Miller: Escobar Could Be Gardy's 3rd Catcher

[John Bonnes]

There has been some talk about this, but I don't think it's been this frontal before. I don't know if Gardy is still lobbying for Thome with this kind of talk, or if he's impressed with someone like Colabello, but it seems like this is a serious option:

 

Escobar spent a half-hour this afternoon catching pitches from a pitching machine, getting ready for the grand super-utility experiment. It's clear Gardenhire is considering Escobar as an emergency catcher, on hand only in case Joe Mauer or Ryan Doumit get hurt during a game. That would free up a roster spot, the one held last year by Drew Butera, for a stronger pinch-hitter, which definitely appeals to the manager. "Another catcher is only a phone call away," he said. "He would only have to get you through nine innings, or whatever."

 

I have no problem with this plan. I certainly like it better than having Escobar AND Butera on the roster. If he wants a bat, Gardenhire is going to need to make a decision on those guys.

 

Escobar works at catcher, impresses in infield | StarTribune.com

[East Coast Twin]

Interesting quote coming from Gardenhire about a catcher only being a phone call away.

[Riverbrian]

It makes sense... It's all they have to do... Throw the pads on someone to complete the game in case of injury. Fly someone in from AAA for tomorrow's game and there is no need for a third catcher.

 

Why they didn't come up with this idea last year... I have no idea.

 

Glad to hear they are considering it this year.

 

Going forward... They should be training emergency catchers (plural) throughout the minors... to not put future eggs in one basket in case Hermann doesn't work out.

 

If they don't start training emergency catchers... They are making a mistake.

 

We carried three catchers last year making it philosophically necessary and with the tenure of those who hold the philosophy... they should have been prepped for it already.

[FrodaddyG]

If they don't start training emergency catchers... They are making a mistake.

What does that even mean?

 

The need for an "emergency catcher" implies that you carry two catchers and both of them go down in the same game. Even if the day's starting catcher goes down on the first pitch of the game and the other is the DH, you're swapping the other catcher behind the plate immediately. Having to mix and match hitting a pitcher in the lineup 3-4 times has way less potential for damage throughout the game than throwing a barely-trained "emergency catcher" behind the plate and hoping that he doesn't colossally **** up somewhere between catching, throwing out runners, communicating with the pitchers while calling the game, etc...

 

Planning around this non-event by spending any kind of organizational resources to "train emergency catchers" is beyond pointless. In the one-in-a-million chance that both catchers go down, any player on the field would be capable of strapping the pads on and slogging through a couple innings behind the plate even without any kind of preparation or notice. There's no advance licensing component required to wear shin guards.

[Riverbrian]

I agree with you... I wouldn't give it a second thought personally... I think a third catcher is wrong and wasteful. Always have... Always will.

 

However... Last year the Twins had a third catcher on the roster... It was Drew Butera... We had a third catcher because???

 

Gardenhire feels differently... Therefore training emergency catchers in the minors makes sense from that perspective... not mine.

[jokin]

There has been some talk about this, but I don't think it's been this frontal before. I don't know if Gardy is still lobbying for Thome with this kind of talk, or if he's impressed with someone like Colabello, but it seems like this is a serious option:

 

 

 

I have no problem with this plan. I certainly like it better than having Escobar AND Butera on the roster. If he wants a bat, Gardenhire is going to need to make a decision on those guys.

 

Escobar works at catcher, impresses in infield | StarTribune.com

 

It's refreshing to see that the "professional" has finally discovered what most of this board's amateurs thought was obvious.

 

Of course, he went on in similar fashion about "no scholarships" and wasted bench players previously, and at the first sign of a catcher with a twinge, Butera retook his place on the bench for the rest of the season...

[Badsmerf]

That is.... legal?

[Brock Beauchamp]

But what if Escobar goes down? I'd feel a lot safer if Butera was there to back him up.

[FrodaddyG]

However... Last year the Twins had a third catcher on the roster... It was Drew Butera... We had a third catcher because???

