Terry Ryan- I am not a fan

[clone52]

 

Another Ryan flub up. Why not trade Plouffe? I do not get it

 

Because if Sano can't cut it at 3B, the Twins have NO depth at the position.

[clone52]

 

Also should be noted that with the money they are spending on: Nolasco, Hughes and Milone in 2016, they easily could have gotten a Cueto type pitcher instead and had room for May or someone in the rotation.

Stop signing mediocrity! Sign impact players!

 

A long term deal for Cueto would have been assinine for the Twins.  Sure, maybe get a couple of great years out of him, then have him as a $21m anchor as he declines in his mid-thirties.  Right at the time the Twins would probably be wanting to give contracts to Sano, Buxton, Rosario, Berrios, Stewart.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

A long term deal for Cueto would have been assinine for the Twins.  Sure, maybe get a couple of great years out of him, then have him as a $21m anchor as he declines in his mid-thirties.  Right at the time the Twins would probably be wanting to give contracts to Sano, Buxton, Rosario, Berrios, Stewart.

Any decent free agent signing is going to involve eating money on the back end of the contract. I have no problems replacing a bad 2018 Mauer contract with a bad 2019 Cueto contract. The Twins get a three year window of improved competition and it's likely they can still afford at least one of Sano/Buxton, maybe even both.

 

The Nolasco and Santana deals cannot end quickly enough for me.

[Kwak]

 

Agreed 100% on this. Hopefully that is the case. Hell, I wonder if Boston is already starting to worry about Fat Panda at 3rd?

 

As far as a return for Plouffe goes: I have said it before and will say it again, I would like them to  get back a couple high upside lottery ticket types in return, a low level catching prospect would be nice as well, but at this stage, I would take some prospects back for him in a heartbeat.

I guess we can thank our stars that we Twins fans don't have a fat Panda at 3rd.

 

"As far as a return for Plouffe...".  I limit my dreams to a white Christmas.

[alarp33]

 

Because if Sano can't cut it at 3B, the Twins have NO depth at the position.

 

Jorge Polanco?

 

Isn't it more likely that he could cut it at a position he has been playing for 4 years, than one he has never played?  What is the backup plan if he can't handle OF this Spring, send Park to AAA and forget about the "big" FA signing?

[CropDuster]

Personally, I believe Terry is one of the worst GM's in the game. He's way to old school and comes from the school of the Pohlad pocket protecting. The Twins are coming of the best year they've had since opening Target Field and the number one downfall to the team was the bullpen. Terry makes it really hard to believe in what he's doing when the only move he made is Brandon Kintzler, who probably won't even make the team. 

[howieramone2]

 

All I continue to hear from the pro Ryan crowd is excuse after excuse:

"Oh well nobody wanted Plouffe"
"Ryan didnt sign any real RP because we have young guys in the minors"

Etc

Ryan gets a solid D+ from me since he has been back, and a big fat F for this off season. Hopefully the farm system that Bill Smith helped build can bail him out (Sano, etc)

I give Ryan a solid A since he came back and a B for this off season. Who is Bill Smith?

[howieramone2]

 

Park will not be good, mark my words.

Park will be in the top 5 in ROY voting, and Murphy will be an All Star someday, mark my words.

[nater79a]

 

No third baseman brought back good value this offseason. None.

 

For sure. Arguably a notch below Plouffe, David Freese is even still out there as a free agent    Probably more than any other position, 3B has more supply than demand.

 

In a perfect world you'd flip Plouffe and open up 3B for Sano.  But for pennies on the dollar in return it just doesn't make sense.

[rghrbek]

 

"The Nolasco and Santana deals cannot end quickly enough for me."

 

I would add Hughes (now with the extension) to this list

[clone52]

 

Any decent free agent signing is going to involve eating money on the back end of the contract. I have no problems replacing a bad 2018 Mauer contract with a bad 2019 Cueto contract. The Twins get a three year window of improved competition and it's likely they can still afford at least one of Sano/Buxton, maybe even both.

 

The Nolasco and Santana deals cannot end quickly enough for me.

 

Nolasco will end shortly.  Which is why I think it wasn't a bad risk to take.  Nobody was really expecting last year to happen, so that 4 year contract for Nolasco was planned to be coming off the books just as all the young guns are coming on board.  Santana and Hughes are reasonably priced guys who can hopefully fill out the rotation.

 

Paying double or triple the price doesn't guarantee success either.  Cueto took a significant step back after moving to the AL last season.

[clone52]

 

Jorge Polanco?

 

Isn't it more likely that he could cut it at a position he has been playing for 4 years, than one he has never played?  What is the backup plan if he can't handle OF this Spring, send Park to AAA and forget about the "big" FA signing?

 

Yeah, Sano is probably more likely to handle 3B than OF, but he's pretty athletic, so I think he'll be alright in the OF.

