College sports exploits unpaid black athletes

[DaveW]

 

Generally, agents don't exploit their clients.  Sure, in some cases they might but usually agents have their clients best interests in mind.  Boras was the only person who was talking about Thor's longterm health (I think it was Thor, maybe the other great pitcher) when the Mets wanted to keep him pitching, for instance.

 

I do think the NCAA could set up a fair salary structure to compensate kids - I don't think it would be an bidding type thing.  I don't think paying only football players and basketball players, as the market dictates, would violate Title IX.  I'm not an expert but I'm pretty sure I read a few things about that when the O'Bannon lawsuit came out and the authors weren't overly concerned with Title IX.  

Yeah, agents aren't the ones who exploit athletes, its against their best business interests since they get a flat % of a players total earnings. Guys like Boras have done amazing things for his clients, the only ones who "dislike" them are the stingy owners/Pohlads of the world.

[DaveW]

I also think this exploits unpaid black athletes at a greater rate then white athletes. Just look at the major money makers for NCAA (basketball and football) now go check out the roster make ups in terms of race for any of the top 25 programs year in and year out. Now go check out the average economic backgrounds of said players.

 

The NCAA is a joke, and has been for some time. Each year I find myself caring less and less about college football, and college basketball (even March Madness is getting less and less interesting to me) They need to give ALL  scholarship FB and BB players a monthly stipend, additionally they should allow them all an additional 2 years of free schooling after their 4 years are up. So at that time some of them that don't make the pros etc can come back and focus on school full time and add onto a degree/work towards a second degree or a graduate degree.

[nicksaviking]

 

The fact that there are more black athletes in basketball and football doesn't make it racial. It's a race issue when those same black athletes are being accorded worse treatment than their white counterparts because of the color of their skin. They aren't. They are all being treated unfairly.

 

I stand by my original statement. College sports exploits athletes.  PERIOD. The NCAA doesn't care what the color of their skin is. Equating it to race is nothing more than poor journalism at best, stoking race flames where they don't exist in order to create controversy that isn't there. Look, there's real racism in this country.  I won't dispute that, but crap like this does more to stifle progress on the subject than it does bring awareness to it. If anything, it only fans the flames making it worse.

 

I agree. Otherwise it'd be the same as saying, 'New Wall Street/NASCAR/PGA regulations are really targeting white males.'

[TheLeviathan]

 

I also think this exploits unpaid black athletes at a greater rate then white athletes. Just look at the major money makers for NCAA (basketball and football) now go check out the roster make ups in terms of race for any of the top 25 programs year in and year out. Now go check out the average economic backgrounds of said players.

 

I think that's probably true, but the article is using the implication of race to make a point that I'm not sure is true.  While it's true that black athletes are more exploited in the money making sports, I don't think there is any intention by the NCAA to do that.  Suggesting the racial angle does imply that point, partly on purpose.  It gives the criticism more weight and bite to suggest a racial factor in the actions.

 

That's where the "play the race card" issue comes up, it's used in a situation in which it is not a causal factor to imply it is to give more weight to criticism.  I get it and I have no sympathy for the NCAA, but it is becoming a tired, overused way of getting a point across.

 

It also weakens the times when race really IS a causal factor.

[biggentleben]

 

I think that's probably true, but the article is using the implication of race to make a point that I'm not sure is true.  While it's true that black athletes are more exploited in the money making sports, I don't think there is any intention by the NCAA to do that.  Suggesting the racial angle does imply that point, partly on purpose.  It gives the criticism more weight and bite to suggest a racial factor in the actions.

 

That's where the "play the race card" issue comes up, it's used in a situation in which it is not a causal factor to imply it is to give more weight to criticism.  I get it and I have no sympathy for the NCAA, but it is becoming a tired, overused way of getting a point across.

 

It also weakens the times when race really IS a causal factor.

