Article: Twins trade Denard Span for Nationals' 2011 first round pick

[wavedog]

I like the trade from the fact that the Nationals are my second-favorite team. They are getting an excellent leadoff hitter at a reasonable price. From the Twins side of things I hope we get a few good years from Meyer - since he is a Boras client - we will have to flip him in a trade at some point because we will never sign him to a long-term deal after his cheap years are over. I think we will miss Span more as a leadoff hitter than CF - I always thought he was better in RF. Revere for a year than Hicks in CF is our hope.

[StormJH1]

The Boras angle kind of sucks, but at the end of the day, if Meyer turns out to be good enough to even warrant a long term deal, that will have meant we got enough out of this trade. Olney, Law, and even Gleeman seemed to generally like this prospect. Sure the Twins could have gotten more in theory. But with the Braves out, a Fowler trade and a few FA signings could have left us holding the bag too.

[kab21]

This Boras complaint is ridiculous. He's not even in the majors and unless he's on the opening day roster in 2014 he's not going to be a FA for 8 years. let's worry about this Boras thing 8 years from now.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I don't assume he'll start in AA and even if he did, 2015 would mean one year in AA and one year in AAA

 

Gibson went from A+ to AA to AAA in his debut season. Hendriks, a raw pitcher with virtually no pro ball experience, went from Low A to AAA in two seasons. You may want to rethink your timeline.

[rico7961]

I like the trade. Twins aren't going to be competitive for a few years anyway. Looking at 2015: 1B-Parmalee 2B-Rosario SS-Santana 3B-Sano LF-Revere CF-Hicks RF-Arcia C-DH Maurer DH-Benson-Kepler. Rotation: Meyer-Gibson-Wimmers-Diamond, others in mix Hendriks-Hermsen-Berrios. Bullpen Arms: Perkins-Fien-Thielbar- Tonkin-Pugh-Robertson. This future team looks very appealing to me. Young, Talented, Athletic, Power, Speed. This is the fun part of Baseball. Looking ahead and projecting what the future might look like. The future looks bright in Minnesota a couple or 3 years from now.

 

I don't see how you can see a bright future. It looks more like the mid to late 90's from my perspective. You can go back to any point in Twins history and envision 3 years ahead and think, Wow. Look at the KC Royals they have been wowing for years and where are they today. Less than 20% of those "future stars" will ever be anything in MLB. Taking that into consideration, how does our future look.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I don't see how you can see a bright future. It looks more like the mid to late 90's from my perspective. You can go back to any point in Twins history and envision 3 years ahead and think, Wow. Look at the KC Royals they have been wowing for years and where are they today. Less than 20% of those "future stars" will ever be anything in MLB. Taking that into consideration, how does our future look.

 

Much better than it did 24 hours ago. The Twins have a franchise player in Mauer, something KC hasn't had since, what, George Brett? They have Perkins, Plouffe, Parmelee, and Diamond for several more years. The Twins have three good pitching prospects in the minors, one of which should contribute this season. They have a handful of guys who may or may not work out (Hendriks, Wimmers, the college pitchers in the last draft class, etc.). They have a boatload of outfield prospects coming through the system. They have Sano.

 

All in all, they look pretty good going into 2014. Will that turn into a winning franchise? Hard to say but at least they're not positioned with only minor league talent.

[Top Gun]

Ya the future will look a lot brighter when I win the lotto!

[kab21]

Of course some prospects won't pan out but the mid 90's Twins never had talent like the current Twins system. Maybe it won't work but farm systems set up long playoff runs.

 

I think it's a little early to write the Royal's great system off. It's taking longer than SOME expected but that is an organization that has a lot of talent. Unfortunately none of the young pitchers have worked out.

[Boom Boom]

For 2013, this makes the major league team significantly worse than they were at the end of the season. I'm not very confident that Ryan will put together a rotation that will both improve on the 2012 version and compensate for the loss of Span.

 

With that in mind I really think they should trade off some more players. The 2013 Twins have been all but mathematically eliminated.

[DaveW]

This Boras complaint is ridiculous. He's not even in the majors and unless he's on the opening day roster in 2014 he's not going to be a FA for 8 years. let's worry about this Boras thing 8 years from now.