 

Gardenhire feels differently... Therefore training emergency catchers in the minors makes sense from that perspective... not mine.

We had a third catcher because of a stupid, misguided notion that the team needed one. Playing along with a stupid, misguided notion only adds to the stupidity of it. It doesn't fix it.

[Guest USAFChief]

Yeah...we'll see. As I posted somewhere in another thread, they started the year with 2 catchers in 2012, too, until the stress got to Gardy and the warm security blanket of Butera sitting at the end of the bench was summoned.

[nicksaviking]

Having an emergency catcher is only one way to go about solving this issue.

 

Moving the remaining catcher behind the plate and losing the DH for a few innings of one game isn't the end of the world either. Having a pitcher hit if it's a low leverage situation is just fine, if not, pinch hit for they guy, what's the huge issue?

 

With no snark intended, is a pitcher batting that much worse than Butera?

[Nick Nelson]

We had a third catcher because of a stupid, misguided notion that the team needed one. Playing along with a stupid, misguided notion only adds to the stupidity of it. It doesn't fix it.

 

You're right, Riverbrian should totally go slap Gardenhire around a little bit and change his outlook on this matter.

 

There's nothing anyone here can do to "fix" the problem. RB was simply commenting on the best approach given the circumstances we face. The team's manager embraces that "stupid, misguided notion" and that's just reality. I don't see anything wrong with posing scenarios that might make Gardy's affinity for a third catching option more palatable as opposed to redundant complaints about it.

[FrodaddyG]

You're right, Riverbrian should totally go slap Gardenhire around a little bit and change his outlook on this matter.

 

There's nothing anyone here can do to "fix" the problem. RB was simply commenting on the best approach given the circumstances we face. The team's manager embraces that "stupid, misguided notion" and that's just reality. I don't see anything wrong with posing scenarios that might make Gardy's affinity for a third catching option more palatable as opposed to redundant complaints about it.

I'd say the priority for "emergency catcher training" should fall somewhere around "teaching all pitchers to throw with both hands, in case the last pitcher available in a game takes a liner off his primary throwing hand" in the hierarchy of things a bad team should be focusing their players on. It's an absolute non-issue, and merits as much discussion as recommending carrying a lightning rod every minute of every day, to avoid an inconvenient electrical strike "just in case" you keel over with a heart attack in the midst of a thunderstorm.

[JB_Iowa]

I understand the frustration over Butera (and have expressed it a few times myself) but given Joe Mauer's health in 2011, it is quite arguable that the Twins started the year in 2012 with about 2 1/3 catchers. And frankly, Mauer is still probably only about 1/2 a catcher if you want to keep him on the field.

 

Now, if you believe that Doumit is easily a full 1/2 catcher (or better), there's obviously no need for a third catcher. But Gardenhire's need for a security blanket has a lot to do with both Joe Mauer's durability and his flexibility in terms of positions.

 

I hope that Gardenhire is confident enough in Mauer and Doumit that he doesn't need a Sweet Drew blanket this season. From my standpoint, that would be a very good thing because it would indicate some pretty strong confidence in both Mauer's and Doumit's health (and a little bit of "risk taking" on Gardenhire's part).

[twinsnorth49]

I'd say the priority for "emergency catcher training" should fall somewhere around "teaching all pitchers to throw with both hands, in case the last pitcher available in a game takes a liner off his primary throwing hand" in the hierarchy of things a bad team should be focusing their players on. It's an absolute non-issue, and merits as much discussion as recommending carrying a lightning rod every minute of every day, to avoid an inconvenient electrical strike "just in case" you keel over with a heart attack in the midst of a thunderstorm.

 

Yet, you're 3 posts into this non-issue, maybe this lightning rod thing needs further discussion after all.

[Guest USAFChief]

I understand the frustration over Butera (and have expressed it a few times myself) but given Joe Mauer's health in 2011, it is quite arguable that the Twins started the year in 2012 with about 2 1/3 catchers.

