The future 6 in Minnesota

[jsteve96]

It has been 15 years since the Minnesota Twins last had an All Star shortstop, his name was Christian Guzman. The position is now loaded with highly regarded prospects. The Twins have 5 guys in MLB.com's top 21 Twins prospects and the lowest ranked one coming off a crazy season at age 19. Which of these four players do you think will be the future shortstop for the Twins in the future?

 

1)Engelb Vielma:  After June 1st in 2015, Vielma put up a solid slash line at the plate of .320/.379/.355 for a .734 OPS along with stealing 35 bases on the year. He is known as a defensive wiz but is looking like maybe he's learning to hit as we've all been watching his start in spring training this year. He'll likely start the year in Chattanooga.

 

2)Jermaine Palacios: As a 19 year old in the GCL/APPY league, Palacios showed that he was up for the task, even while being 2.5 years younger than his average competition. His total slash was .370/.398/.540 between the 2 leagues. He has showed he can hit but defensively he had .918 fielding % which causes a concern to us fans. He'll likely start the year in Cedar Rapids.

 

3)Nick Gordon: The 20 year old, Gordon, was 2.4 years younger than his average competition in 2015 which could be why his bat looked soft at the beginning of the season but he picked it up. After June 1st, Gordon batted .310 with a solid .356 OBP along with a .411 SLG% which got him a .767 OPS after June 1st. The bat is expected to come soon and be right up there with his solid defensive play and threat on the bases. Gordon stole 25 bases in 33 attempts in 2015.

 

4)Jorge Polanco: It seems like this kid has been around forever but he's still only 22 years old. A lot believe he's a 2nd baseman in the long run but with Brian Dozier locked down at 2nd base the next few years he will need to play SS to get playing time in the MLB. In 2015 he slashed .288/.339/.386 for a .725 OPS. He also had 19 stolen bases to go with it. Defensively he has very good range but he made 28 errors and had a .934 fielding %

 

         Leave comments on which player you think will be the shortstop in the long run, ignore the rankings and lets just hear your opinion on these players.

       Have a nice day Twins fans!

 

 

[bluechipper]

I'm a big Jorge Polanco, fan, mostly because he can really hit. The reports that I've been reading on top prospects lists this offseason also seem to be indicating that he can handle playing shortstop, which is contrary to what has been said at other times.

 

The only other guy from the list is Nick Gordon, who looks like he should be able to do everything above average besides hitting for power to this point. Vielma can't hit and Palacios might not be able to stick there defensively, but I'm really looking forward to what he does offensively in a full season this year.

[Thrylos]

Should be Polanco's job to have. 

 

I like Palacios a lot but his glove is a work in progress at this point.  He is a feather in the wind as well, much skinnier than even Vielma

 

I would like to see more that what I have seen from Gordon:  For what is worth, Niko Goodrum had much better numbers at Gordon's 2 stops, albeit a year older.  Need to make sure that Nick will not turn into Niko.

Vielma has excellent instincts and athleticism, and has improved with the stick, but he has concentration lapses similar to Danny Santana in all aspects of his game.   Lots of potential here, but he really needs to tighten it up.

 

You actually left someone out who might end up having a better career than all of them at SS,  17 year old Wander Javier.

 

In my 2016 prospects list (links will go to their profiles in those rankings, for more information), I had:

 

Javier 7th

Palacios 8th

Gordon 9th

Vielma 23rd

 

Polanco graduated from my list (because my criteria are different) but I am probably one of his biggest fans.  In my 2015 list, he ranked second (link to his profile there,) behind only Miguel Sano and ahead of Byron Buxton.  Same age with Buxton, much ahead with the stick, average to potential above average defense.  I'd dare to say that Jeter might be a good comparable as far as his ceiling goes.

[jsteve96]

 

Should be Polanco's job to have. 

 

I like Palacios a lot but his glove is a work in progress at this point.  He is a feather in the wind as well, much skinnier than even Vielma

 

I would like to see more that what I have seen from Gordon:  For what is worth, Niko Goodrum had much better numbers at Gordon's 2 stops, albeit a year older.  Need to make sure that Nick will not turn into Niko.

Vielma has excellent instincts and athleticism, and has improved with the stick, but he has concentration lapses similar to Danny Santana in all aspects of his game.   Lots of potential here, but he really needs to tighten it up.