 

And in this case, race is the issue truly in primarily the money-making sports. Once you factor in all sports in the NCAA, racial balance is much more diverse. It's still not gen pop numbers, but athletes have skills that general population doesn't have in equal amounts either.

[mikecgrimes]

 

 now go check out the roster make ups in terms of race for any of the top 25 programs year in and year out. Now go check out the average economic backgrounds of said players.

 

 

 

On point one I haven't looked but if you looked at the season end top 25's for the last 3 seasons I bet we would be a lot closer to 50/50 (not including other races) then you think, starting lineups of top 10 sure, entire roster of top 25 not so much.  As for the second point among college black college athletes I have to imagine the economic background is well above average for the demographic.  Not all black people are poor, not all great athletes are black. 

 

It's the pro leagues that are the problem here by the way.  A High School senior can sign a big money contract after being drafted in the MLB or NHL but they can't in the NBA and NFL.  The argument can be made that it's unsafe for an 18 year old to be on an NFL field but the reality is maybe five 18 year olds see any major league action in Hockey and Baseball and yet they get to pay off mom and dads mortgage in dozens and dozens of cases if they want.

[DaveW]

 

I think that's probably true, but the article is using the implication of race to make a point that I'm not sure is true.  While it's true that black athletes are more exploited in the money making sports, I don't think there is any intention by the NCAA to do that.  Suggesting the racial angle does imply that point, partly on purpose.  It gives the criticism more weight and bite to suggest a racial factor in the actions.

 

That's where the "play the race card" issue comes up, it's used in a situation in which it is not a causal factor to imply it is to give more weight to criticism.  I get it and I have no sympathy for the NCAA, but it is becoming a tired, overused way of getting a point across.

 

It also weakens the times when race really IS a causal factor.

Oh I agree, I didn't need to read this article to "shape" my opinions towards the NCAA. The whole thing is broken, but I just think the African American athletes are suffering "more" (but to say that the NCAA has racial reasons for doing so is silly, I will give the NCAA this: they are ****heads to everyone equally)

[DaveW]

On point one I haven't looked but if you looked at the season end top 25's for the last 3 seasons I bet we would be a lot closer to 50/50 (not including other races) then you think, starting lineups of top 10 sure, entire roster of top 25 not so much.

I don't think so, and if you weight it against playing time its not going to come even close to 50/50.

 

 

 

It's the pro leagues that are the problem here by the way.  A High School senior can sign a big money contract after being drafted in the MLB or NHL but they can't in the NBA and NFL. 

Interesting to note that MLB and NHL are the two most "Caucasian" populated sports of the major ones.....hmmm

 

NFL has the perfect set up, the NCAA works as their "minor leauges" where they have to do nothing in return other than promising not to play games on Saturday.

 

Basketball: There is absolutely no reason why high school players shouldn't be allowed to go pro, what a joke.

[gunnarthor]

One of the problems in saying this isn't a racial issue becomes, then, what is a racial issue?  Outside of a cop using the N-word while beating a black man, what does someone think racism looks like today?  College football and basketball create billions of dollars of revenue from all sources.  Gambling, video games, advertisements, tv deals, bowl-agreements, etc.  And literally none of that goes to the people that actually perform on the field who are mostly young black men.  Their only official benefit is a paid scholarship, which doesn't cost the school anything to give.  As Mr. Yee noted, young black men are under-represented in colleges except in college sports.  

 

Our society is tolerating this because the victims are mostly young black men.  That's why it's a racial issue.  

[Vanimal46]

Basketball: There is absolutely no reason why high school players shouldn't be allowed to go pro, what a joke.

Nailed it. There's no reason* why elite talents need to wait until they're 19 to declare for the NBA draft. Im sure guys like Wiggins and Derrick Rose really learned a ton in their 1 semester on campus... Attending Intro to Psychology on test days and getting an A.

 

*Other than to spark interest in college basketball and pad the NCAA's wallet

[TheLeviathan]

 

Our society is tolerating this because the victims are mostly young black men.  That's why it's a racial issue.  

