Article: Twins Add Six Players To 40-Man Roster

[wagwan]

Kudos to nick nelson 6 for 6 predicting who would be added to the roster. twinsdaily keeps showing they know this team ...

[JaleelWhite FanClub]

With Gordon, Polanco, Arraez, Escobar, etc. in the organization, I'm not too high on Vielma. I want a little bat at every position. For all the highlight-reel plays he's made, how valuable is Andrelton Simmons? IMO, I'd rather have a Jeter type at SS who can really hit. I think Gordon is that guy.

 

I'm with the group hoping ABW makes the Twins regret this. I think in the new analytical world his K rates made him unnecessarily frowned upon. Big and consistent HR and RBI totals are pretty rare these days. Good luck to him.

[drivlikejehu]

 

With Gordon, Polanco, Arraez, Escobar, etc. in the organization, I'm not too high on Vielma. I want a little bat at every position. For all the highlight-reel plays he's made, how valuable is Andrelton Simmons? IMO, I'd rather have a Jeter type  SS who can really hit. I think Gordon is that guy.

I'm with the group hoping ABW makes the Twins regret this. I think in the new analytical world his K rates made him unnecessarily frowned upon. Big and consistent HR and RBI totals are pretty rare these days. Goo'

 

In a full season, Simmons is worth 3-4 WAR (injuries have cut into his playing time a bit in the past 2 years - but just talking skill set here). That's good for 5-10 range across MLB at the position. In other words, a well above-average starting player.

 

However, Simmons is a far better hitter than Vielma. The stronger comparison is with John McDonald, who played 14 seasons due to his defensive wizardry - but always in a part time role. His career WAR total was 0.7. I hope Vielma can improve to the point where he can provide a little more offense as part of a super-utility role.

 

The 'analytical world' has most definitely not made hitter strikeouts more frowned upon. The exact opposite is true. However, at a certain point they become a symptom of a larger problem.

[Homer Hanky]

Juan is Gone.... now @ 38 

[Seth Stohs]

 

Juan is Gone.... now @ 38 

 

They're at 39 counting Centeno being outrighted.

[Homer Hanky]

 

They're at 39 counting Centeno being outrighted.

Thanks Seth for clarifying... #sethisbesttwinsfanever

 

[Oldgoat_MN]

I haven't been flamed for a while, so I'll see what this inspires...

 

1. I do not understand why so many are fine with letting Grossman go. Is he pretty at the plate or in the field? No, but he had the highest OBP on the team. I would expect a site based on analytics would appreciate that.

 

2. Jason Wheeler and DJ Baxendale are 25 years old, but they both had better numbers in AAA than Albers or Dean. Lower WHIP, higher SO rates and better SO/BB rates.

 

Not that a team should measure a pitcher's MLB potential on Albers and Dean, but our new FO must see some pitching potential that the last members of the FO missed.

[Mr. Brooks]

I haven't been flamed for a while, so I'll see what this inspires...

 

1. I do not understand why so many are fine with letting Grossman go. Is he pretty at the plate or in the field? No, but he had the highest OBP on the team. I would expect a site based on analytics would appreciate that.

 

2. Jason Wheeler and DJ Baxendale are 25 years old, but they both had better numbers in AAA than Albers or Dean. Lower WHIP, higher SO rates and better SO/BB rates.

 

Not that a team should measure a pitcher's MLB potential on Albers and Dean, but our new FO must see some pitching potential that the last members of the FO missed.

Grossman gives all that OBP, plus some away in the field.

In my opinion, he literally cannot be allowed to play in the field, not even for 1 game.

That leaves DH. Do his hitting numbers look as pretty at DH? Do you keep him over Vargas and Park?

I don't know the answers to those.

But if he's allowed to see 1 more inning in the field then I've already lost faith in this FO.

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

Grossman gives all that OBP, plus some away in the field.
In my opinion, he literally cannot be allowed to play in the field, not even for 1 game.
That leaves DH. Do his hitting numbers look as pretty at DH? Do you keep him over Vargas and Park?
I don't know the answers to those.
But if he's allowed to see 1 more inning in the field then I've already lost faith in this FO.

 

So I looked up his fielding numbers on FanGraphs.

 

Valid points...

 

[The Wise One]

 

I don't believe waivers go by league anymore now that the season is over.

Waiver pickups seem to go by leagues when the players are waived even during the off season. Minor leagues are not aligned by major league teams so the reason wouldn't be familiarity.

[Bob Sacamento]

 

I haven't been flamed for a while, so I'll see what this inspires...

 

1. I do not understand why so many are fine with letting Grossman go. Is he pretty at the plate or in the field? No, but he had the highest OBP on the team. I would expect a site based on analytics would appreciate that.

Well let me analytic that, Grossman is setup for a substancial regression in 2017. His 2017 is likely to be what Danny Santana's 2015 was after everyone thought his 2014 was so spectacular for all the same reasons.

