2017: Guess the date when Mauer surpasses Bumgarner in 2017 HRs

[Squirrel]

 

I'd like to see Mauer mix in an early-count aggressive swing once in a while.

That, I will agree with you on. So would I. But predicting the outcome of such a thing with the example you gave really doesn't work, imo. For all the reasons Brock gave. Yes, I wish Mauer would alter his approach at times ... if for no other reason to not be so predictable to opposing pitchers ... but calling for that with this at bat is not the gripe to make, again, imo.

[Craig Arko]

 

Alright who has the physics degree? We need answers to this....

This is not a question of Physics.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

That, I will agree with you on. So would I. But predicting the outcome of such a thing with the example you gave really doesn't work, imo. For all the reasons Brock gave. Yes, I wish Mauer would alter his approach at times ... if for no other reason to not be so predictable to opposing pitchers ... but calling for that with this at bat is not the gripe to make, again, imo.

For the record, I think we'd all like to see Mauer be more aggressive when he gets "his" pitch.

 

My real point in this thread is that pitch was very much not "his" pitch. That was the pitcher's pitch. Good hitters don't force an outcome on a pitcher's pitch because, if they did that regularly, they'd cease to be good hitters.*

 

*Vlad Guerrero, as usual, is exempted from this statement due to the fact he was Vlad Guerrero

[ewen21]

Moderator note -- we have had to delete some posts in this thread. Please take it easy with the sarcasm and personal attacks.

With that said there is no disputing that Joe has a penchant for taking too many pitches. This isn't about a single at bat. It is something he has always done and it has gotten progressively worse. Why sabatoge the discussion? Simple observation and an objective point of view should be enough for anyone here to acknowledge that. If that isn't enough to convince anyone then go to fan graphs and check.

 

I don't get the hostility that gets fired up when someone takes a jab at Joe. That's all the OP did. I don't get why Joe needs to be insulated from criticism. His approach is a problem. He no longer seems to have a happy zone. A pitch or a place in the strike zone where he takes his best cut. It's perplexing to me as I am sure it is to others.

[USAFChief]

 

I'd like to see Mauer mix in an early-count aggressive swing once in a while.

Concur.

 

And I'd like to see that in RBI situations.  Particularly against RH pitching.

[ewen21]

if you read the Reds' sites, you'd see Votto get ripped for the same thing. Mind. Boggling.

Votto still hits ropes into both gaps and over the fence.

 

Just sayin

[USAFChief]

 

With that said there is no disputing that Joe has a penchant for taking too many pitches. This isn't about a single at bat. It is something he has always done and it has gotten progressively worse. Why sabatoge the discussion? Simple observation and an objective point of view should be enough for anyone here to acknowledge that. If that isn't enough to convince anyone then go to fan graphs and check.

I don't get the hostility that gets fired up when someone takes a jab at Joe. That's all the OP did. I don't get why Joe needs to be insulated from criticism. His approach is a problem. He no longer seems to have a happy zone. A pitch or a place in the strike zone where he takes his best cut. It's perplexing to me as I am sure it is to others.

 

Concur.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Votto still hits ropes into both gaps and over the fence.

Just sayin

 

And yet the fans rip him for walking, and not swinging, when the pitches are bad.....that was the point. 

[ewen21]

Concur.

 

And I'd like to see that in RBI situations.  Particularly against RH pitching.

He's not a very good situational hitter. He takes the same approach in every single at bat. The more he does this the more he will take defensive swings and strike out.

[USAFChief]

 

Votto still hits ropes into both gaps and over the fence.

Just sayin

 

SLG below .491 once in his career.  Routinely well over .500.

 

He hits, in addition to walking.

[ewen21]

And yet the fans rip him for walking, and not swinging, when the pitches are bad.....that was the point.

 

Different player, different hitter.

 

Votto still smokes the baseball. Joe really doesn't

That was my point.

 

What fans are saying about Joey Votto doesn't concern me. Nor should that criticism invalidate criticism Joe gets for taking too many passive ABs with RiSP

[ewen21]

SLG below .491 once in his career.  Routinely well over .500.

 

He hits, in addition to walking.

Which makes it even more madden (I suppose) for Reds fans

 

His bat hasn't deteriorated

[Mike Sixel]

 

Different player, different hitter.

