Game Thread: Twins @ Red Sox, 7/24 @ 12:35pm CT

[Jham]

Man a lot of things to like about this weekend's series, but watching Buxton and Sano fail is troubling to me. I'd love to see some progress that involves the corner stones and not the guys around them.

[Circus Boy]

Good fight in deze guyz.

[spinowner]

Dang, I guess splitting with the Sox is not bad but today's game was winnable. All part of the learning curve for the youngsters, I suppose. Just gotta keep in mind that Sano is only 23 and Buxton is only 22. I'm guessing that 4 years from now their contributions to today's loss will become contributions in the other direction.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Well, look on the bright side.

 

The Twins will use Sano's error to justify giving Milone another couple starts!

[Mr. Brooks]

Man a lot of things to like about this weekend's series, but watching Buxton and Sano fail is troubling to me. I'd love to see some progress that involves the corner stones and not the guys around them.

If you expected Sano to be a good defender you were reading the wrong scouting reports. Sano is here for his bat. I don't see how anyone can be disappointed in his development in that regard.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Dang, I guess splitting with the Sox is not bad but today's game was winnable. All part of the learning curve for the youngsters, I suppose. Just gotta keep in mind that Sano is only 23 and Buxton is only 22. I'm guessing that 4 years from now their contributions to today's loss will become contributions in the other direction.

I like it. Thanks.

[adorduan]

 

wrong, but you've made your point

He's not wrong.

[h2oface]

Nunezee is remembering he's Eduardo Nunez.

He can't be traded quick enough. .143, 4/28 in his last 7 games, and 0/5 today. Last 15 games not pretty either. Allstar my ass. But Molitor keeps batting him leadoff.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

He's not wrong.

you win.

[dgwills]

 

If you expected Sano to be a good defender you were reading the wrong scouting reports. Sano is here for his bat. I don't see how anyone can be disappointed in his development in that regard.

He also lost a year to Tommy John surgery and a year to DH and Right field. There's reason to believe he could end up league average or a little below. We're just going to have to live with the errors for a while to see.

[h2oface]

That Antony sure is quiet

Tick tock.

[h2oface]

Sano has the tools. Just needs slowed down and focused. And needs to catch 50 pop ups a day for a month.

[h2oface]

Another exciting game from Mauer......

[adorduan]

 

If you expected Sano to be a good defender you were reading the wrong scouting reports. Sano is here for his bat. I don't see how anyone can be disappointed in his development in that regard.

Maybe not good, but average was thrown around a lot.  He's not even close to that.  And frankly, I get the feeling he doesn't really care. He knows his bat will keep him in the lineup, even if it's only DH.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

He also lost a year to Tommy John surgery and a year to DH and Right field. There's reason to believe he could end up league average or a little below. We're just going to have to live with the errors for a while to see.

Agree. He can make the difficult play, which I wish people would acknowledge. The rest of it could be just a matter of maturity and a little hard work, and those are things that can be fixed.

[Aggies7]

Another exciting game from Mauer......

He's been a non factor for far too long.

 

Fenway was a fun time though

[Mr. Brooks]

Maybe not good, but average was thrown around a lot. He's not even close to that. And frankly, I get the feeling he doesn't really care. He knows his bat will keep him in the lineup, even if it's only DH.

I think average was probably thrown around as his ceiling.

Guys who are not natural fielders sometimes take a few years to hit their defensive peak.

I'm not sure he can ever get to average defensively, but maybe in a few years he could be adequate.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm not sure he can ever get to average defensively, but maybe in a few years he could be adequate.

This is kinda my thought and it doesn't cost much to find out. Whether the Twins finish the season with 64 or 66 wins is largely irrelevant.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

He can't be traded quick enough. .143, 4/28 in his last 7 games, and 0/5 today. Last 15 games not pretty either. Allstar my ass. But Molitor keeps batting him leadoff.

A 7-15 game slump in the midst of a very strong season does not strike me as an oddity.

 

It happens all the time for all players.

[spinowner]

 

And frankly, I get the feeling he doesn't really care.

Based on what? I don't get that feeling.

[ashbury]

Fenway was a fun time though

Where were your seats?

 

I don't know if you saw my post at the tail end of last night's game thread, but my son and I got to witness Ricky Nolasco lead his team to a fun win. I am coming to appreciate Sox fans - sounds like you had a similar experience.

[Jham]

If you expected Sano to be a good defender you were reading the wrong scouting reports. Sano is here for his bat. I don't see how anyone can be disappointed in his development in that regard.

Defense? I mean yes that is upsetting, but i was referring to the hitting. Are you telling me you see improvement in sano and Buxton this year? Defensively, offensively, spiritually, cullinarily, anything?

[Mr. Brooks]

Defense? I mean yes that is upsetting, but i was referring to the hitting. Are you telling me you see improvement in sano and Buxton this year? Defensively, offensively, spiritually, cullinarily, anything?