 

Our society tolerates it because we like sports and tolerate just about anything with them.  It doesn't matter what the sport is or what the issue is.  

 

To answer your first question - I'd say for something to be racism there should be some sort of either deliberate looking aside or deliberate intent.  This is about greed, not racism.

[Hrbowski]

 

Really need to just kill college athletics, and make school about school......but I don't see that happening any time soon. It is free training for the NBA and NFL, and makes lots of (the non-athletes and non-students) people rich......

And helps the athletes get richer. If the NFL was drafting players out of HS they would be giving much smaller amounts out in their contracts.

[Hrbowski]

 

I really disagree with your last two sentences.  The point the author was making, and that I agree with, is that if this was affecting young white men (or if old black men were the ones making money off of it) it would have been fixed years ago.  By refusing to accept that racism is a factor we can ignore how black men are disproportionately affected by the NCAA (while sports that are predominately dominated by black men can fund sports programs that have fewer black men).  You may be right that an faceless NCAA doesn't care who is being robbed but the fact that their victims are mostly young black men is definitely a reason those in power let it still happen.

It is not racist. Joey Bosa, Jared Goff, and Paxton Lynch are probably losing the most money of anyone, and they are all white.

[DaveW]

It is not racist. Joey Bosa, Jared Goff, and Paxton Lynch are probably losing the most money of anyone, and they are all white.

.....

[nicksaviking]

I don't think so, and if you weight it against playing time its not going to come even close to 50/50.

 

 

 

 

Interesting to note that MLB and NHL are the two most "Caucasian" populated sports of the major ones.....hmmm

 

NFL has the perfect set up, the NCAA works as their "minor leauges" where they have to do nothing in return other than promising not to play games on Saturday.

 

Basketball: There is absolutely no reason why high school players shouldn't be allowed to go pro, what a joke.

The NCAA has nothing to do with this, the pro leagues set an age limit to protect themselves. Minor League baseball and hockey were created long before these leagues were consumed with greed, they don't make money. The NFL and NBA don't create legit minor leagues because they'd cost money, not make it. (is the D-League legit? It almost certainly isn't profitable enough to expand or it would have by now)

 

The NBA and NFL set age limits to protect the teams because they know the idiots running the teams can't help themselves and draft youngsters with potential but can't play in the league yet. The NBA nearly killed its product before they put a stop to drafting HS kids.

 

I think it's stupid that they aren't able to manage this without rules, but I don't see the problem with it either. No one puts up a stink if a lawyer, pilot or dentist is required to meet certain eligibility requirements.

[gunnarthor]

 

Our society tolerates it because we like sports and tolerate just about anything with them.  It doesn't matter what the sport is or what the issue is.  

 

To answer your first question - I'd say for something to be racism there should be some sort of either deliberate looking aside or deliberate intent.  This is about greed, not racism.

This is probably a pretty good example of society looking aside.  At least that's how I and the author see it. 

[DaveW]

The NCAA has nothing to do with this, the pro leagues set an age limit to protect themselves. Minor League baseball and hockey were created long before these leagues were consumed with greed, they don't make money. The NFL and NBA don't create legit minor leagues because they'd cost money, not make it. (is the D-League legit? It almost certainly isn't profitable enough to expand or it would have by now)

 

The NBA and NFL set age limits to protect the teams because they know the idiots running the teams can't help themselves and draft youngsters with potential but can't play in the league yet. The NBA nearly killed its product before they put a stop to drafting HS kids.

 

I think it's stupid that they aren't able to manage this without rules, but I don't see the problem with it either. No one puts up a stink if a lawyer, pilot or dentist is required to meet certain eligibility requirements.

how exactly did the NBA almost kill its products? Ratings popularity has been up almost every year for the last 20-30 years. Plenty of high school guys went on to be amazing (Kobe, Garnett, ONeal, Lebron etc)

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

You can't really separate the race issue, in my opinion. It's baked into the cake. If you squint real hard I bet you will see a relationship between black participation in big collegiate sports and the wealth extracted from these sports. Wealth that goes to white folks. For example, here's a fact cited in the article: 86% of all athletic directors are white, and the big conferences with the highest paid ADs have had no black ones.

