Time for Gibson to go/Gibson optioned to AAA

[drjim]

 

"Massive blunder"?   No way.   I'd rather have 4 years of control of Del Leon post TJ surgery than Dozier stinking up Target field at a .242/.306/.364 rate (*) and blocking younger players for 2 years.

 

He needed to and still needs to go.  He was and is part of the problem, and hopefully someone is willing to take him off the Twins' hands this season.

 

(*)  .200/.273/.200 in high leverage situations, where he has a career .225/.294/.377 slash line, including a .192/.288/.384 line last season.

 

I'll take the over on Dozier's final line.

[Mike Sixel]

I'll take the over on Dozier's final line.

And it won't matter, because they have no pitching.

[70charger]

 

Which deal? Other reports were out there with a couple solid pieces FYI.

Still should have traded anyone and everyone for SP help though.

 

Other reports? You mean you?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Which deal? Other reports were out there with a couple solid pieces FYI.

Still should have traded anyone and everyone for SP help though.

I'm not going to rehash what was or wasn't on the table. All we know is that De Leon is injured right now and there's a decent chance he'll go under the knife for Tommy John in the next few months.

 

That, minus any other reliable information, means holding on to Dozier was the right move. If there are injury concerns for the headline prospect in a deal and he goes down with an injury before the season even starts, the non-trade shouldn't be criticized.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

"Massive blunder"?   No way.   I'd rather have 4 years of control of Del Leon post TJ surgery than Dozier stinking up Target field at a .242/.306/.364 rate (*) and blocking younger players for 2 years.

Because we all know how quickly pitchers return to being 100% effective after Tommy John surgery.

 

It's immediate, right?

[drjim]

 

And it won't matter, because they have no pitching.

 

And if they had traded him to the Dodgers they'd still have no pitching. So might as well keep him and see if the market changes.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

And it won't matter, because they have no pitching.

They wouldn't have pitching either way.

 

Some of you are acting as if this De Leon injury came out of nowhere when it was his biggest concern before the trade.

 

He's a 24 year old prospect with a career high innings pitched of 114.

 

If you're getting one or two other really good pieces, maybe you take that guy but acting as if the Twins would be flush with pitching when the headline prospect of the non-deal might have Tommy John surgery is disingenuous and silly.

[Thrylos]

 

And if they had traded him to the Dodgers they'd still have no pitching. So might as well keep him and see if the market changes.

 

The market has already bottomed out, since Dozier predictably return to his old usual self...

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The market has already bottomed out, since Dozier predictably return to his old usual self...

Your Dozier hatred is comical. Just comical.

 

You haven't been able to view the guy objectively since day one, as evidenced by your repeated attacks of his Christianity and ridiculous statements such as "Jorge Polanco is a better hitter today"... which might be true, had you said it today. Except you said that in 2015.

[caninatl04]

Is there an issue of Berrios and service time? Might the Twins delay his promotion in order to keep him under team control for another year?

[drjim]

 

The market has already bottomed out, since Dozier predictably return to his old usual self...

 

On April 23 last year Dozier was at 179/276/313.

 

He's ahead of schedule!

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Is there an issue of Berrios and service time? Might the Twins delay his promotion in order to keep him under team control for another year?

I haven't looked in awhile but IIRC, no service time concerns.

[drjim]

 

Is there an issue of Berrios and service time? Might the Twins delay his promotion in order to keep him under team control for another year?

 

Short answer is no. He's still in the minors for other reasons. But probably not for long.

[D.C Twins]

Gibson to the bullpen for now. Wheeler should come up and get a shot (and Gibson can provide long relief back up). I'm not saying he'll be great, but he has earned a shot given the limited depth. 

 

We do indeed have 'comically bad' pitching depth. (perfect description)  

[Mike Sixel]

Is there an issue of Berrios and service time? Might the Twins delay his promotion in order to keep him under team control for another year?

I just can't see wottying about that with a pitcher. And Sano isn't here much longer. They need Berrios to be good soon, not in four years

[drjim]

 

I just can't see wottying about that with a pitcher. And Sano isn't here much longer. They need Berrios to be good soon, not in four years

 

Sano's here for at least 4.5 more years. That's kind of a strange comment.

[Mike Sixel]

Sano's here for at least 4.5 more years. That's kind of a strange comment.

This year is lost. Hard to see them competing next year. So, what two years where they are both here, and maybe the team is good?

[yarnivek1972]

Gibson to the bullpen for now. Wheeler should come up and get a shot (and Gibson can provide long relief back up). I'm not saying he'll be great, but he has earned a shot given the limited depth.

 

We do indeed have 'comically bad' pitching depth. (perfect description)

Some reason to tap Wheeler over Tepesch?

[drjim]

 

This year is lost. Hard to see them competing next year. So, what two years where they are both here, and maybe the team is good?

 

I suspect all kinds of outcomes are possible.

 

Berrios will get his chance soon enough. We can all hope he's good, but it's far from a sure thing.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

It would be hard to run a team worse than this team the last 16 months.

 

I know you have to carry the Twins FO water on a lot of these things, but defending a guy who has never been good and has been one of the worst 5 pitchers in baseball the last 14 months? Come on Brock.

