Twins option Mejia to AAA, put Haley on DL

[yarnivek1972]

 

I see no evidence this FO wants to give the youth a chance, unless that youth was already on the roster. They signed OLD free agents, and tried to sign more. 

 

So far, I'm disappointed in their actual actions. 

 

That certainly doesn't fit their history.  Texas and especially Cleveland have gotten a lot of production from their minor league systems.  

 

Perhaps the reality is that they are not impressed by what is in the minors for this organization and are buying time to draft the players they want and get them developed the way they want them developed.

[drjim]

 

That certainly doesn't fit their history.  Texas and especially Cleveland have gotten a lot of production from their minor league systems.  

 

Perhaps the reality is that they are not impressed by what is in the minors for this organization and are buying time to draft the players they want and get them developed the way they want them developed.

 

And outside of Berrios, who exactly is not being called up right now? It's still only a month into the season.

[yarnivek1972]

 

And outside of Berrios, who exactly is not being called up right now? It's still only a month into the season.

 

 

Melotakis and Vielma should have started the season in AAA, not AA.  Perhaps is Melo had started the season in AAA, he would be ready for the MLB level now.

 

And I didn't really say that there was anyone worthy of a call up at this point either.  Ask Mike Sixel.

[howieramone2]

 

We have a 26 year old catching prospect with a .935 OPS in AAA, and the Twins keep a 34 year old career backup backup on the roster to hit .167.  

Garver is pie-in-the sky. Gimenez is a proven vet. If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Melotakis and Vielma should have started the season in AAA, not AA.  Perhaps is Melo had started the season in AAA, he would be ready for the MLB level now.

That's fair but does it really matter? Is this front office averse to calling up someone directly from AA? I'm not sure. Maybe they slowed his development, maybe they don't care where he pitches before a callup.

 

I don't know enough about the callup history of Cleveland or Texas to say for sure.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Garver is pie-in-the sky. Gimenez is a proven vet. If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

 

As in "proven he's really a bad MLB player?" Agreed.

[howieramone2]

 

But Garver can get ABs in a lot of different scenarios and in a rebuilding franchise he needs to be just given more PAs than what perhaps he has "earned".  It would be different if I was arguing about bringing up a 23 year old from AA like the Twins did with Laudner (albeit Launder has 42 HRs that season) instead of a guy who is already 26 years old.  When, if ever are they going to give the guy a chance to sink or swim?  

 

I get that this team is going to prefer retreads liek Nick Tepesch and Giminiz to giving their prospects a chance.  But, then, that is why this team really sucks and have been over an extended period.

 

I get everyone is excited with a 12-11 start and there was the fluke 500 season in 2015, but this team has lost 99, 96, 96, 92, and 103 games in 5/7 seasons and pretending we are contenders versus getting our prospects MLB development is idiotic.  

But the team doesn't really suck, and one of the laws of baseball is every mid-market team must rebuild at some point in time.

[Mike Sixel]

 

And outside of Berrios, who exactly is not being called up right now? It's still only a month into the season.

 

Lots of people here, maybe even you, typed that the bullpen would be totally different by May.

 

Berrios should be here, IMO. Melo should be in AAA now. Burdi should be in AAA now. The lineups are more consistently challenging there than AA. 

 

And, my post was clearly also about their pursuit of OLD free agents, not just about who got called up or not. 

 

Based purely on their actions, not their talk, it sure looks like they prefer older veterans than young players. 

[drjim]

 

Lots of people here, maybe even you, typed that the bullpen would be totally different by May.

 

Berrios should be here, IMO. Melo should be in AAA now. Burdi should be in AAA now. The lineups are more consistently challenging there than AA. 

 

And, my post was clearly also about their pursuit of OLD free agents, not just about who got called up or not. 

 

Based purely on their actions, not their talk, it sure looks like they prefer older veterans than young players. 

 

I agree on Berrios, but that strikes me as a small sample to make a sweeping generalization about. And I don't know if it is accurate at all to say Burdi or Melotakis *should* be in AAA right now.

 

Chargois and O'Rourke got hurt. Not much the front office can do about that.