Votto still smokes the baseball. Joe really doesn't
That was my point.

What fans are saying about Joey Votto doesn't concern me. Nor should that criticism invalidate criticism Joe gets for taking too many passive ABs with RiSP

 

I'll try again:

 

I was responding to a post asking what other player would get ripped for walking in a run, and not swinging, like Mauer. I pointed out Votto is all the time. Nothing more or less than that. Did you read the quote I was responding to? 

 

It has nothing to do with anything, other than fans' responses, which was the discussion occurring.

[KirbyDome89]

 

This is not a question of Physics.

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss141/nataliya_carlson/The_Sarcasm_Misunderstanding_by_ThePlotThinnens_zpsa65f7933.jpg

[ewen21]

I'll try again:

 

I was responding to a post asking what other player would get ripped for walking in a run, and not swinging, like Mauer. I pointed out Votto is all the time. Nothing more or less than that. Did you read the quote I was responding to? 

 

It has nothing to do with anything, other than fans' responses, which was the discussion occurring.

Is anything I said wrong?

 

You brought Votto into the discussion. No hard feelings

[Mr. Brooks]

Physics disagrees with this statement.

 

How do you hammer a ball that is moving away from you, is knee high, and scraping the outside half of the zone?

 

Easy answer: you don't.

 

Wood made his pitch in that situation. He threw a pitch Mauer had little chance of turning into productive contact and got the called strike. He tried the same strategy on the next pitch and missed the zone, putting Mauer in a 3-1 situation.

 

The fifth pitch was shoulder high and backed Joe away from the plate. Another unhittable pitch called for a ball, putting Joe on first base.

 

And, again, you said that pitch was "right down the pipe". It was obviously not right down the pipe, as illustrated by an actual photo of the pitch. Here's the photo again, just to drive the point home.

 

 

I just grabbed a random heatmap for Miggy off a Google search. Notice how hard he tags those lower outer half of the plate pitches. Grip and rip, amirite?

 

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0814/cabrera_miguel_g_mp_576.jpg

Brock, you are probably right, as that is a tough spot for most hitters. But shouldn't we be looking at Mauer's heat map, and not Miggy's?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Brock, you are probably right, as that is a tough spot for most hitters. But shouldn't we be looking at Mauer's heat map, and not Miggy's?

I just grabbed a heatmap of a readily available player to show that's a hard place to hit the ball with authority.

 

I'd have to dig up my login credentials to find a heatmap for Mauer specifically.

[DrNeau]

Mauer had a nice hit today to LF. Anyone care to guess its location? Unhittable. Would like to see him keep that up.

 

Regardless of count (save for maybe 3-0), it should not be outside the scope of reason to take an aggressive hack at a strike. Especially if it is early in the count, bases juiced, and your cleanup hitter is up. Joe swung at a lower % of strikes than any player in MLB last year. I would like to see him swing at more strikes, yes. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Mauer had a nice hit today to LF. Anyone care to guess its location? Unhittable. Would like to see him keep that up.

1. I challenge you to find where I called the Opening Day pitch "unhittable".

 

2. Take a gander at which hand the pitcher is wearing his glove.

 

No pitch is entirely "unhittable", particularly a pitch in the strike zone... but there are low probability pitches and high probability pitches. A same-handed batter swinging at a pitch tailing away in the lower quarter of the zone is not a high probability pitch. The best case scenario is a hit down the line or looping it over the third baseman's head and even that's hard to pull off. Swing at that pitch 100 times and even the best hitters will put it on the ground more often than not.

[DrNeau]

 

[brock]

Physics disagrees with this statement.

How do you hammer a ball that is moving away from you, is knee high, and scraping the outside half of the zone?
 

Easy answer: you don't.

 

---------------

[brock]

1. I challenge you to find where I called the Opening Day pitch "unhittable".

 

2. Take a gander at which hand the pitcher is wearing his glove.

 

Mauer smoked that pitch pretty well, didn't he? Lefty or not. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Mauer smoked that pitch pretty well, didn't he? Lefty or not. The only reason Mauer swung at this one was because he had two strikes. Otherwise, he would have stood there and stared at it. 

You and I have very different definitions of the word "hammer".

 

It was a nice hit with nice contact. Again, it was also against a right-handed pitcher. 

