Here's Your Chance To Weigh In On Bat Flips

[SwainZag]

 

I ask my kids, my niece, my nephews and the friends of those kids why they don't like baseball and one thing they've almost all said, in one way or another, is that the players seem to not even care.  They do something awesome and it's like ho-hum.  Then they see football players and basketball players get excited and it's fun for the kids to see that.  

 

I have heard people find baseball boring but I have never head this.  If you watch a game, these guys have more fun on the field than any other sport out there.  Just because players in baseball don't feel the need to celebrate every positive thing in a 162 game season doesn't mean they don't care.  Do you see LeBron celebrating every shot he makes?  I dare you to watch Dozier's grand slam the other night and tell me it was ho-hum and lacking excitement.  I think that was the definition of an awesome moment.  

 

People have their likes and dislikes.  If you don't like baseball because it's boring, bat flips after home runs aren't going to bring you to the sport. You might looking at highlights a more, but the game itself will still be boring to you.  I think soccer goals are great and really enjoying the celebrations, but I think the sport is insanely boring.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I have heard people find baseball boring but I have never head this.  If you watch a game, these guys have more fun on the field than any other sport out there.  Just because players in baseball don't feel the need to celebrate every positive thing in a 162 game season doesn't mean they don't care.  Do you see LeBron celebrating every shot he makes?  I dare you to watch Dozier's grand slam the other night and tell me it was ho-hum and lacking excitement.  I think that was the definition of an awesome moment.  

 

 

They are too infrequent.  In an NFL game there are celebrations constantly.  Kids across the country "dab" because of an NFL player.  NBA players celebrate and chest bump and get excited all the time.  

 

In baseball only walkoffs are allowed to be celebrated.  To many of us, and especially kids, they do look like they have no fun playing baseball.

[SwainZag]

 

They are too infrequent.  In an NFL game there are celebrations constantly.  Kids across the country "dab" because of an NFL player.  NBA players celebrate and chest bump and get excited all the time.  

 

In baseball only walkoffs are allowed to be celebrated.  To many of us, and especially kids, they do look like they have no fun playing baseball.

 

I guess if people need to dabbing and chest bumping to get them to enjoy the game, then baseball needs that.  I don't need that. Do we really need to see Rosario dabbing a leadoff double?  Berrios chest bumping with Bobby Wilson after an inning ending K?  It's a long season.  I have no problem with celebrating after the win and in big game moments, but maybe it's just me.

 

BTW....I don't the on field celebrations after a tackle for loss or picking up a 1st down in football either.  I understand it's "entertainment" but just my style I guess.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I guess if people need to dabbing and chest bumping to get them to enjoy the game, then baseball needs that.  I don't need that. Do we really need to see Rosario dabbing a leadoff double?  Berrios chest bumping with Bobby Wilson after an inning ending K?  It's a long season.  I have no problem with celebrating after the win and in big game moments, but maybe it's just me.

 

BTW....I don't the on field celebrations after a tackle for loss or picking up a 1st down in football either.  I understand it's "entertainment" but just my style I guess.

 

You're not alone by any means.  But I think your viewpoint does hold the game's appeal back.  Kids love that kind of stuff.  Many of us who aren't kids also enjoy more fun and passion being evident in the game.

[SwainZag]

 

You're not alone by any means.  But I think your viewpoint does hold the game's appeal back.  Kids love that kind of stuff.  Many of us who aren't kids also enjoy more fun and passion being evident in the game.

 

To each their own.  Not everyone shows excitement the same.  I don't need a guy bat flipping and dabbing around the bases on each home run to show me he is having fun.  Flashing a smile as they cross home plate is enough for me.  But everyone is different.

[jkcarew]

With liberties come responsibilities, (and consequences).

 

The batter asks himself, do I want a fastball in the ribs next opportunity?  Do I want to watch the pitcher celebrate every time he strikes me out?  Within that framework, the batter celebrates however he wants. The players police themselves on this which is the way it's always been.  And it's never been perfect.  The embellishment of the crushed home runs was not invented by Latin (or otherwise) players of the 21st century.

 

And it's easy to blame the hitter or the pitcher when the self-policing results in a dust-up.  But we're far far removed from the intensity of the situation on either side of the equation.

[Vanimal46]

With liberties come responsibilities, (and consequences).

 

The batter asks himself, do I want a fastball in the ribs next opportunity? Do I want to watch the pitcher celebrate every time he strikes me out? Within that framework, the batter celebrates however he wants. The players police themselves on this which is the way it's always been. And it's never been perfect. The embellishment of the crushed home runs was not invented by Latin (or otherwise) players of the 21st century.

 

And it's easy to blame the hitter or the pitcher when the self-policing results in a dust-up. But we're far far removed from the intensity of the situation on either side of the equation.