 

 Grossman had a BABIP of .364 which is .030 higher than his career average, (for those who don't know .290-.300 is an average BABIP while .350 is a great hitter) meaning it's not sustainable and he was pretty lucky in 2016. Add in that his line drive career rate of 23.4 went to 25.3%, his groundball rate dropped from his career of 42.3 to 37.8% plus his HR/FB ratio jumped from 9.1% to 12.8% plus his ISO jumped from .121 career line to a .163.  Grossman is set for an offensive regression from his .280/.386/.443 of 2016.  Think .250/.350/.380 with horrible defense in the outfield for 2017.

[Seth Stohs]

 

Well let me analytic that, Grossman is setup for a substancial regression in 2017. His 2017 is likely to be what Danny Santana's 2015 was after everyone thought his 2014 was so spectacular for all the same reasons.

 

 Grossman had a BABIP of .364 which is .030 higher than his career average, (for those who don't know .290-.300 is an average BABIP while .350 is a great hitter) meaning it's not sustainable and he was pretty lucky in 2016. Add in that his line drive career rate of 23.4 went to 25.3%, his groundball rate dropped from his career of 42.3 to 37.8% plus his HR/FB ratio jumped from 9.1% to 12.8% plus his ISO jumped from .121 career line to a .163.  Grossman is set for an offensive regression from his .280/.386/.443 of 2016.  Think .250/.350/.380 with horrible defense in the outfield for 2017.

 

While I agree that he's definitely a regression candidate, Grossman's approach at the plate compared to Santana's are night and day. Because of that, Grossman can be alright. He takes a lot of pitches, earns a lot of walks. HE also can hit right-handed making hi ma platoon candidate. I don't see much value for Santana at this point. Maybe he goes elsewhere, and if so, I hope he does well. 

 

I personally expect both will come off the 40-man roster when free agents are signed yet this offseason, so probably much ado about nothing. 

 

[zenser]

Does anyone know of a list or link to players eligible to be selected in the rule 5 draft?

[nicksaviking]

I wouldn't be sad to lose Grossman, but his ability to get on base is kind of rare in the organization right now. He doesn't need to be in the field, but he's a pretty decent pinch hit option late in the game if the catcher is up and you just need a base runner.

 

Now personally I'd hate to carry a guy on the 25-man for that singular specific reason, however if rosters are expanded to 26 I don't think any of us can predict what the best dynamic for each team will be for that one extra spot until we start seeing these situations play out.

 

Well, I mean I can probably already predict that most of us hope it doesn't mean adding an 8th arm to the bullpen.

[Twins33]

 

Does anyone know of a list or link to players eligible to be selected in the rule 5 draft?

Baseball America always creates a list prior to the draft. Not sure if they have already or not.

[kab21]

 

Well let me analytic that, Grossman is setup for a substancial regression in 2017. His 2017 is likely to be what Danny Santana's 2015 was after everyone thought his 2014 was so spectacular for all the same reasons.

 

 Grossman had a BABIP of .364 which is .030 higher than his career average, (for those who don't know .290-.300 is an average BABIP while .350 is a great hitter) meaning it's not sustainable and he was pretty lucky in 2016. Add in that his line drive career rate of 23.4 went to 25.3%, his groundball rate dropped from his career of 42.3 to 37.8% plus his HR/FB ratio jumped from 9.1% to 12.8% plus his ISO jumped from .121 career line to a .163.  Grossman is set for an offensive regression from his .280/.386/.443 of 2016.  Think .250/.350/.380 with horrible defense in the outfield for 2017.

I see Grossman as Gene Larkin. He isn't great but that is why he is a bench bat. And I can definitely live with a .350 OBP and a little pop from a backup. 

I am of the opinion that a player like Palka should be up in a starting role or in the minors until a starting role opens up. It doesn't bother me if Grossman sits for 4 or 5 straight days with just 1 PH appearance. He isn't developing whereas the younger bats need playing time.

[Squirrel]

 

Baseball America always creates a list prior to the draft. Not sure if they have already or not.

There is a thread in the main forum that has that and there has been some discussion. Check it out here:

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/24357-rule-5-draft/

[Platoon]

I see Grossman as Gene Larkin. He isn't great but that is why he is a bench bat. And I can definitely live with a .350 OBP and a little pop from a backup. 

I am of the opinion that a player like Palka should be up in a starting role or in the minors until a starting role opens up. It doesn't bother me if Grossman sits for 4 or 5 straight days with just 1 PH appearance. He isn't developing whereas the younger bats need playing time.

Robbie may be like Larkin, but that was when bench spots were easier to come by. The seemingly 24 man pitching staff makes roster decisions different now than then. That said, RG just cannot be left loose in the OF. He makes DanSan look like Torii Hunter. And whether he could be construed a s a DH bat, that's a position over populated already. Watching Robbie play OF is bad for the analytical crowd. They see him on the field, in action, and end up throwing their laptop at the tv!

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

Robbie may be like Larkin, but that was when bench spots were easier to come by. The seemingly 24 man pitching staff makes roster decisions different now than then. That said, RG just cannot be left loose in the OF. He makes DanSan look like Torii Hunter. And whether he could be construed a s a DH bat, that's a position over populated already. Watching Robbie play OF is bad for the analytical crowd. They see him on the field, in action, and end up throwing their laptop at the tv!

 

Robbie is hard on electronics.