 

As others have said, the Twins could have traded Plouffe for pennies on the dollar this winter and given Sano the 3B job.  As for the Backup plan if Sano bombs in RF, just trade Plouffe for pennies on the dollar this summer.  Its not like you are going to get much less for Plouffe if you trade him mid-season.  Plus, by keeping him to start the season, you have the opportunity that Sano is at least an average outfielder and you're good to go at 3B and RF.

[mazeville]

The Twins needed a STARTER? Why do people say that?

 

I'm not a fan of the Twins' offseason. Not really. I don't like Sano to the outfield. I think they should have traded Plouffe. I agree generally that they could have been more aggressive with the relief pitching. I'd have rather the Twins have kept Hicks. I think the Park signing, while finally demonstrating a willingness to go out and get foreign talent, is probably unnecessary given the presence of players like Arcia and Vargas and, before he was let go, Josmil Pinto.

 

BUT ... there is no way the Twins need another starter. As it is, the team has too many starters and one or two guys who are more or less guaranteed roster spots because of their salaries.

 

Phil Hughes, if he can return to form from 2014 (maybe, maybe not) is a top-end starter. Ervin Santana is solid. Kyle Gibson is solid. Tommy Milone is a decent back-end guy. Tyler Duffy was excellent as a rookie late last season. Trevor May SHOULD be starting. Jose Berrios deserves a shot this year. Ricky Nolasco will probably end up in the bullpen but could start, too. And remember that Alex Meyer is still there and just one year ago was considered the potential rotation savior.

 

That's like 8 billion starters. The team needs to shed starters, if anything. Oh, sure, there were lots of FA starters who would have been improvements. But they cost a ton of money and a lot of years and would have continued to hamstring the team when there are cheaper options coming up through the ranks. 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Nolasco will end shortly.  Which is why I think it wasn't a bad risk to take.  Nobody was really expecting last year to happen, so that 4 year contract for Nolasco was planned to be coming off the books just as all the young guns are coming on board.  Santana and Hughes are reasonably priced guys who can hopefully fill out the rotation.

 

Paying double or triple the price doesn't guarantee success either.  Cueto took a significant step back after moving to the AL last season.

The Nolasco contract didn't bother me at the time but it has been a disaster thus far.

 

The Santana contract bothered me more, as I felt the rotation was either good enough as-is or it needed one significant upgrade. Straddling the fence with a somewhat expensive #3 pitcher didn't impress me.

[clone52]

 

Any decent free agent signing is going to involve eating money on the back end of the contract. I have no problems replacing a bad 2018 Mauer contract with a bad 2019 Cueto contract. The Twins get a three year window of improved competition and it's likely they can still afford at least one of Sano/Buxton, maybe even both.

 

The Nolasco and Santana deals cannot end quickly enough for me.

 

Except that the Twins hopefully will need that money for Sano, Buxton, Rosario, Berrios, maybe Polanco, Trevor May, Kohl Stewart, Max Kepler, etc.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

 

"The Nolasco and Santana deals cannot end quickly enough for me."

 

I would add Hughes (now with the extension) to this list

 

I didn't like the Hughes extension but I dislike it less than the Santana contract.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Except that the Twins hopefully will need that money for Sano, Buxton, Rosario, Berrios, maybe Polanco, Trevor May, Kohl Stewart, Max Kepler, etc.

None of those guys get enough of a pay raise to matter before 2019-2020.

[clone52]

 

None of those guys get enough of a pay raise to matter before 2019-2020.

 

And in 2020 and 2021 you'd have a washed up Johnny Cueto on the books.  Right when you are signing those guys.  Kind of my point.

[dxpavelka]

 

May is not a starter, Milone is bad JMO. Gallardo and Latos are easy 3, Gallardo possibly a 2 in our system. Pains me to watch Baltimore make moves while we sit here and get guys like Park (lol)

May IS a starter and this organization's failure to treat him as such is only going to hold him, and the team, back.  If May, Berrios & Gibson aren't penciled in to the top three spots in the rotation at this point a year from now we'll be looking at another sub .500 season. 

[clone52]

 

May IS a starter and this organization's failure to treat him as such is only going to hold him, and the team, back.  If May, Berrios & Gibson aren't penciled in to the top three spots in the rotation at this point a year from now we'll be looking at another sub .500 season. 

 

I think May could be a good start.  I know May is a Great reliever.  I'm good with him in the bullpen for now.

[nicksaviking]

 

I didn't like the Hughes extension but I dislike it less than the Santana contract.

 

Same for me, but only because Hughes was first. I wouldn't have cared much either way which one the Twins signed long-term, but I didn't want both.

 

I said at the time, that I applauded Ryan for his bold move in signing Nolasco, but I didn't like the pitcher. I'm still not going to criticize him for finally taking a risk, even if there were different risks I would have preferred.

[dxpavelka]

 

I think May could be a good start.  I know May is a Great reliever.  I'm good with him in the bullpen for now.

If this squad is going to contend they are going to need 3-4 guys from the farm to revitalize the bullpen.  Those guys are there but none of  them are starters.  May is.

[ScrapTheNickname]

 

Negativity has nothing to do with it. Or maybe you missed all the negative threads that aren't locked on this forum.