 

Whatever Kab, I certainly am worried about the state of the 2021 Twins.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I think it's a little early to write the Royal's great system off. It's taking longer than SOME expected but that is an organization that has a lot of talent. Unfortunately none of the young pitchers have worked out.

 

No, it's definitely too early to write them off entirely but the Royals should be a shining example of why burning down the franchise and rebuilding with prospects can be a mistake. The Royals did nothing wrong; they drafted smartly, traded smartly, and put together a stellar farm system... One of the best we've seen in baseball in two decades.

 

And what has that gotten them? So far, a whole lot of nothing. If a team can draft that well and build a minor league system that strong and still accomplish nothing at the Major League level, why should the Twins follow suit?

[Top Gun]

So when we throw in the towel, all we got left is prospects. Mighty team you got us to watch!

[Mike Sixel]

My wife asked last night why teams always traded stars for prospects.....I pointed out that if she lived in other cities, sometimes you would see stars come here, like on the other side of the Twins trades....that is how the casual fan sees the Twins, always trading good players away.

[Brock Beauchamp]

So when we throw in the towel, all we got left is prospects. Mighty team you got us to watch!

 

Trading an outfielder when you have four outfielders on the current roster and two breakout outfielders in AA does not qualify as "throwing in the towel". That's called "smart management". Use a surplus to fill a need. Most of us liked Span and wish he was still on the team but at the end of the day, he was the most expendable player with a high enough value to get what the Twins wanted in return.

[Alex]

One thing is clear from this trade, and that's what Span's actual value is to GMs around the league. Those thinking that he was going to get a young but MLB ready mid-front of the rotation starter are disappointed. I'm actually surprised he got the pitching prospect he did as I didn't think he'd be valued enough to get even that. He might have been able to get an older, more expensive starter that would have been solid for the Twins, but that wouldn't have made sense.

 

So, from my perspective, assuming they got the best young player they were offered, I think this was a solid trade from that alone. Provided they also use that $4M on more pitching, I think it's a good move for the Twins. Additional benefits are that it frees up spaces for other players to get at-bats, we assume Parmelee right away but also more time for some of those young OF that might get called up later this season.

 

That said, I think it's a fair perspective to say that if that's the best offer they got, they should have kept Span. I don't agree, but I think it's a fair perspective.

 

What I don't think is fair, or realistic, are the opinions I've heard more from fans at large but a bit less here, is that what the Twins and Ryan "should" have gotten for Span (IE "A middle infielder AND a prospect, a young ML ready front of the rotation starter). From the rumors it sounds like the Twins were asking for more, but teams weren't willing to pay it. Span just wasn't worth what those folks thought -- that's not really Ryan's fault.

[kab21]

So when we throw in the towel, all we got left is prospects. Mighty team you got us to watch!

 

This is precisely why you don't do a complete firesale and get rid of everyone that is somewhat old. It's also why the Twins should go after some mid tier FA's this winter. At the same time you try to trade your most valuable players that will be gone in 1-3 yrs to add to the farm system.

 

I really hate how the Royals constantly get brought up as a reason not to rebuild. Despite being terrible and having high draft picks they had terrible farm systems until recently and they have made almost zero competent moves involving MLB players.

[Top Gun]

I say load up on one top tier FA every year. Then you got yourself a team.

[gunnarthor]

For 2013, this makes the major league team significantly worse than they were at the end of the season. I'm not very confident that Ryan will put together a rotation that will both improve on the 2012 version and compensate for the loss of Span.

 

With that in mind I really think they should trade off some more players. The 2013 Twins have been all but mathematically eliminated.

 

I don't think the team will be significantly worse. Much of Span's value came from defense and Revere will surpass that. Offensively, it allows us to potentially put a power bat in RF (Parmelee will get first shot but Plouffe and/or Hicks/Arcia will probably get looks there too).

[Brock Beauchamp]

I say load up on one top tier FA every year. Then you got yourself a team.

 

It's one way of building a really expensive team, that's for sure. Even the Yankees can't survive on free agents alone; trying to do just that was the main reason they failed to win a World Series for almost a decade.