 

You actually left someone out who might end up having a better career than all of them at SS,  17 year old Wander Javier.

 

In my 2016 prospects list (links will go to their profiles in those rankings, for more information), I had:

 

Javier 7th

Palacios 8th

Gordon 9th

Vielma 23rd

 

Polanco graduated from my list (because my criteria are different) but I am probably one of his biggest fans.  In my 2015 list, he ranked second (link to his profile there,) behind only Miguel Sano and ahead of Byron Buxton.  Same age with Buxton, much ahead with the stick, average to potential above average defense.  I'd dare to say that Jeter might be a good comparable as far as his ceiling goes.

Good stuff here. I didn't want to throw the guy in that won't be in the Big leagues for at least 5 years. I like your list but Gordon was 2 years younger in A  not just a year and finished strong. He has filled out a lot this offseason as well... Also I think Vielma is a little underrated on your scale. He's a very good fielder and the bat is coming. the last 3 months he was hitting like a shortstop should and he stole 35 bags. As for Palacios I think he will grow into his frame, 6 feet tall 145 pounds at age 19. he'll put on some weight and fill out and help that already dangerous bat.

[Halsey Hall]

Vielma will end up having more years than any of the others.

[Ben Noble]

Vielma. That defense is legit and I love the 35 steals last year. He doesn't have to hit to have an impact on the game, and he's young and skinny enough that the bat might still come around a little.

[bluechipper]

 

Vielma. That defense is legit and I love the 35 steals last year. He doesn't have to hit to have an impact on the game, and he's young and skinny enough that the bat might still come around a little.

No matter how good of a fielder Vielma is, there will be better options than him at SS. I can't support having a guy who projects to have a low .600 OPS having a regular starting job.

[Thrylos]

 

No matter how good of a fielder Vielma is, there will be better options than him at SS. I can't support having a guy who projects to have a low .600 OPS having a regular starting job.

 

Depends. 

 

There was a SS by the name of Rey Ordonez who has a career .600 OPS and he was 3 times gold glover and was a pretty big reason the Mets were who they were in their postseason and WS years

 

And there is another SS with a career .666 OPS who is in the Hall of Fame.

 

The issue with Vielma is that his glove is not Rey Ordonez or Ozzie Smith like...

[nicksaviking]

Vielma. That defense is legit and I love the 35 steals last year. He doesn't have to hit to have an impact on the game, and he's young and skinny enough that the bat might still come around a little.

We all like to think that until he gets to the majors. See Pedro Florimon. No one was satisfied with that.

[Bob Sacamento]

No matter how good of a fielder Vielma is, there will be better options than him at SS. I can't support having a guy who projects to have a low .600 OPS having a regular starting job.

So I take you are not a fan of Andrelton Simmons, who despite posting a 75 and a 86 OPS+ the past two years his WAR was 3.3 and 4.0, which means he was VERY valuable even with his poor bat. I'm not saying Vielma is Simmons but he does have a very good glove at SS. Having seen Palacios play this summer, his glove at SS was down right atrocious even with work he's probably better suited for 2b, 3b.

[jsteve96]

 

No matter how good of a fielder Vielma is, there will be better options than him at SS. I can't support having a guy who projects to have a low .600 OPS having a regular starting job.

hard to say he can't ever hit when he's still just 21. finished season good.. Simmons  has a career .666 OPS and i don't think too many people complain..

[Hrbowski]

Gordon. His defense is better than Polanco's, and should hit just as well, if not better.

[Seth Stohs]

Gordon, but I am immensely intrigued by Vielma. 

 

With him, I just don't think OPS matters much. He's great defensively, and just simply won't have power. So he needs to be about BA and OBP. I think if he could be a .250/.300 type (which I think is a big question mark), he could be very valuable.

 

But if Vielma can do enough offensively and play that kind of defense then I would say he'll be at short and Gordon will slide over to 2B. I definitely think that Gordon can play SS, but that combination of Vielma and Gordon up the middle, that could be fun to watch for years. 

 

Throw Buxton in CF and the Twins up-the-middle defense will be incredible!

 

Also, from photos I've seen of Palacios the last month, he definitely does seem bigger and stronger. I know he's been part of the strength program that they have had in Ft. Myers, and he got to spring training pretty early. I don't konw what he weighs. I don't believe he was at 145 last year, and I would (complete guess) he's closer to 165 which puts him right on track. 