[biggentleben]

how exactly did the NBA almost kill its products? Ratings popularity has been up almost every year for the last 20-30 years. Plenty of high school guys went on to be amazing (Kobe, Garnett, ONeal, Lebron etc)

ONeal? You saying Jermaine was amazing? Shaq played college ball.

[Mike Sixel]

 

And helps the athletes get richer. If the NFL was drafting players out of HS they would be giving much smaller amounts out in their contracts.

 

Based on what? Baseball not doing that? Hockey not doing that? Elite players will get paid, no matter how old they are. What holds down salaries is the draft.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

You can't really separate the race issue, in my opinion. It's baked into the cake. If you squint real hard I bet you will see a relationship between black participation in big collegiate sports and the wealth extracted from these sports. Wealth that goes to white folks. For example, here's a fact cited in the article: 86% of all athletic directors are white, and the big conferences with the highest paid ADs have had no black ones.

minor edit- the article cited the big 5 conferences not having any conference commissioners, not ADs as I mistyped it. I highly recommend the article. We can argue about how much race plays into the exploitation. I've got to think exploitation in college sports is totally untenable.

[DaveW]

ONeal? You saying Jermaine was amazing? Shaq played college ball.

Yeah we have all seen blue chips.

 

Yes Jermaine ONeal was a very very good player. 6x all star.

[USAFChief]

I have a hard time getting too worked up about "exploitation" of those who voluntarily participate, and are "paid" the cost of a college education for the trouble.

 

Nobody is forcing anybody to play college sports.  

 

 

[gunnarthor]

 

I have a hard time getting too worked up about "exploitation" of those who voluntarily participate, and are "paid" the cost of a college education for the trouble.

 

Nobody is forcing anybody to play college sports.  

No, but 1) a lot of people are getting really rich off of it and not the players performing.  2) Most of these kids don't have other options.  With the exception of an 18 year old Hershal Walker, most young men couldn't play football in a pro league (even in Europe) against 25 year old guys.

 

I recall a year or so ago, the payment plan for writers at bleacher report was brought up and many people were bothered by it b/c a lot of writers would write tons of content for the website but get very little in return - it was where they were supposed to cut their teeth before making big money.  This is similar but on a much larger scale and a much greater pay difference.

 

As for the "pay" of college, the college gets far more in return for a years scholarship to the players. 

[TheLeviathan]

Again, the biggest victims are the non-athlete students.  Some of whom could give two craps about any of the athletics and yet fund them anyway.

[nicksaviking]

No, but 1) a lot of people are getting really rich off of it and not the players performing.  2) Most of these kids don't have other options.  With the exception of an 18 year old Hershal Walker, most young men couldn't play football in a pro league (even in Europe) against 25 year old guys.

 

I recall a year or so ago, the payment plan for writers at bleacher report was brought up and many people were bothered by it b/c a lot of writers would write tons of content for the website but get very little in return - it was where they were supposed to cut their teeth before making big money.  This is similar but on a much larger scale and a much greater pay difference.

 

As for the "pay" of college, the college gets far more in return for a years scholarship to the players.

 

But this is a national epidemic, and somehow it's just these athletes on TV playing games who are portrayed as the victims. In just about every vocation, the manual laborers do all the heavy lifting while the white collars reap the profits. Walmart employees, coal miners, migrant farmers, auto workers all have it worse. The athletes aren't getting paid but they also have the huge advantage of not having cost of living expenses that the lower class and largely uneducated laborers have.

[USAFChief]

Can we get a few of these exploited athletes to play for the Gophers?

 

Please?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

So there's no demand for college football or NCAA basketball?