Support your arguments, avoid the "lol this guy sucks" posts and your threads will not be in danger of being locked.

It's not hard. Basically, act and debate like an adult and you'll be fine.

Thank you.

[DaveW]

 

Except that the Twins hopefully will need that money for Sano, Buxton, Rosario, Berrios, maybe Polanco, Trevor May, Kohl Stewart, Max Kepler, etc.

Sano, Buxton, Roasrio, Berrios etc aren't due a big payday until 2021 or later. Signing Cueto to even a 5 year contract this offseason doesn't prevent them at from keeping those guys around, since Cueto's contract would be up before any of those guys actually hit free agent years.....

[Loosey]

 

Also should be noted that with the money they are spending on: Nolasco, Hughes and Milone in 2016, they easily could have gotten a Cueto type pitcher instead and had room for May or someone in the rotation.

Stop signing mediocrity! Sign impact players!

I've heard people make this claim before (probably you) and it simply isn't true.  It isn't like the Twins are out there with a pile of money to spend on free agents and then if they decide not to spend it they just add it onto the next years free agent pile to make it bigger.  The $12M Nolasco is getting and $9M Hughes is getting wouldn't just roll over into the next season if they didn't make the signings.  The Twins take that money and put it towards their bottom line.  Then they start all over again the next season.  But I do understand what you are saying about not signing 3 mid -level contracts instead of one big one.  However this is the Twins way of diversifying their risk.  If one $25M a year guys fails they are out $25M.  But if you spend $25M on 3 guys and one is awful and two are serviceable then at least you got two serviceable guys out of the deal.  Unfortunately that's how the Twins operate.

[DaveW]

 

 

And in 2020 and 2021 you'd have a washed up Johnny Cueto on the books.  Right when you are signing those guys.  Kind of my point.

Those will still be the arb years (and in most cases early arb years) for the players you listed. Again, Cueto or any similar big signing doesn't prevent the Twins in the least from retaining Sano, Buxton etc

[DaveW]

 

 

I've heard people make this claim before (probably you) and it simply isn't true.  It isn't like the Twins are out there with a pile of money to spend on free agents and then if they decide not to spend it they just add it onto the next years free agent pile to make it bigger.  The $12M Nolasco is getting and $9M Hughes is getting wouldn't just roll over into the next season if they didn't make the signings.  The Twins take that money and put it towards their bottom line.  Then they start all over again the next season.  But I do understand what you are saying about not signing 3 mid -level contracts instead of one big one.  However this is the Twins way of diversifying their risk.  If one $25M a year guys fails they are out $25M.  But if you spend $25M on 3 guys and one is awful and two are serviceable then at least you got two serviceable guys out of the deal.  Unfortunately that's how the Twins operate.

It's not even 3 mid level contracts instead of one big one, it's 2 mid level contracts instead of one big one. You can sign a big name and still sign another mid level guy (Santana)

 

You could have Cueto (or even Price) +Santana or you could have Hughes+Nolasco+Milone+Santana for pretty much the same amount of coin.

 

To put it another way, which rotation looks better:

 

Cueto/Price

Santana

Gibson

Duffey

Berrios

 

or

 

Santana

Gibson

Hughes

Duffey

Milone

 

(Berrios is now waiting in the wings and Nolasco is just eating a roster spot)

[DaveW]

 

 

 

 

I said at the time, that I applauded Ryan for his bold move in signing Nolasco, but I didn't like the pitcher. I'm still not going to criticize him for finally taking a risk, even if there were different risks I would have preferred.

I'm not sure why signing Nolasco was some "bold" move, it was a mid level deal that nearly every other team seems to sign every year or so. It only seems like a bold move because TR was even more conservative his first time around.

[Loosey]

 

It's not even 3 mid level contracts instead of one big one, it's 2 mid level contracts instead of one big one. You can sign a big name and still sign another mid level guy (Santana)

 

You could have Cueto (or even Price) +Santana or you could have Hughes+Nolasco+Milone+Santana for pretty much the same amount of coin.

 

To put it another way, which rotation looks better:

 

Cueto/Price

Santana

Gibson

Duffey

Berrios

 

or

 

Santana

Gibson

Hughes

Duffey

Milone

 

(Berrios is now waiting in the wings and Nolasco is just eating a roster spot)

I get what you are saying and agree.  It's just the first part of your original comment I was disagreeing with.

 

The next problem is actually getting those types of players to sign here.  Say the Twins did offer Cueto $25M a year.  What's to stop him for then running of to the next team and use the Twins as leverage? 

[DaveW]

 

 

 

The next problem is actually getting those types of players to sign here.  Say the Twins did offer Cueto $25M a year.  What's to stop him for then running of to the next team and use the Twins as leverage? 

Come on, some people (not you) act like Minnesota is some waste land where no player would want to play.

 

Great city, good ballpark, good fans, and a team that is on the rise. While it may not be the "most popular" destination in baseball, it certainly is a good one. I just don't buy the stance that a top free agent would just "refuse" to sign with the Twins.