 

And the old vets are one year stop gaps. Why is that a problem? They have to fill out a roster.

 

And I personally would never put a specific timetable on things I can't control, but I do think the bullpen will look different throughout the year.

[howieramone2]

 

I see no evidence this FO wants to give the youth a chance, unless that youth was already on the roster. They signed OLD free agents, and tried to sign more. 

 

So far, I'm disappointed in their actual actions. 

It's been mentioned to you on several occasions, we are the second youngest team in all of baseball.

[howieramone2]

 

As in "proven he's really a bad MLB player?" Agreed.

You don't play in The Show as long as he has if you're a bad player. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

It's been mentioned to you on several occasions, we are the second youngest team in all of baseball.

 

And I've replied....every time....this FO added only older players. We are talking about this FO, and what this FO has done. This FO brought in Belisle, Breslow, Gimenez, Castro, and tried to sign a mid-30s DH. 

 

I can only judge this FO on their actions, not on what the previous regime did.

[TheLeviathan]

 

And I personally would never put a specific timetable on things I can't control, but I do think the bullpen will look different throughout the year.

 

Well...yeah.  Of course.  No roster stays the same for a variety of reasons, injuries most of all.  But this seems like retreating to some really obvious safe ground and ignores what was actually being asked at the time: The bullpen isn't very good, how long before we call up guys that might be good?

 

The answer, from a few, was within the first few weeks.  Well, we're past that and it feels like the goal posts are moving again.

[Mike Sixel]

ESPN has MN tied for 18th in terms of age. Pretty much median.....not "youngest".

[howieramone2]

 

And I've replied....every time....this FO added only older players. We are talking about this FO, and what this FO has done. This FO brought in Belisle, Breslow, Gimenez, Castro, and tried to sign a mid-30s DH. 

 

I can only judge this FO on their actions, not on what the previous regime did.

The current regime is fielding the second youngest team in all of baseball. Every team in baseball has stop gap players. I thought you were a "win now" guy. That's why you bring in stop gap players, like every other team in baseball. 

[howieramone2]

 

Well...yeah.  Of course.  No roster stays the same for a variety of reasons, injuries most of all.  But this seems like retreating to some really obvious safe ground and ignores what was actually being asked at the time: The bullpen isn't very good, how long before we call up guys that might be good?

 

The answer, from a few, was within the first few weeks.  Well, we're past that and it feels like the goal posts are moving again.

At this point in time the pen is doing just fine. If it's not broken don't fix it.

[Mike Sixel]

 

The current regime is fielding the second youngest team in all of baseball. Every team in baseball has stop gap players. I thought you were a "win now" guy. That's why you bring in stop gap players, like every other team in baseball. 

 

Uh, EPSN has them 18th in age. Is there a site that is more accurate?

 

And, I'm not interested in weighting by playing time, the players this FO added are the RP and backup catcher types.

 

I am a win now guy when you are on the verge of greatness, otherwise I am totally in teh rebuild camp. 

[howieramone2]

 

ESPN has MN tied for 18th in terms of age. Pretty much median.....not "youngest".

On this very board, I read an article that said we were the second youngest at 25.8 years old. 

[drjim]

 

Well...yeah.  Of course.  No roster stays the same for a variety of reasons, injuries most of all.  But this seems like retreating to some really obvious safe ground and ignores what was actually being asked at the time: The bullpen isn't very good, how long before we call up guys that might be good?

 

The answer, from a few, was within the first few weeks.  Well, we're past that and it feels like the goal posts are moving again.

 

The bullpen actually seems to be performing acceptably. Probably why there is no rushing people up. There was a panic for a week, but it's calmed down again.

 

And the main reason there hasn't been a change is the obvious candidate to come up (perhaps the only one) is hurt again. What would you have the Twins front office do?