All of the questions you asked is a mentality that needs to leave baseball for good.

 

Throwing at a batter the next time he's at the plate because he flipped his bat or celebrated a good thing is lame. Let the players have fun and celebrate.

[jkcarew]

 

All of the questions you asked is a mentality that needs to leave baseball for good.

Throwing at a batter the next time he's at the plate because he flipped his bat or celebrated a good thing is lame. Let the players have fun and celebrate.

Let the professionals determine what is professional.  That's not bad or dumb.

[Vanimal46]

Let the professionals determine what is professional. That's not bad or dumb.

It's all subjective though and that's the problem.

 

Some MLB folks like Paul Molitor and Brian Dozier think stealing a base in the 4th inning during a 7-1 ball game isn't professional.

 

Celebrations and that mentality of plunking a player for celebrating ties to unwritten rules, which IMO are bad and dumb.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Let the professionals determine what is professional.  That's not bad or dumb.

 

Perhaps, if they acted like professionals in doing so, I would accept that mentality.  But they don't, so I don't.

[SwainZag]

 

All of the questions you asked is a mentality that needs to leave baseball for good.

Throwing at a batter the next time he's at the plate because he flipped his bat or celebrated a good thing is lame. Let the players have fun and celebrate.

 

I don't think that mentality will ever leave the game.  Everyone is pushing for more emotion and more fun, but with all the celebration is going to come with backlash. You aren't competing against yourself here.  You are competing against other humans. Especially baseball when it's so much a 1 on 1 batter against pitcher type dual.  

 

If you are a hitter and feel the need to stare down a pitcher and blow him a kiss because you bested him you should be prepared to get one or two inside on your next plate appearance.  The players and the game does police itself.  Just like hockey polices itself.  You take a cheap shot on our superstar?  You better be ready to fight later.  The players seemingly understand the consequence of their actions.  

 

 

[Vanimal46]

I don't think that mentality will ever leave the game. Everyone is pushing for more emotion and more fun, but with all the celebration is going to come with backlash. You aren't competing against yourself here. You are competing against other humans. Especially baseball when it's so much a 1 on 1 batter against pitcher type dual.

 

If you are a hitter and feel the need to stare down a pitcher and blow him a kiss because you bested him you should be prepared to get one or two inside on your next plate appearance. The players and the game does police itself. Just like hockey polices itself. You take a cheap shot on our superstar? You better be ready to fight later. The players seemingly understand the consequence of their actions.

Meh, that doesn't happen in hockey as much as you think anymore. That sport has evolved. Baseball should think about doing the same.

 

You know the best rebuttal for that pitcher who gave up the HR and was blown a kiss? Strike him out next time.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I don't think that mentality will ever leave the game.  Everyone is pushing for more emotion and more fun, but with all the celebration is going to come with backlash. You aren't competing against yourself here.  You are competing against other humans. Especially baseball when it's so much a 1 on 1 batter against pitcher type dual.  

 

If you are a hitter and feel the need to stare down a pitcher and blow him a kiss because you bested him you should be prepared to get one or two inside on your next plate appearance.  The players and the game does police itself.  Just like hockey polices itself.  You take a cheap shot on our superstar?  You better be ready to fight later.  The players seemingly understand the consequence of their actions.  

 

Football and basketball - sports where physical engagement between players is far more common during the actual gameplay - manage this kind of emotion with relatively little retaliation and fighting.  This kind of anti-celebration retaliation is almost exclusively a baseball phenomenon.  

 

I think it will eventually leave the game and the game will be better for it.  If you don't like a bat flip...be a professional.  Strike him out the next time.  Throwing at his ribs is the unprofessional form of answer.

 

But we're going down a much traveled road here.  You are welcome to like this in the sport, but I think the game will be better off when it moves away from this childish behavior.

 

Good for Mark Canha to flip his bat and publicly mock anyone off who isn't adult enough to deal with it.

[Platoon]

Celebrating for yourself is fine, celebrating to your dugout is fine, celebrating in an opponents face is stupid. And disrespectful. And dangerous. And it's not only dangerous in baseball. Generally you get into someone's face with an overt celebration in any sport, somethings gonna happen.

[jkcarew]

 

It's all subjective though and that's the problem.

Some MLB folks like Paul Molitor and Brian Dozier think stealing a base in the 4th inning during a 7-1 ball game isn't professional.

Celebrations and that mentality of plunking a player for celebrating ties to unwritten rules, which IMO are bad and dumb.

