Oswaldo Arcia

[Winston Smith]

I'm kind of amazed that Arcia, who has had some decent time at the ML level, is considered washed up by so many but Park who has never had an at bat in the ML is considered a lock to be good.

IMO, Arcia has a much better chance of having a good season than Park does.

[tobi0040]

 

I'm kind of amazed that Arcia, who has had some decent time at the ML level, is considered washed up by so many but Park who has never had an at bat in the ML is considered a lock to be good.

IMO, Arcia has a much better chance of having a good season than Park does.

 

I don't think that is the line of thought.  I think most think the Twins just made a multi year investment plus posting fee for Park, so he is getting the nod over Arcia.

[Kwak]

"Winning" Park in the posting auction was "a shot-in-the-dark".  There was no way they knew they would have the highest bid and they can't be certain of when or how much he will contribute.  Basically, Park is "an option"--the thing that Ryan speaks so highly of--"options".  The fact that Arcia was never promoted back to the Twins (even in September!) is illuminating--Arcia's star doesn't sparkle anymore.  He will have a decent chance at redemption but the lack of "options" combined with spotty performance has "taken its' toll".  It is doubtful he ends 2016 with the Twins.  1B isn't "in the cards" for Arcia--there are many other candidates who have actually played the position.  

[TheLeviathan]

 

I'm kind of amazed that Arcia, who has had some decent time at the ML level, is considered washed up by so many but Park who has never had an at bat in the ML is considered a lock to be good.

IMO, Arcia has a much better chance of having a good season than Park does.

 

We should be viewing this as a 1A and 1B situation, but the investment is leading us to think otherwise.

 

It likely is for the Twins as well.

[jokin]

 

I don't think we will see it either.  To think the market for Plouffe is low right now or we don't have leverage, just wait if Sano flops in the outfield come about April 20th.

 

If Sano to the OF is really the plan, the Twins get an F for this one.  Plouffe has been in our system for a decade and a pretty productive 3B for 2.5 years now.  We could have seen this one coming and at a bare minimum, gotten Sano at least somewhat comfortable in the OF in the minors.

 

It really is the plan- Mark This One Down- Sano will be in the starting lineup in the OF on opening day.*

 

And the lack of MiLB OF reps for Sano does look a lot like the Twins were/are just making it up as they go along.*

 

Pretty amateurish "plan".

 

 

*(waiting and hoping for the phone to ring on Plouffe...).

[jokin]

 

 

I don't think the Twins will count on one player backing up both SS and CF.  They should, but they won't.

 

Nunez can also back up @ SS.

[ThejacKmp]

 

I don't think we will see it either.  To think the market for Plouffe is low right now or we don't have leverage, just wait if Sano flops in the outfield come about April 20th.

 

If Sano to the OF is really the plan, the Twins get an F for this one.  Plouffe has been in our system for a decade and a pretty productive 3B for 2.5 years now.  We could have seen this one coming and at a bare minimum, gotten Sano at least somewhat comfortable in the OF in the minors.

 

Yeah but Plouffe wasn't the issue, signing Park was. If Park had not been signed you'd be talking about Sano playing DH when he isn't subbing in the field. No way the Twins could have known that Park was going to happen, that's not something you plan on.

 

So with that and Plouffe not getting much of a market, giving Sano a shot in the outfield is not a bad idea. If he handles it great. If it looks bad on April 20th, then the Twins have more information about Park and Mauer and Plouffe and can make tough decisions. Never bad to have too many good players.

[ThejacKmp]

 

A professional hitter??  He is like 22 years old and he is going to have the whole game flipped upside down so that they can keep Plouffe, Park and Mauer all in the lineup all at the same time, none of which are gold glove fielders by any stretch.  How many 22 year olds do you know and how secure with themselves are they.  Now take that 22 year old and put him in a foreign country and make him take a job he has never done before or is not comfortable doing it and your telling me that nothing can go wrong??  I hope you are right.  But needless to say, I am not stretching out too far by being very skeptical of this whole thing. 

 

I know many 22 year olds but none of them are elite professional athletes - unless you call beer pong a sport? Sano is not just any 22 year old, he's a mature professional hitter (not sure how you can have been through last year and not say he's a professional hitter). We all watched his at bats last year, he looked sure of himself and went into each at bat with a plan. Even his strikeouts rarely looked bad, the process just didn't work out that time. Fielding a new position won't change that - again, I can't think of any player whose batting suffered because of his fielding, it's always the other way around. 