 

Bullpen, I guess I could maybe see it. But him as a starter should be over. Forever. Him succeeding as a reliever? I give it a 1 in 6 chance, which is better than a lot of guys they have in the pen. So maybe you are right on that.

agree, he should not be a starter for the Twins. Neither should Phil Hughes. Behind Berrios and Mejia there's no one, unless you want to have bullpen games with Haley starting every 5th. If you cut bait on either of those two, you need Gonsalves or somebody ready for a promotion too.

[Thrylos]

 

Your Dozier hatred is comical. Just comical.

 

You haven't been able to view the guy objectively since day one, as evidenced by your repeated attacks of his Christianity and ridiculous statements such as "Jorge Polanco is a better hitter today"... which might be true, had you said it today. Except you said that in 2015.

 

Attacks?  Nope.  My position has been that flaunting his personal religious beliefs at a workplace is a. unprofessional and b. divisive.   Period.  Nothing less nothing more.  His beliefs belong in his home and place of worship not in a baseball game.   If that is considered an "attack", it is a comical hot take.  I have no issue with anyone's beliefs, if kept where they should be, in private.

 

Jorge Polanco was a better hitter than Brian Dozier in 2015, 2016 and 2017 and will be a better hitter than Brian Dozier in the future.  I stand by this position.  Of course a player on his prime will have more power than a 22 year old, which has been Dozier's single advantage against Polanco last season. 

 

Especially in high leverage situations (*).  Again:  Dozier's career year (2016) slash line when the game was on the line: .192/.288/.384.  That's not comical, it is tragic, as is the fact that Dozier will never have as high a value as he did last off-season and the Twins did not get rid of him...

 

(*) Polanco's career slash in high leverage situations is .309/.359/.527

 

[DaveW]

Other reports? You mean you?

Yup.

 

Believe me or not, but keep in mind that 90% of the ball games I goto I'm sitting 4 rows behind home plate in the "scouts" section, so clearly I have the sources (and track record on 3 other pieces of breaking news) to know that the other offer was on the table.

 

Either way, even if you don't believe me which is fine, the reality is the Twins are still an awful team and have a terrible pitching staff across the board. New regime has done absolutely, positively, zero to improve it. Berrios still sits in AAA and guys like Gibson is getting starts h doesn't deserve.

 

Perhaps the Twins shouldn't have gone the "cheap" route in hiring a new GM and VP and paid market value for a solid one?

 

What do I know thoigh? (Other than a 8.00 era from a starter is bad!)

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Jorge Polanco was a better hitter than Brian Dozier in 2015, 2016 and 2017 and will be a better hitter than Brian Dozier in the future.

I'm not even going to rebut, I just want to bask in the glory of this sentence for a few minutes.

[DaveW]

When it comes to players who are some of the worst in baseball the last couple years:

Gibson (SP)

Santana (ss/of)

 

Who have no upside left, you shouldn't be worrying about options.

[DaveW]

I'm not even going to rebut, I just want to bask in the glory of this sentence for a few minutes.

Yeah that's absurd. Dozier is one of the elite MI in baseball. Polanco COULD be someday, but is a ways off for sure. Dozier is awesome, which is why they should trade him Knoblauch style to help the future IMO.

[D.C Twins]

 

Some reason to tap Wheeler over Tepesch?

 

I'd be good with Tepesch as well.... I would just like us to use this season to gain as much information about our players as possible moving forward.....With 40% of our rotation pitching well, we need to disavow ourselves of the notion that we will be competitive. Lets at least figure out who can be a 5th starter and who cannot

[bluechipper]

I'm not worried about the Twins starting pitching depth when it comes to getting rid of Gibson. It's pretty apparent that he's not capable of starting anymore. Plenty of options for guys who can put up a 5 ERA.

[70charger]

Yup.

Believe me or not, but keep in mind that 90% of the ball games I goto I'm sitting 4 rows behind home plate in the "scouts" section, so clearly I have the sources (and track record on 3 other pieces of breaking news) to know that the other offer was on the table.

Either way, even if you don't believe me which is fine, the reality is the Twins are still an awful team and have a terrible pitching staff across the board. New regime has done absolutely, positively, zero to improve it. Berrios still sits in AAA and guys like Gibson is getting starts h doesn't deserve.

Perhaps the Twins shouldn't have gone the "cheap" route in hiring a new GM and VP and paid market value for a solid one?

What do I know thoigh? (Other than a 8.00 era from a starter is bad!)

So... other source. Not sources. Self-reported, AND self-sourced. Forgive my skepticism but I gave you more than a months benefit of the doubt. If it were Alvarez and De Leon that deal gets done immediately.

 

I guess congratulations on your seats at baseball games though.

[DaveW]

I'm not worried about the Twins starting pitching depth when it comes to getting rid of Gibson. It's pretty apparent that he's not capable of starting anymore. Plenty of options for guys who can put up a 5 ERA.

Yup, if Gibson was 25-26 I would get the "patience" but at this stage? He is what he is. Fill in 5th pitcher at his peak now, AAAA type more than likely. No place on a rebuilding club.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Truly is a shame they don't have an injured starter at AAA.

FWIW, I think Alex Wood was rumored to be a possible extra piece available in that deal. He would look pretty good on our staff right now, even if DeLeon hasn't done anything.