Does Bad Pitching Make Defense Worse?

[stringer bell]

No one questions that bad defense makes pitching look worse than it is. We need go no further than today's ballgame vs. Cleveland to see examples--trailing 2-0 Kyle Gibson induces a double play grounder to short, the ball is bobbled, but a force out is made, leaving a runner on first with two outs. The next batter hits a drive that carried to deep center. Danny Santana misjudged and misplayed the ball into a double. The two runners score on the next pitch, a solid single to left and Gibson gets charged with two tainted, but earned runs.

 

I want to consider things from the other side. In the series this weekend, Brian Dozier was involved in two double plays not turned, one on Friday where he hesitated before making the throw to second and the bobbled grounder in today's game. According to fielding metrics, is Dozier bad at double plays because both of these opportunities weren't turned? I sincerely don't know, but factors outside of Dozier's skills precipitated both miscues.

 

The Twins have allowed something like 150 more base runners than Cleveland has this year, despite the fact that Twins pitchers have hurled more than twenty innings less than their counterparts from Cleveland. Base runners put pressure on defenses. They force more throws and also like Dozier's mistake on Friday night force the fielders to make tough decisions. Bad pitching also means trailing in a lot of games and trying to prevent runs by gambling--making ill-advised throws to stops runners from advancing or scoring, going for tough double plays instead of taking the sure out and perhaps trying to dive to make a catch rather than playing a ball safe for one base.

 

As I said about Dozier's inability to turn two different double plays, I don't know for sure if the instances I pointed out above are figured in for fielding metrics, but I would presume if the metrics are comprehensive that they would be. I think the pressure of being behind and needing to make risky plays to keep in games would make a team's defense look worse than it really is.

[CampQ]

What an interesting question. That may be a tenet of aggressive offensive approaches--send the runner because he might be safe, he might force a bad throw, etc.

We do know baserunners tend to make pitchers less effective--pitching from the stretch vs pitching from the windup is a disadvantage to the pitcher. Or so I am told, having never pitched from either

[The Wise One]

The premise would be incorrect. A bad defense would lead to more runners on base. Great pitching is still going to have issues with bad defense. The pitchers the Twins have now are no less mediocre than the ones not called Johan or Brad  from over 10 years ago. Defense matters 

 

[Platoon]

I could see that possibl low SO pitchers, and pitchers who allow a lot of "loud" contact affect defense. Catching a screaming line drive in the gap is far more difficult than catching a pop up at third base! . But as to the Twins specifically, I have made this point before. For whatever reason, management seems to put far more emphasis, at least now, on offense than defense. For example, Nunez and EE when hitting well, are still not anywhere near elite SS defensively. Their hitting may contribute to the teams success, and mitigate their fieding negatives, but it still leaves your pitchers with less defensive support. Also, a lot of the teams defensive problems seem to be mental. Poor communication on pop ups, throwing to wrong bases, missing cutoff men. Not knowing where you were going to throw the ball, BEFORE it was hit to you. IF in the OF. This team is sorely lacking in basic fundamentals!

[Mike Sixel]

Of course, they've allowed more base runners partly because this team does not value defense.....terrible.

[Thrylos]

Yes it does.  In addition to base runners mentioned, which makes 100% sense, if you lead the league in HRs (like the Twins Ps do,)  the OFs tend to play deeper, so you see balls drop.  Also, if the innings last long time with pitching changes, manager trips, catcher trips etc, (some) fielders are prone to attention/concentration gaps.   Indeed the Twins have the worst fielding % in the league as well... 

[Monkeypaws]

If true, the Twins better rethink the whole "pitch to contact" philosophy.

 

That aside, I would think more reps would make you better at something, not worse.

[The Wise One]

 

If true, the Twins better rethink the whole "pitch to contact" philosophy.

 

That aside, I would think more reps would make you better at something, not worse.

Anderson left the team. Gardy left the team. Johns has drafted more power arms for a quite a few years now. Ryan had traded for a more strikeout capable pitcher or two. Maybe that was the organization philosophical difference, Gardy got into Pohlad's ear and whispered they will never win without pitch to contact. Gardy turned on Ryan.  (for the few who need the disclaimer) Not being serious that it was Gardy

[goulik]

Pace of the pitcher IS a major issue for fielders. Brad Radke was not known for striking people out, he was known for how he managed a game. No walks, keep the pace going, keep the defense involved. Hitters would try to throw him off by stepping out a lot to change that pace.

Also, quality of pitching affects the morale of the team behind them. How many times have we seen no hitters preserved by tremendous defensive plays behind them. When a pitcher is cruising, the defense gets locked in with increased intensity to NOT be the guy that screws this thing up!

[goulik]

Ok, I admit I set myself up for it so I will make the come back myself:

 

"But those no hitters are always pitched against us"

 

There, I said it before you did...

[diehardtwinsfan]

I'd argue that bad pitching can make defense worse, and bad defense can make pitching worse. I've played/watched enough games to see examples of both.

 

Anyone remember watching Jose Lima back in the day?