I see what you're getting at.  But my challenge would be that people (not directly referring to Van) too often apply their distaste for the 'unwritten rule' mentality selectively.  They hate it when it's applied to the hitter celebrating a HR, yet they don't necessarily consider the thousands of times other 'unwritten rules' smooth out the game.  I'm immensely glad base runners run the based way less aggressively up by 10 in the 8th...I love it that the game doesn't momentarily stop every time a pitcher blows a batter away on three pitches so we can watch the pitcher flip his glove.  Why is professionalism and respect the better choice in those situations, but not when a home run is hit?

 

Again, celebrate when you crush one.  Killebrew walked half-way to first base back in 1964.  But you do so within the framework of how your peers will interpret what you're doing.  Imperfect (see the Dozier/Molly example above)...but better than legislation, even in the cases where you could legislate...IMO.

[SwainZag]

 

Football and basketball - sports where physical engagement between players is far more common during the actual gameplay - manage this kind of emotion with relatively little retaliation and fighting.  This kind of anti-celebration retaliation is almost exclusively a baseball phenomenon.  

 

I think it will eventually leave the game and the game will be better for it.  If you don't like a bat flip...be a professional.  Strike him out the next time.  Throwing at his ribs is the unprofessional form of answer.

 

But we're going down a much traveled road here.  You are welcome to like this in the sport, but I think the game will be better off when it moves away from this childish behavior.

 

Good for Mark Canha to flip his bat and publicly mock anyone off who isn't adult enough to deal with it.

 

To each their own.  

[Monkeypaws]

Every other sport allows exuberant, adrenaline fueled celebrations of the most extravagant order. 

 

Why should baseball players get butthurt if the other team celebrates their success when all other pro athletes just accept it?

[KirbyDome89]

Isn't there a point where passion becomes over the top antics, i.e. disrespectful? 

 

Also I think we're lumping a lot situations into the same category. We don't have to either condemn or condone the unwritten rules in their entirety. I think the Twins complaining about bunt singles ect. is beyond ridiculous. At the same time I can understand why Texas wasn't happy about Bautista's "passion." 

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

Bautista flipped his bat after hitting an epic post-season home-run.  If you can't be jacked up and show your passion then....why would it ever be ok?

 

I've seen guys be more absurd hitting a walk-off homerun in April.  It's a freaking bat flip.  Keep em coming Jose.  If Texas doesn't like it...don't groove him a pitch to crush.

[Brock Beauchamp]

This is one of the (many) things that I don't understand about sports.

 

Some people get outraged over someone kicking their ass and flipping a bat in response.

 

Me? I don't care. If you get enjoyment from it, good for you. I simply do not care about it.

 

And I generally don't protest things I don't care about.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Bautista flipped his bat after hitting an epic post-season home-run.  If you can't be jacked up and show your passion then....why would it ever be ok?

This is the one situation where a bat flip is kinda fun. How different is it to flip a bat than pump your fist as you round second base in a ****ing huge situation?

 

It's not.

[TheLeviathan]

 

This is the one situation where a bat flip is kinda fun. How different is it to flip a bat than pump your fist as you round second base in a ****ing huge situation?

 

It's not.

 

I think there is an answer to that question, but it's one we've had extensive, heated debates about.

 

I think  jumping up and down like a clown in a meaningless June game should be a bigger deal.  But that's accepted practice.  

 

Then again, I've determined that not a damn bit of this makes any sense and trying to wrap my head around the logic just makes me want to throw baseballs at people.

[SwainZag]

 

I think there is an answer to that question, but it's one we've had extensive, heated debates about.

 

I think  jumping up and down like a clown in a meaningless June game should be a bigger deal.  But that's accepted practice.  

 

Then again, I've determined that not a damn bit of this makes any sense and trying to wrap my head around the logic just makes me want to throw baseballs at people.

 

Just have fun with it, it's just a game errr discussion.    It is amazing how the little stuff like generates so much debate. Competition brings out so much different adrenaline and feelings in people.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Just have fun with it, it's just a game errr discussion.    It is amazing how the little stuff like generates so much debate. Competition brings out so much different adrenaline and feelings in people.

 

You're right, but these issues seem to be norms that can be different.  Football and basketball have a lot more direct, physical confrontation built into the game, but they are able to walk away from a guy dancing in the endzone of flexing his way into the crowd after a dunk.  Why can't baseball players?

 

Why can dudes literally break legs celebrating meaningless July games because the home run came in the bottom half of a home game and no one bats an eye....but Jose Bautista is the world's worst human being for hitting a MASSIVE home run....in a close game...in a raucous stadium.....in the playoffs!!!!

 

I....just.....I just don't get it.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Bautista flipped his bat after hitting an epic post-season home-run.  If you can't be jacked up and show your passion then....why would it ever be ok?

 

I've seen guys be more absurd hitting a walk-off homerun in April.  It's a freaking bat flip.  Keep em coming Jose.  If Texas doesn't like it...don't groove him a pitch to crush.