[Thrylos]

 

 

Tepesch (yes, I said it, he's starting Saturday, just watch)

 

 

This is a given pretty much.  He threw a simulated game before yesterday's start.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I agree. I don't think we need to make the decision now between flipping Santiago and extending him. Wait until July and see if someone will give you that quality startling prospect in return - seems unlikely but a guy can dream -  and if not then see about a new contract at year end once we've had a real chance to evaluate Berrios, Mejia, Tepesch (yes, I said it, he's starting Saturday, just watch) and everyone else. Besides, can't we always give Santiago a Qualifying Offer for next year? He doesn't have to take it but he isn't going to get that kind of one year money anywhere else so there's at least a chance and the draft pick comp is some return. No need to make any decision now.    

The comp picks have changed with the QO. I can't remember the details but I don't believe the return is as lucrative as it once was.

 

Or maybe the signing team just doesn't get punished anymore. I can't remember. Still, that makes the return less lucrative either way.

[Thrylos]

 

I agree. I don't think we need to make the decision now between flipping Santiago and extending him. Wait until July and see if someone will give you that quality startling prospect in return - seems unlikely but a guy can dream -  and if not then see about a new contract at year end once we've had a real chance to evaluate Berrios, Mejia, Tepesch (yes, I said it, he's starting Saturday, just watch) and everyone else. Besides, can't we always give Santiago a Qualifying Offer for next year? He doesn't have to take it but he isn't going to get that kind of one year money anywhere else so there's at least a chance and the draft pick comp is some return. No need to make any decision now.    

 

Seriously?  The fan-base reaction to Santiago went from not tendered last off-season to offering him $15MM+ after this season?  Because of one month?

 

Santiago is the poster boy of selling high.  And this high could have been before tonight's start.  Here are his numbers:

 

ERA 2.45; xFIP 4.95, SIERA 4.41, 4.8% HR/FB, 84.8% LOB

 

A regression ready to happen.  If the Twins can get an decent prospect out of him right now, I'd rather see Berrios/Mejia pitch...

[howieramone2]

 

Seriously?  The fan-base reaction to Santiago went from not tendered last off-season to offering him $15MM+ after this season?  Because of one month?

 

Santiago is the poster boy of selling high.  And this high could have been before tonight's start.  Here are his numbers:

 

ERA 2.45; xFIP 4.95, SIERA 4.41, 4.8% HR/FB, 84.8% LOB

 

A regression ready to happen.  If the Twins can get an decent prospect out of him right now, I'd rather see Berrios/Mejia pitch...

Sano is a regression ready to happen. Rod Carew batted .388 in 1977 and regressed the rest of his career. Santiago is a proven vet, the last few games do not define his career.

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

At this point in time the pen is doing just fine. If it's not broken don't fix it.

I respectfully disagree.

Our BP is 20th in FIP, 20th in xFIP AND 13th in ERA.

All while carrying the 4th lowest BABIP in MLB at .254.

 

I think we have issues. Not saying we need to do something today, but this is not a group to get comfortable with.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

That certainly doesn't fit their history.  Texas and especially Cleveland have gotten a lot of production from their minor league systems.  

 

Perhaps the reality is that they are not impressed by what is in the minors for this organization and are buying time to draft the players they want and get them developed the way they want them developed.

 

Either that or they aren't happy with the way Berrios was developed and need to correct some things...

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Garver is pie-in-the sky. Gimenez is a proven vet. If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

 

I'll add to this.  Garver won't be starting every day if he's called up right now.

 

Garver has had very few at bats in the high minors, and while he's doing well, without question he could stand to learn a bit there I'm sure.

 

There's more to catching than offense.  It's an important defensive position, and there's very little defensively that he can do that we will see in his AAA box scores. 

 

He will get a trial at some point, and if he does well, Giminez will be gone. I'm not fretting over that just yet.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I'll add to this.  Garver won't be starting every day if he's called up right now.

 

Garver has had very few at bats in the high minors, and while he's doing well, without question he could stand to learn a bit there I'm sure.

 

There's more to catching than offense.  It's an important defensive position, and there's very little defensively that he can do that we will see in his AAA box scores. 

 

He will get a trial at some point, and if he does well, Giminez will be gone. I'm not fretting over that just yet.

 

Garver won't be starting next year either, hopefully. Should he stay down next year also?

