau is healthy, and on the team, he is going to play 1st base. Moving him to full time DH is just not going to happen. It's not even worth considering.

[Mr. Brooks]

If Morneau is healthy, and on the team, he is going to play 1st base. Moving him to full time DH is just not going to happen. It's not even worth considering.

 

Fine, then Parm at DH and Justin at 1B.

[LaBombo]

I realize that could just be lip service, and if he's not ready thats fine. I was just giving an example of one option out there.

 

Fair enough. To be honest, I've generally been a little impatient over the years with the Twins' usually very conservative approach to prospect promotion. But my feeling about this current crop is that since the Twins are not just a player or two away from contention, the whiz kids should see at least a couple of months at AAA.

 

The Hicks thing still bothers me. If Hicks and Benson were deemed unready and Mastro was given CF, where's the 4th OF who can play center? It just seems to me the 'competition' was a farce, with no real plan other than to pound pegs into holes, whether they fit or not.

[Mr. Brooks]

I dont think its a farce.

I think they REALLY hoped Hicks would do well enough to get the job, as that makes it easier.

But if Hicks completely fell on his face, I dont think they would have hesitated to send him down, like they have with Gibson.

You can find a 4th of'er who cant hit or do anything else besides play competent CF. They are not very good, but if all you need is one to hold down the job until one of those 2 is ready, they can be found.

[LaBombo]

You can find a 4th of'er who cant hit or do anything else besides play competent CF. They are not very good, but if all you need is one to hold down the job until one of those 2 is ready, they can be found.

It would look a lot less like Hicks showed up with the job if there were at least one viable (> Clete Thomas) NRI CF besides the prospects and Mastro in spring training from day 1. Small potatoes compared to other issues, but finding a last-minute 4th OF if Mastro wound up in center seems less desirable than having them ready at the outset.

[h2oface]

Mastroianni's ability to play all outfield positions my be the asset that hinders his dream of earning an everyday starting position.....

[LaBombo]

Mastroianni's ability to play all outfield positions my be the asset that hinders his dream of earning an everyday starting position.....

 

Yes, another sign it's been Hicks' to lose since winter meetings.

[ashbury]

Mastroianni's ability to play all outfield positions my be the asset that hinders his dream of earning an everyday starting position.....

 

That and his lack of pop in the bat.

[spideyo]

My understanding is that Colabello is a decent fielder. Unfortunately, it's at the one position where we have incredible depth of options.

 

If he could cover both corner OF spots and/or 3B, his chances would be upped considerably.

 

Heck, if Mourneau got hurt or traded, a Parmelee/Colabello platoon at 1B would be pretty interesting.

 

 

So basically, my point is that offensively, he'd be one of the best right handed bats we've had in half a decade. Defensively, he probably isn't any worse than some of previous bench guys, he just happens to specialize in an area where we aren't lacking for depth

[beckmt]

Just sending a player to AAA does not mean that he cannot be called up. Players play their way off the roster in spring training or if really good, play their way on. Do not think Butera is who they want, but some other options take time to prove in AAA that they belong.