[bluechipper]

 

hard to say he can't ever hit when he's still just 21. finished season good.. Simmons  has a career .666 OPS and i don't think too many people complain..

Vielma has a .631 OPS in the minors compared to Simmons' .749. I would be surprised if Vielma could produce better than that .631 facing MLB pitching.

[Jham]

Polanco.  All things considered, he's the surest bet to have an MLB career.  He's already an adequate hitter, and an adequate fielder. The others will have to catch up and improve one aspect or another. If we believe they will improve, we can also fairly expect some continued progression from Polanco. I love his aggressiveness and willingness to compete. He's never looked over-matched or intimidated at the big league level.  He swings like he wants to hit for some power, and he has only to improve marginally to be as good as the guy in front of him, who in fairness, probably deserves to be mentioned in this thread as a player who has already improved and taken steps we're trying to extrapolate out of the kids chasing him.

[bluechipper]

 

So I take you are not a fan of Andrelton Simmons, who despite posting a 75 and a 86 OPS+ the past two years his WAR was 3.3 and 4.0, which means he was VERY valuable even with his poor bat. I'm not saying Vielma is Simmons but he does have a very good glove at SS. Having seen Palacios play this summer, his glove at SS was down right atrocious even with work he's probably better suited for 2b, 3b.

Andrelton Simmons may be one of the best defensive shortstops to ever play, am I right on that?

 

I think a better comparison would be like trying to justify having a Brendan Ryan type of player in your lineup. Very good defense, but nothing with the bat, I think there will always be better options than that.

[DocBauer]

First of all, I think it's very, very cool that we can be talking about so many talented young prospects with this kind of potential. It seems only yesterday we didn't have much of anything at 2B or SS, and now we have Dozier and Escobar with a couple interesting bench options in Santana and Nunez, all these young SS prospects, and a couple others, and 2B options, not even listed! While the future positions, or possible movements, of Sano and Dozier are a complete unknown, it's not hard to see a 2B a SS and a 3B all come out of this group.

 

Vielma, with any kind of hitting and decent OB could be a defensive difference maker and fun to watch. I've come around on Gordon, and am thinking he won't be great at anything, but good at everything, which could make him an ideal top of the order presence, or, a perfect flip the order bottom hitter at worst.

 

But the guy that frustrates me is Polanco. Not him personally, to be precise, but opinions on him. He was signed as a defensive player with a questionable bat. Now he's a quality bat but questionable defense. And I want to know why. I read some reports that say he can play SS at the ML level, then I hear other opinions that state he cant. But to be fair, the negative opinions I hear dont seem to come from the Twins or scouts, but MOSTLY from posters and media types that focus on his error totals.

 

As I recall, he not only is still only 22, and just reached AAA, but he also got moved around a bit and played a lot of 2B before moving back to being primarily a SS recently. Additionally...and hear I go repeating myself again...just a bit of casual research will show countless quality and top SS's with high teen and 20 error totals in the minors, as well as their early ML seasons. Errors aren't a good thing, but they don't necessarily mean someone can't play the position, play it well, and get better. Milb infields, milb teamates, aren't always ML quality to begin with. And what about trying too hard for big plays? Just learning to slow things down? Or even just polishing technique day after day?

 

With all due respect to EE, who I am a big fan of, a polished and presentable Polanco at SS in the near future is a HUGE boost to the overall lineup.

[alarp33]

 

Vielma. That defense is legit and I love the 35 steals last year. He doesn't have to hit to have an impact on the game, and he's young and skinny enough that the bat might still come around a little.

 

Can't steal 1st!

 

Gordon for me, and I don't think it's that close.  Because Polanco will be at 2B, or even 3B.  

[Mike Sixel]

 

So I take you are not a fan of Andrelton Simmons, who despite posting a 75 and a 86 OPS+ the past two years his WAR was 3.3 and 4.0, which means he was VERY valuable even with his poor bat. I'm not saying Vielma is Simmons but he does have a very good glove at SS. Having seen Palacios play this summer, his glove at SS was down right atrocious even with work he's probably better suited for 2b, 3b.

 

Odds he's the best defensive SS in all the game are slim, right? Let's say he's the 5th best defensively....how much better would his offense need to be to make up for that? I'm guessing a lot higher than a 75OPS+.

 

I think Gordon will be good at everything, but not necessarily great at any one thing. That's an under rated player, imo.