I've never seen a guy do something more over the top than hit a homer, stand at home plate and watch it, stare at the pitcher, scream, throw his bat, then start trotting in April. That isn't just a bat flip. IMO it's no better than pitchers staring down hitters, barking at them, ect. after recording an out. 

 

If you're a fan of all that then more power to you. All of it ranks pretty low on my importance meter, but I just have a hard time believing that all the antics are pure exuberance and not in any way intended to disrespect. 

[jkcarew]

 

Football and basketball - sports where physical engagement between players is far more common during the actual gameplay - manage this kind of emotion with relatively little retaliation and fighting.  This kind of anti-celebration retaliation is almost exclusively a baseball phenomenon.

To be fair, in basketball the peace was obtained at the price of some pretty heavy-handed legislation.  Every game is now officiated as if a city-wide riot could break out at any minute   Technical fouls for the direction you look, and special time-outs to categorize fouls so that we can extinguish that retaliatory spark.  Even football deemed it necessary to define a legal celebration.

 

In that light, I see baseball as unique in that they have left HR celebrations up to the players (so far...and on a relative basis).  I think that's a good thing.  Although, perhaps it could be argued that a rule defining a legal HR celebration would reduce the retaliatory dust-ups and at the same time not become a total joke (NFL).  Currently, I'm afraid to find out.

[TheLeviathan]

 

To be fair, in basketball the peace was obtained at the price of some pretty heavy-handed legislation.  Every game is now officiated as if a city-wide riot could break out at any minute   Technical fouls for the direction you look, and special time-outs to categorize fouls so that we can extinguish that retaliatory spark.  Even football deemed it necessary to define a legal celebration.

 

True, but this success would suggest that it can be legislated and need not be self-policed. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

I've never seen a guy do something more over the top than hit a homer, stand at home plate and watch it, stare at the pitcher, scream, throw his bat, then start trotting in April. That isn't just a bat flip. IMO it's no better than pitchers staring down hitters, barking at them, ect. after recording an out. 

 

Have you missed the home-plate, team mobs where guys are tossing stuff all over the place, dancing up and down, pumping their fists, and screaming with excitement?  Most of those occasions decide nothing more than draft position.  Bautista won a playoff game with a dramatic home-run.  At the very least we should consider these roughly equivalent.  Why one is ok and the other isn't is inexplicable to me.

 

Hell, Dozier did as much scoring on a balk the other day.  IMO, the problem is in people trying to determine what is authentic celebration.  It's impossible and rife with error.  Just let people be happy and if you don't like what they did?  Get them out the next time.  Get a hit off them the next time.  

[nicksaviking]

Celebrations do nothing for me unless it's the end of a big game.

 

But I'm all for my team's batters showing up the other team's pitcher if only to get in his head. And pitchers should be suspended for intentionally beaning a guy in retaliation. A true professional would suck it up compose himself and move on to the next batter. I'd like my team to take advantage of the pitchers who struggle to get over it.

 

No different than Michael Jordan or John Randle trash talking to throw their opponents off of their game.

[SwainZag]

 

You're right, but these issues seem to be norms that can be different.  Football and basketball have a lot more direct, physical confrontation built into the game, but they are able to walk away from a guy dancing in the endzone of flexing his way into the crowd after a dunk.  Why can't baseball players?

 

Why can dudes literally break legs celebrating meaningless July games because the home run came in the bottom half of a home game and no one bats an eye....but Jose Bautista is the world's worst human being for hitting a MASSIVE home run....in a close game...in a raucous stadium.....in the playoffs!!!!

 

I....just.....I just don't get it.

 

I think the physical confrontation helps that out.  You are banging in basketball, throwing bodies on each other, getting out some aggression on each and every play.  And fouling is legal.  You see hard fouls in basketball all the time.  Football is the same way as well as aggression goes.  On touchdowns, I don't mind celebrations.  The teams are going to their respected sidelines, most of the team is getting replaced and for a lot of guys, and it's a time out on the field.

 

In Baseball, it's one on one, you and the pitcher.  One of you will win the battle.  Not only like in football do you walk off the field, you jog through their team and back to your dugout.  Just a completely different feel IMO. Bat Flips don't bother me, unless you are doing it to show up the pitcher.  If you bat flip, watch your shot, stare down the pitcher, toss come comments his way on the to first.....that shouldn't be tolerated.  You can celebrate without showing up your opponent.  It's why a TD celebration is fine, but sprinting to midfield and celebrating on the other team's logo at midfield is frowned upon.

 

I understand the whole professionalism thing and everyone should be having fun it's a game! But people have to remember a good portion of these guys are 19-28 years old, very competitive and losing isn't fun.