Butera was in Rochester to start the season last year. So by that logic, the Twins started the year with 1 1/3 catchers in 2012.

[JB_Iowa]

I forgot that.

 

And, actually, that's about what they started with.

[DaveW]

I agree with Fro, there is zero reason to be training emergency catchers throughout the minors, its a one in a million chance.

 

Let's put it this way, you would be much better served teaching your position players how to pitch then to worry about having a glut of emergency catchers in the org, seeing how position players pitching occurs about 20x more then the whole 3rd catcher being "needed"

 

Anyone can go behind the plate for a few innings and catch a few balls, yeah, its probably going to be ugly but it is what it is.

[DaveW]

Butera was in Rochester to start the season last year. So by that logic, the Twins started the year with 1 1/3 catchers in 2012.

 

To be fair though, the Twins had NOBODY who deserved that 25th roster spot last year.

[Willihammer]

They called up Butera about the time they called up Diamond. I assume the two had been working together in AAA but I don't know that for sure. In any case, immediately Butera started catching Pavano and Diamond.

 

So I believe the Twins' reasoning for bringing Butera onto the roster was less about having a redundant backup and more about his knack (however real or imagined) for handling some pitchers. At least, handling them better than Doumit. But now that Diamond has established that he can pitch effectively to whoever is catching, and Pavano and Liriano are not on the team, then Gardy has no reason to break camp with him. I will be curious to watch however, if Gibson gets on track, if they bring up Butera again when they call up Gibson.

[CDog]

Yeah...we'll see. As I posted somewhere in another thread, they started the year with 2 catchers in 2012, too, until the stress got to Gardy and the warm security blanket of Butera sitting at the end of the bench was summoned.

 

The roster/lineup underwent a fairly significant change as discussed in the "Gardy wants some pop on the bench" thread. (Short version: Morneau became a first-baseman again, making Doumit/Mauer the DH.) I'm not saying it makes it "right," but there was more to it than just "Gardy wanted Butera."

[Han Joelo]

Reusse is right. Some fans will be angry regardless of any decision the Twins make. This is a pretty easy "told you so. "

[CDog]

They called up Butera about the time they called up Diamond. I assume the two had been working together in AAA but I don't know that for sure. In any case, immediately Butera started catching Pavano and Diamond.

 

So I believe the Twins' reasoning for bringing Butera onto the roster was less about having a redundant backup and more about his knack (however real or imagined) for handling some pitchers. At least, handling them better than Doumit. But now that Diamond has established that he can pitch effectively to whoever is catching, and Pavano and Liriano are not on the team, then Gardy has no reason to break camp with him. I will be curious to watch however, if Gibson gets on track, if they bring up Butera again when they call up Gibson.

 

Butera actually came up first. He started in Diamond's first two starts which was during the time Mauer was out from behind the plate for a short while after taking the foul tip off the knee. After those first two starts, Butera didn't start along with Diamond again until the final game of the season.

[Otto von Ballpark]

But what if Escobar goes down? I'd feel a lot safer if Butera was there to back him up.

Agreed. And for the first month of the season, we should get Corky Miller back on the roster too, just so we can ease into this arrangement.

 

Forget catching back-to-back games -- heck, these guys may not even have to catch back-to-back innings!

[Guest USAFChief]

They called up Butera about the time they called up Diamond. I assume the two had been working together in AAA but I don't know that for sure. In any case, immediately Butera started catching Pavano and Diamond.

 

So I believe the Twins' reasoning for bringing Butera onto the roster was less about having a redundant backup and more about his knack (however real or imagined) for handling some pitchers. At least, handling them better than Doumit. But now that Diamond has established that he can pitch effectively to whoever is catching, and Pavano and Liriano are not on the team, then Gardy has no reason to break camp with him. I will be curious to watch however, if Gibson gets on track, if they bring up Butera again when they call up Gibson.