Improvement offensively from Sano was going to be pretty tough this year, considering his scorching rookie year.

He's 23 and has a career .872 OPS. I mean what do you want from the guy? Mike Trout? AROD? Hank Aaron?

Ripping Sano's defense is one thing, there is nothing wrong with his bat.

[Jham]

Improvement offensively from Sano was going to be pretty tough this year, considering his scorching rookie year.

He's 23 and has a career .872 OPS. I mean what do you want from the guy? Mike Trout? AROD? Hank Aaron?

Ripping Sano's defense is one thing, there is nothing wrong with his bat.

You may be reading too much into my statement. I was referring to Buxtons strike out and Sano making the final out of the game. That's it. Disappointing that each are still looking for that aha moment. If Sano is a finished product, i am disappointed. He certainly has not improved on last year, and really after his first month, he's really been... well he certainly hasn't improved. If that indicates he's hit his ceiling, low ball hitting less powerful Nelson Cruzish masher with no defensive value, well i am disappointed. Sorry i had higher expectations for the kid after his rookie season and Cabrera comps. Who do you think we should compare Sano to? Neither seem very capable of lifting or carrying a team right now. But yeah Sano's defense is concerning.

[Mr. Brooks]

You may be reading too much into my statement. I was referring to Buxtons strike out and Sano making the final out of the game. That's it. Disappointing that each are still looking for that aha moment. If Sano is a finished product, i am disappointed. He certainly has not improved on last year, and really after his first month, he's really been... well he certainly hasn't improved. If that indicates he's hit his ceiling, low ball hitting less powerful Nelson Cruzish masher with no defensive value, well i am disappointed. Sorry i had higher expectations for the kid after his rookie season and Cabrera comps. Who do you think we should compare Sano to? Neither seem very capable of lifting or carrying a team right now. But yeah Sano's defense is concerning.

Well surely the REAL good hitters would never make the last out of a game, so I can see how that would be concerning.

Who would ever say Sano is a finished product? He's 23 years old, he's going to get even better.

I just meant, statistically speaking, he was probably going to take a small step back this year before he takes a few steps forward. I think you under appreciate just how good Sano was last year.

I don't know who we should compare him to, I'm not even saying he can't hit like those guys some day. But if that is your minimum expectation from day 1, well that is setting the bar too high.

 

As for Cruz to Sano, let the numbers speak for themselves.

 

Sano through first 627 PA (23 years old):

82 runs, 28 2b, 33 HR, 90 rbi, 91 bb, 216 k, .260/.368/.504 (.872)

 

Cruz through first 611 PA (28 years old) :

70 runs, 28 2b, 22 HR, 82 rbi, 47 bb, 147k, .251/.311/.393 (.704)

 

Sano is 5 years younger and already has 168 points of OPS in his corner.

[Jham]

Well surely the REAL good hitters would never make the last out of a game, so I can see how that would be concerning.

Who would ever say Sano is a finished product? He's 23 years old, he's going to get even better.

I just meant, statistically speaking, he was probably going to take a small step back this year before he takes a few steps forward. I think you under appreciate just how good Sano was last year.

I don't know who we should compare him to, I'm not even saying he can't hit like those guys some day. But if that is your minimum expectation from day 1, well that is setting the bar too high.

 

As for Cruz to Sano, let the numbers speak for themselves.

 

Sano through first 627 PA (23 years old):

82 runs, 28 2b, 33 HR, 90 rbi, 91 bb, 216 k, .260/.368/.504 (.872)

 

Cruz through first 611 PA (28 years old) :

70 runs, 28 2b, 22 HR, 82 rbi, 47 bb, 147k, .251/.311/.393 (.704)

 

Sano is 5 years younger and already has 168 points of OPS in his corner.

Listen, I get that players can improve without having a "signature" game. Sano had a stretch last year where he showed a glimpse of his potential. We're still waiting for evidence that Buxton will ever hit, even in stretches, and despite your supposed expectation of regression, you could still hope for progress and hope for a month or two this year like his first month last year. (Could still happen). So you can appreciate a sophomore slump and still be disappointed when it happens. Same way I can expect Buxton to strike out and not expect a HR from Sano and still be disappointed. I guess you are happy with the rate of development with our 2 biggest stars. I'm less so. I'm also not sure Sano is really 23...

 

Interesting graphic with Cruz. Interesting that the walls and k's are so much higher, but the BA are similar indicating a babip differential unless it's just the difference in hr.

 

So to be clear, I've been pumping the breaks with Sano all season. It seems like everyone forgot about his September swoon last year. Now he has a hole in his swing up high, no position, and a seeming lack of coachability and fitness. I did expect he'd have played himself into better condition by now. I still have high hopes, but the results have been a bit frustrating thy far.