[ericchri]

I'm torn. Span was my favorite Twin, and I hoped we could do a little better in trade, but they got the kind of thing back I was hoping for. A starting pitcher prospect with a high upside. We desperately needed some of those in the system. BJ Hermsen may be a contributor to the team some day but he can't be one of your top prospects at the position, he just doesn't appear to have much upside. The Twins are unlikely to ever "buy" a top-tier starter from FA, so if they're ever going to have some it's going to be by developing them from prospects.

[Boom Boom]

For 2013, this makes the major league team significantly worse than they were at the end of the season. I'm not very confident that Ryan will put together a rotation that will both improve on the 2012 version and compensate for the loss of Span.

 

With that in mind I really think they should trade off some more players. The 2013 Twins have been all but mathematically eliminated.

 

I don't think the team will be significantly worse. Much of Span's value came from defense and Revere will surpass that. Offensively, it allows us to potentially put a power bat in RF (Parmelee will get first shot but Plouffe and/or Hicks/Arcia will probably get looks there too).

 

It's not like Revere should have had a death grip on RF last year in the first place. The Twins could have put either Parmelee or Plouffe out there last year.

 

So defensively, the outfield is substantially worse. Offensively, you're trading Span for Parmelee. Plouffe was in the lineup already anyways.

[DaveW]

For 2013, this makes the major league team significantly worse than they were at the end of the season. I'm not very confident that Ryan will put together a rotation that will both improve on the 2012 version and compensate for the loss of Span.

 

With that in mind I really think they should trade off some more players. The 2013 Twins have been all but mathematically eliminated.

 

I don't think the team will be significantly worse. Much of Span's value came from defense and Revere will surpass that. Offensively, it allows us to potentially put a power bat in RF (Parmelee will get first shot but Plouffe and/or Hicks/Arcia will probably get looks there too).

 

It's not like Revere should have had a death grip on RF last year in the first place. The Twins could have put either Parmelee or Plouffe out there last year.

 

So defensively, the outfield is substantially worse. Offensively, you're trading Span for Parmelee. Plouffe was in the lineup already anyways.

 

It's worse, but not as bad as some people are making it out to be.

 

Revere in CF >>>>>>>>>>>>> Span in CF

 

As long as Parmelee can hold his own (I see no reason why he can't) the Twins should be fine out there.

[Boom Boom]

For 2013, this makes the major league team significantly worse than they were at the end of the season. I'm not very confident that Ryan will put together a rotation that will both improve on the 2012 version and compensate for the loss of Span.

 

With that in mind I really think they should trade off some more players. The 2013 Twins have been all but mathematically eliminated.

 

I don't think the team will be significantly worse. Much of Span's value came from defense and Revere will surpass that. Offensively, it allows us to potentially put a power bat in RF (Parmelee will get first shot but Plouffe and/or Hicks/Arcia will probably get looks there too).

 

It's not like Revere should have had a death grip on RF last year in the first place. The Twins could have put either Parmelee or Plouffe out there last year.

 

So defensively, the outfield is substantially worse. Offensively, you're trading Span for Parmelee. Plouffe was in the lineup already anyways.

 

It's worse, but not as bad as some people are making it out to be.

 

Revere in CF >>>>>>>>>>>>> Span in CF

 

As long as Parmelee can hold his own (I see no reason why he can't) the Twins should be fine out there.

 

I'll agree that Revere is a better defensive center fielder than Span, but not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better.

 

I'm just making the point that losing Span and getting no major league players for him makes the 2013 major league team worse than they were at the end of the season.

[Riverbrian]

Let's not get lost in the plight of the Royals and say this rebuilding thing is garbage. Can any of the "Royals example people" say that we don't want the products of the Royals Farm. Would you disapointed if Perez showed up in a Twins uniform... Hosmer, Moose, Butler, Gordon are fine examples of a thriving farm system. We'd love to have Colon in our system. Even with our outfield Glut... We'd love to have Wil Myers.

 

The Royals have failed so far for a couple of reasons in my mind.