 

And he's been playing baseball his entire life, has been in the U.S. for 6 years and knows the guys he works with - this isn't like making me a telemarketer in Brazil all of a sudden. He has the same teammates and coaches, he is assured of a spot in the lineup almost no matter what and while OF and 3B are not the same, it's not like we're asking him to go play linebacker. It's a lot of the same skills.  And he doesn't have to be elite, just not awful (remember, the guy he is likely competing with is Arcia, a horrible defender).

 

It's easy to be a skeptic and say that things won't work out - you get to say "I told you so" when it goes badly and no one remembers when it goes well. Let's be a bit more optimistic and realize that no one could plan for what happened here and the Twins are taking a measured gamble that could pay off very handsomely. Their coaching staff, whose job is to know the players, thinks that Sano has a chance to be okay out there. I'm going with the professional coaches over the guys able to use a keyboard.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I'd be a bit cautious in assuming Sano is simply going to improve on last year. He may, and I even think that's likely, but he may struggle. There will be a book on him in 2016, and he is going to have to make adjustments. All major leaguers do. Given his track record, I think he's likely going to be fine, but sometimes that kind of stuff can take a guy down for a few months (or an entire season). Sano wouldn't be the first elite prospect to have success and then struggle the following season.

 

As for Arcia, I'm really happy that he seems committed this offseason. I really hope that this commitment is more than just BP and hitting the weight room, but also working on his OF defense, where he desparately needs to improve. The kid played CF for a bit in the minors. Yeah, I know it was rookie ball, but there's no reason to think he cannot be an average defender in his 20s. He's athletic enough to do it.

[tobi0040]

 

Yeah but Plouffe wasn't the issue, signing Park was. If Park had not been signed you'd be talking about Sano playing DH when he isn't subbing in the field. No way the Twins could have known that Park was going to happen, that's not something you plan on.

 

 

Nobody forced us to bid on the guy.  Had we not bid, I am pretty sure we would not have won.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Nobody forced us to bid on the guy.  Had we not bid, I am pretty sure we would not have won.

 

Yeah and even after they won, they didn't have to sign him. But that's besides the point. The Park signing (especially for the terms) was amazing and no one should regret it. The real point is that the Twins had no way to know it was going to work out (you don't plan around winning posting bids) and before Park, there was no reason to trade Plouffe - he and Sano could coexist very nicely (though of course if you got blown away with an offer, you didn't NEED Plouffe, he was going to be shopped).

 

Once they got Park, the Twins did everything right. They shopped Plouffe but didn't get a good offer.  They didn't panic at that point and sell low, realizing that keeping Plouffe was the better option. They are now going to try Sano in the outfield (a place the Twins staff, professional baseball coaches paid to understand their players' abilities, think he can be acceptable). They have all of spring training (and the offseason workouts in Fort Meyers) to get an idea if they are right. If not, they can make the same trades they have available now or figure out who of Mauer/Plouffe/Park to bench or how to shuffle those guys in and out of the lineup (no way that Sano isn't going to play at least 5-6 times a week). Health is not a given nor is Park being ready for the Majors right away so the Twins have admirable depth at 1B/3B/DH (not even taking Arcia/Vargas into consideration).

 

The Twins played this process perfectly and it's asinine to complain that they should have done things differently. I'm just so sick of people raking TR and the Twins through the coals on every decision because it's so much fun to naysay and nitpick. They had a curveball thrown to them when they won Park and they've done everything right since. The 3B market played out differently than they hoped and they didn't panic trade Plouffe. They know where they have value and they have plans and contingencies set up if those plans don't work. It's time to trust the Twins process, it's worked pretty well so far.

 

The main thing this comes down to is "What would you realistically want to change?"  Not win Park? That's insane, value is value. Trade Plouffe? That's insane, you don't sell low based on your hopes for Park/Sano's performance and health. Make Mauer/Plouffe your OF? There's no indication that either would be better than Sano (and of course you still have that option if you need it) and you'd weaken 1B/3B defense. Viva los Twins!