 

Admittedly, that's a snarky way to ask the question, but if the argument is he shouldn't come up because he won't play every day, that means we don't see him until 2019 or 2020.

 

And yes, we have no idea how good his defense is. 

[USAFChief]

 

What fan base reaction? There were posters here that wanted him non-tendered but that's about it. One thing we should be able to agree on is that based on his track record, Santiago is a competent MLB starting pitcher. He may be anywhere from a solid 3/weak 2 to a solid 5/ weak 4, but he's shown he belongs in an MLB rotation.  The only reason to non-– tender him would have been to create room for someone else and we've now seen in the first month of the season that we got much bigger issues and can create plenty of room for those someone elses, if they in fact exist outside of Berrios and Mejia, rather than by dumping Santiago. Non-tendering him for no return would have been the height of folly.

 

Now trading him at the deadline could make some sense if we can get a real return. That's the question and it's one we don't have to answer yet since we don't know the quality of the return. History tells us you tend to get a better return closer to the deadline that you do now, but I would be willing to trade him now if we can get a spectacular return. I just don't think we can. I also think that even if Berrios to Mejia  come up this year and show themselves to be good, solid major league starters  that Santiago is not the one to go. Gibson is the one to go, followed by Hughes, and that's base on overall performance in the last 3 years, not based on the first month of 2017. 

All of this.  Spot on.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Guys, look at the lineup. The starting regulars are all "young" players in terms of age and career arc except for Mauer at first, and Castro and Dozier are more in their prime years. Everybody else, the CF, LF, RF, SS, 3B and DH are younger developmental players who are playing every day.  I don't think it's fair to say that the present FO isn't giving the future players a chance. They are, where they see the right time in the development phase. The idea that this FO is tied to mediocre vets and won't give the young guys chance is directly contradicted by the daily lineup. 

 

They aren't doing that as much in the pitching staff. So you have to ask yourself, why are they willing to give opportunities to the players in the field but not so much to the pitchers? Their conduct suggest to me that they don't think the pitchers are advanced enough yet to be given that opportunity.  I think we're seeing clear conduct that shows us how this FO evaluates the talent they inherited. They like the position players. The pitchers, not so much.   It explains why Santiago is featured in the rotation, why Gibson and Hughes still start, and why Mejia and Tepesch (both from other organizations) are the first ones given a chance at the 5th starter spot. They think the larder is pretty bare of starting pitching and they are cautious about Berrios given his MLB track record. Outside of Berrios, I think they're right. There really isn't anyone else that can help now.  Duffy is a reliever, not a starter. I would love to see them send Gibson to AAA and replace him with Mejia or Berrios and I'm hopeful that we are one more crappy start from Gibson away from that happening (I'm thinking Gibson will oblige Thursday). Those are the only bullets they have, better use them correctly.       

 

that daily lineup was intact when they came (other than maybe Polanco at SS, but he'd be the backup to Escobar). What did the FO add to what was here? 

[yarnivek1972]

What fan base reaction? There were posters here that wanted him non-tendered but that's about it. One thing we should be able to agree on is that based on his track record, Santiago is a competent MLB starting pitcher. He may be anywhere from a solid 3/weak 2 to a solid 5/ weak 4, but he's shown he belongs in an MLB rotation. The only reason to non-– tender him would have been to create room for someone else and we've now seen in the first month of the season that we got much bigger issues and can create plenty of room for those someone elses, if they in fact exist outside of Berrios and Mejia, rather than by dumping Santiago. Non-tendering him for no return would have been the height of folly.

 

Now trading him at the deadline could make some sense if we can get a real return. That's the question and it's one we don't have to answer yet since we don't know the quality of the return. History tells us you tend to get a better return closer to the deadline that you do now, but I would be willing to trade him now if we can get a spectacular return. I just don't think we can. I also think that even if Berrios to Mejia come up this year and show themselves to be good, solid major league starters that Santiago is not the one to go. Gibson is the one to go, followed by Hughes, and that's base on overall performance in the last 3 years, not based on the first month of 2017.

Hughes isn't going anywhere. No one eats a $35 mil contract.