They called up Butera because Mauer took one off a kneecap and couldn't catch for a few days. Diamond was called up a week after Butera was called up, and that was because starting pitching was in short supply, it had nothing to do with Butera. Morneau went on the DL around the time Diamond was called up, so Mauer started playing more 1B. In any case, why did Butera spend the rest of the season in the big leagues, if not for Gardy's love of 3 catchers?

[CDog]

They called up Butera because Mauer took one off a kneecap and couldn't catch for a few days. Diamond was called up a week after Butera was called up, and that was because starting pitching was in short supply, it had nothing to do with Butera. Morneau went on the DL around the time Diamond was called up, so Mauer started playing more 1B. In any case, why did Butera spend the rest of the season in the big leagues, if not for Gardy's love of 3 catchers?

 

As stated before, a more complete version is in the "Gardy wants pop on the bench" thread, but before Morneau went out he was the DH almost always, and when he came back, he was the DH almost never. That shifted Doumit or Mauer to DH almost always (when it had been rare before Morneau went out for a while because he--Morneau--was usually in the DH slot). It sure seems like the third catcher became "necessary" when one or the other of the first two catchers were turned to DH'ing full time.

 

In that previous thread, I surmised that it would be tough to think they would replace Butera on the roster with "some pop" because Doumit still figures to be the most common DH. But another player that can catch in a pinch (Escobar) would do the trick also, maybe.

[Riverbrian]

I thought I was clear but in case I wasn't... To Clarify... If I was in charge... I wouldn't be as concerned about having a third player who can play the catcher position on the roster.

 

However... Since it seems to be important to Gardy... I think a better solution would be to train some players for emergency fill in at the position for in game injury and therefore having a roster spot available for a big bench bat.

 

I also believe that since Gardy has had this worry of running out of catchers during the course of a game for quite some time now. The Escobar training makes perfect sense even if I believe that the need for Escobar doesn't make sense overall.

 

I'm also thinking that since Gardy has been here awhile.

 

I think it's possible that the organization has made a mistake not trying to devolop an Escobar or two or three over the past decade. Just working with Hermann is short sighted in my opinion in consideration of what Gardy has been requiring over the years. The organization should have been planning for this scenerio in some way.

 

Arguing weather Gardy should feel that way... Isn't what I'm discussing. I'm trying to discuss under what seems to be Gardy's preference... Which is more realistic than Gardy changing his mindset on the subject.

[kab21]

The reason to carry a 3rd catcher should have nothing to do with a potential injury occurring during a game.

 

The reason to carry a catcher is if he is going to be included in the regular catching rotation. Mauer shouldn't catch >100 games this year. 72 last year. Do you want Doumit behind the plate for 60-100 games? He's awful at catching and butera is awful at hitting. Pick your poison. I think the board would unanimously pick Doumit and so would I but it really comes down to how many games Mauer catches.

[Willihammer]

why did Butera spend the rest of the season in the big leagues, if not for Gardy's love of 3 catchers?

 

In fairness, they haven't carried 3 catchers for most of Gardy's tenure. That only started in 2009 after Mauer was activated late after coming back from injury. And even then, Morales was as much a (switch hitting) pinch hitter as he was the 3rd catcher. Next year, Pavano started requesting a personal catcher, then 2011 happened. 2012 Butera caught Liriano during his renaissance.

 

Everything we've read from Gardy this offseason has been he wants more pop off the bench. He knows that Butera isn't doing him any good when the team is down 4-1 going into the 6th every day.

[John Bonnes]

Not to beat the Butera thing into the ground, but it seems that last year the approach was reasonable:

1) Start the year without him

2) Call him up when Mauer is banged up (fulfilling the "just a phone call away" strategy) and

3) Keep him because, really, why the hell not? It's not like he was keeping a great pinch-hiter off the roster.

 

But this could be different. I'd love to see a real pinch-hitter added IF they can identify one or bring one in. I don't know if Colabello qualifies or not. Thome certainly would. Then, when Mauer gets banged up and needs to sit for a while, bring up Butera and send down Escobar.