[Eephus]

 

I know many 22 year olds but none of them are elite professional athletes - unless you call beer pong a sport? Sano is not just any 22 year old, he's a mature professional hitter (not sure how you can have been through last year and not say he's a professional hitter). We all watched his at bats last year, he looked sure of himself and went into each at bat with a plan. Even his strikeouts rarely looked bad, the process just didn't work out that time. Fielding a new position won't change that - again, I can't think of any player whose batting suffered because of his fielding, it's always the other way around. 

 

And he's been playing baseball his entire life, has been in the U.S. for 6 years and knows the guys he works with - this isn't like making me a telemarketer in Brazil all of a sudden. He has the same teammates and coaches, he is assured of a spot in the lineup almost no matter what and while OF and 3B are not the same, it's not like we're asking him to go play linebacker. It's a lot of the same skills.  And he doesn't have to be elite, just not awful (remember, the guy he is likely competing with is Arcia, a horrible defender).

 

It's easy to be a skeptic and say that things won't work out - you get to say "I told you so" when it goes badly and no one remembers when it goes well. Let's be a bit more optimistic and realize that no one could plan for what happened here and the Twins are taking a measured gamble that could pay off very handsomely. Their coaching staff, whose job is to know the players, thinks that Sano has a chance to be okay out there. I'm going with the professional coaches over the guys able to use a keyboard.

I definitely come down on the side of Sano should be able to play an adequate (and probably better than average) outfield. It's not like he's switching to catcher. He might not be a gold glover, but I think it safe to assume a relatively mobile, adequate third basemen (especially for someone with apparent athleticism of Sano) can effectively field balls to the outfield and get the ball into the infield with some zip on it.  

[ThejacKmp]

 

I definitely come down on the side of Sano should be able to play an adequate (and probably better than average) outfield. It's not like he's switching to catcher. He might not be a gold glover, but I think it safe to assume a relatively mobile, adequate third basemen (especially for someone with apparent athleticism of Sano) can effectively field balls to the outfield and get the ball into the infield with some zip on it.  

 

Oh man, if he's average that would be amazing, a huge pickup for the Twins. I'd settle for "not-disastrous" or "slightly above Arcia". I also think that this situation is a half year thing. Either an injury or a trade at the deadline (if Kepler is pushing up to the majors and Park/Mauer/Sano are all playing well, Plouffe will go at the deadline when some contending team will value that they can get a year and a half of control at a position of need) is going to shuffle the Twins fielding up a bit. And that's a good thing - the Sano to the OF thing just buys the Twins time to make sure that Park is a major league regular and to let the more-active in-season trade market open up (offseason teams have internal options they've talked themselves into and every free agent seems like the solution - halfway through the year some of those fail and teams are more desperate hopefully).

 

Little risk, tons of reward for this approach.

[Eephus]

And, probably more on topic, I don't think the problem with Arcia is emotion in the clubhouse. His problem is he's a headcase at the plate. He has a strong tendency to feel "dissed" by any pitch even remotely inside. He responds to this by staring at the pitcher and then swinging his ass off. That's his problem. He needs to chill so he can think straight, not so that he fit in in the clubhouse. 

[tobi0040]

And, probably more on topic, I don't think the problem with Arcia is emotion in the clubhouse. His problem is he's a headcase at the plate. He has a strong tendency to feel "dissed" by any pitch even remotely inside. He responds to this by staring at the pitcher and then swinging his ass off. That's his problem. He needs to chill so he can think straight, not so that he fit in in the clubhouse.

I think he has two issues. He can't play defense, nor hit lefties. So he is a corner platoon that hurts you half the time

[diehardtwinsfan]

I'm sure that when they bid on Park, the question of how the team would play out was certainly discussed. I highly doubt that Sano to the OF was something that came up after Park/Hicks.  I suspect it was an option all along. I also think they planned on trading Plouffe, but given what the offers have been so far, they are content to keep him. Not sure I like that, but if that's how the cards play out, then they don't have a choice.

[jorgenswest]

I think he has two issues. He can't play defense, nor hit lefties. So he is a corner platoon that hurts you half the time

Some teams value a guy who can hit righties with a good arm in the corner.

 

I think the Twins do also. He played through two injuries in winter ball last year and the back injury persisted. He then injured a hip early in the season. He tried to play through and I think the injuries to the core altered his mechanics. Working in Florida the winter rather than going home to play winter ball is the best path towards getting back on his career path.