 

A. Pitching... The Royals have never had a decent pitching staff during this entire run of bad luck. Who are the pitching prospects that have born fruit. Odorizzi, Montgomery, Lamb, Dwyer haven't arrived yet. The Majority of Arms from the Farm with the big club are bullpen guys. That's why they are talking about trading Wil Myers and names like Lester and Shields are popping up. If they acquire Lester or Shields... That's a product of the Farm System as well.

 

B. Front Office... The Royals are overstocked on the Farm and the Front Office hasn't yet traded the excess for Major League Talent(PItching). It's one thing to stock your farm... It's another thing to not harvest it in the many ways that you can harvest it.

 

C. The Royals can hit... They can't pitch... Playing from behind sucks... No Vibe yet with the club when you are playing from behind.

 

Don't think for a second that the Royals can't be one of those teams that comes out of nowhere and surprises you. I won't be surprised when it happens... Others will but I won't.

 

Like the Twins... They need Pitching and they need it bad. Acquiring pitching is how you fix it.

 

I won't write them off and the Barbecue is great in Kansas City BTW.

 

Also... If you are going to use the Royals as an example... Please try to consider using the Rays as an example as well. It's only fair.

[kab21]

Parmelee might start the season in RF but Hicks or Arcia will end the season there. I can also almost guarantee that one of Mauer/Morneau/Doumit/Willingham/Parmelee will be injured at some point freeing Parmelee to play DH/1B.

[DaveW]

Revere/Hicks OF would be freaking awesome.

[Alex]

 

It's not like Revere should have had a death grip on RF last year in the first place. The Twins could have put either Parmelee or Plouffe out there last year.

 

So defensively, the outfield is substantially worse. Offensively, you're trading Span for Parmelee. Plouffe was in the lineup already anyways.

 

It's easy to forget because of what he did late in the season, but Parmelee wasn't playing well early in the year. Revere needed at-bats as well and had done more to deserve a more permanent promotion. Revere was hitting well much of the season, so I think he had earned it for the full season. Revere was also the safer bet because his defense would have made up somewhat for a lack of offense and can play any OF position. Parmelee has no such fallback or utility (yes he can play 1B, but so can Doumit and Mauer).

[jun]

Here's why Meyer is a much better return than Mike Leake. Mike Leake has no more upside than what he's shown, and if Meyer doesn't pan out, you can find FAs who are basically as good as Leake. Top prospects for average guys when you're a losing team is absolutely the most cost-efficient and talent-optimal way to do business. And I really dislike Terry Ryan.

 

Top prospects for average guys? Are you out of your mind? Span is an average guy? He is one of the best lead off hitters in the league and he plays good defense. He is incredibly cheap. He is our best trading chip. Morneau is way too expensive. Hamilton cannot play defense.

[Riverbrian]

I will never understand it... There are people who seem to hate (maybe too strong a word) Revere but love Billy Hamilton.

 

Revere has things to work on... But he can play.

 

If Hicks is what people say he is. When he arrives... The OF pairing of Hicks and Revere will be a thing of a beauty.

 

With the Pitching staff that we had in 2012. Span in Between Parmelee and Willingham or Doumit and Willingham would have been terrible.

 

If Arcia and Hicks come up this year and out play Ben. Great for us... Until they do... It's Ben's Job and he earned it. I will never understand why Ben is a problem.

 

Trading Span we took a step back in Outfield defense... But the step back is only for awhile cuz Hicks is knocking on the door. When Hicks arrives... Our OF will be stronger... If Hicks is what people say he is...

 

Meanwhile we gained a high ceiling Pitcher who could "God Willing" help us shore up the biggest organizational problem period. Maybe not now but Soon enough. Meyer is 22 and there is nothing above him to block him from advancing quickly. All he has to do is Pitch like some people think he can.

 

I'll never understand the Revere fear that exists with some on this board.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'll never understand the Revere fear that exists with some on this board.

 

It's because players like Revere tend to have short careers that end brutally. I'm not against Revere as a stopgap; what I'm against is having him through his late 20s and then paying him a bunch of money just as he falls on his face (see Figgins, Chone). The Twins can keep Revere for a year or two but if they're smart, they'll ditch him the moment his value is high and they have someone else to play the position.