[ewen21]

Mauer had a nice hit today to LF. Anyone care to guess its location? Unhittable. Would like to see him keep that up.

 

Regardless of count (save for maybe 3-0), it should not be outside the scope of reason to take an aggressive hack at a strike. Especially if it is early in the count, bases juiced, and your cleanup hitter is up. Joe swung at a lower % of strikes than any player in MLB last year. I would like to see him swing at more strikes, yes.

 

The last part is what is important. It's really the essence of this discussion and part of the reason why Mad Bum just might go yard more than he will this year. Isolating a single at bat is pointless. Forget that.

 

Mauer swung at a lower percentage of strikes than any other player last year. Case closed.

He takes too many STRIKES. I don't even care what the count is. When you let roughly half of the strikes thrown at you go by you are setting yourself up for trouble. This is why Joe takes so many defensive swings. He's in such a rut with how he approaches every single at bat. It is the same robotic approach over and over for the last few years.

 

Not sure what else there is to say. There really is no legitimate rebuttal for the paragraph above. It is what it is

[ewen21]

The bottom line is Joe won't adapt. It will be more of the same and because of his obvious propensity to spit on strikes he will pay for it. Heck, the Twins will pay for it.

 

Batting him cleanup is at the zenith of absurdity. I'm inclined to bat him 8th

[DrNeau]

 

There really is no legitimate rebuttal for the paragraph above. It is what it is

 

No, it's better to focus on the fact that the pitcher was a lefty in the AB from yesterday, something that I don't even really challenge in the first place. It's a smear tactic, just like ad-hominem arguments, and just like how the idea can be inserted that I am not "getting over Mauer's contract". 

[USAFChief]

I'll try again:

 

I was responding to a post asking what other player would get ripped for walking in a run, and not swinging, like Mauer. I pointed out Votto is all the time. Nothing more or less than that. Did you read the quote I was responding to? 

 

It has nothing to do with anything, other than fans' responses, which was the discussion occurring.

This particular thread aside, few "rip" Mauer for walking in a run, particularly in a PA where he is only thrown one strike.

 

And I obviously don't follow the Reds closely, but I doubt many would "rip" Votto for that either.

 

Fans responses to Mauer can be unfair, agreed.

 

On both sides. I don't think it's unfair to question whether Mauer is the best hitter he could be, based on his unwillingness to vary his approach based on the situation.

 

I know I'm just a Neanderthal who thinks that RBI are important in winning baseball games, but I think RBI matter in winning baseball games.

 

Sometimes a walk is great. Sometimes, someone needs to lace a double to a gap somewhere.

[Brock Beauchamp]

No, it's better to focus on the fact that the pitcher was a lefty in the AB from yesterday, something that I don't even really challenge in the first place. It's a smear tactic, just like ad-hominem arguments, and just like how the idea can be inserted that I am not "getting over Mauer's contract".

It's not a smear tactic when you're the one who first brought up and complained about the plate appearance.

 

You literally complained about a run-scoring walk. Full stop.

[Brock Beauchamp]

And to clarify, I think we all roll our eyes on occasion when Mauer steps to the plate and puts the bat on his shoulder for the first pitch. Sometimes it's the right thing to do but sometimes, it's infuriating.

 

It's fine to criticize Mauer; I suspect we all have our own personal gripes about his hitting style. Personally, I'd like to see him start making a legitimate attempt to pull the ball on occasion, even if it results in a few more swings and misses. I'd also like to see him just swing at the first damned pitch on occasion.

 

If I built a lineup, Mauer is definitely not my cleanup hitter. No question about that.

 

But when the same posters make the same complaints about the same players, it's tiresome. We get it. You don't like Mauer much and dislike his plate approach. We know. How do we know? You've already told us 100 times.

 

So maybe it's time to go ahead and start a thread about literally anyone else in the Twins organization and get the hell off Mauer's back for a minute.

[DrNeau]

Comparison of pitches that were argued can be seen here. 

 

[drjim]

As mentioned, handedness of the pitcher matters for those pitches.

 

But I think count really matters. Hitters are going to have a different approach on 1-0 vs 1-2. And they should.

[Pius Jefferson]

There's going to be plenty of opportunities to be frustrated over Joe Mauer. His pitch selection and home runs totals are at the bottom of the list.